OSAS- Once Saved Always Saved

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When OSAS is used to replace Sacred (biblical) Tradition and the bride of Christ who is personified in the Catholic Church. OSAS becomes a new doctrine invented by men.

If? OSAS is a phrase that celebrates life being lived out in Christ Jesus, and is used only to express ones faith in Jesus Christ for saving us, this faith crosses all borders of Christians.

OSAS is never a divine revelation to our humanity and should not be used to discredit or neglect the teachings of Jesus Christ to follow His commandments in obedience to His key holder (Peter) on earth and Jesus magisterial body who hold to Jesus as Lord, King and Savior of the world.

Peace be with you
 
mackbrislawn said:
. Now, I don’t see how we can infer that others like Nicodemus* did* think Jesus to be the Messiah.
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Jesus uses plural “we” believe, that is other Jews in this discourse.
But again, because Jesus refers to Nicodemus as the teacher of Israel, Nicodemus stands in for Israel as a whole, and Jesus is here letting it be known that Israel as a whole has a need to be born again. (Because Jews thought that they, they, being Jews, did not need the additional birth. So, this is news to them!)
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That could be true, but as a secondary insight of context. Don’t think it is primary context for one simple reason…his entire ministry is to Jews primarily , and Jews are being baptized by John, and later the apostles…so it is first an individual call in this discourse…difficult to see an entire nation as “born again”
Now, are you saying, in the part I underlined above, that some of the persons who heard Jesus’ word, saw the kingdom and then some not, was because some were already born from above and some still carnal? That’s why? That is quite a new idea. Because Jesus acts as though Nicodemus and his other Pharisees should have known, even while they were still carnal.
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yes, any believers were born again, either before John the baptist or during his ministry or during the Lord’s ministry.

Don’t think you can surmise they should have known Godly truths regardless of being born of spirit or born only of flesh. I think what Christ was saying is that you would hope a leader of Israel, a rabbi , would be born of the spirit, but obviously, circumcision and bar mitzvah and a life dedicated to God is not guarantee…all righteous works , or works of law …did not give them a spirit to believe in Jesus.

Scripture does not mention of Peter or of the apostles being baptized, nor mention when they became born from above. We do assume they did at some point, which is not told in scripture. And whether or not Peter was carnal when he was informed by the Father that Jesus was the Messiah, we can only form opinions. Is whether a person be carnal or not a precondition for being taught by God?No , but one thing is taught, and another is “caught”…I mean Nicodemus knew a lot but…I do not think the flesh can believe righteously…the spirit must be regenerated to believe correctly…I take Peter at his word, he believed , and not like Satan believes also, but put his life in Christ…it was all Peter heart ,spirit and mind…not just mental assent or a "false’’ confession.

Blessings
 
spedteacherita said:
I’ve seen this term used often in the Non-Catholic Religions forum and I’m curious as to how people define this.

My understanding of OSAS is that a person who becomes a Christian (is “saved”) does not have to do anything from then on…that’s an extreme position but I’ve known people who subscribe to this philosophy.

As a Lutheran I don’t agree with this position. I know that we must be penitent for our sins, confess them to our Lord, be in the Word, get baptized, and regularly take the Lord’s Supper as well as part of corporate worship. Those are a lot of things to do but those are all done as a result of the Holy Spirit working in my life through Christ and because of Christ’s final sacrificial atonement on the cross.

How do you and/or your denomination define/describe OSAS? Very curious here.

***Don or Jon or any other conservative Lutheran - feel free to add or take away. Sometimes my mind doesn’t express as clearly as it used to. 🤷

Blessings, all!

Rita
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My question: Since one is saved and can never lose his or her salvation, then why even bother to pray, go to Sunday services, read the Bible, etc? If one has an absolute one-way ticket, why even bother with formalities?
 
Nicea325 said:
My question: Since one is saved and can never lose his or her salvation, then why even bother to pray, go to Sunday services, read the Bible, etc? If one has an absolute one-way ticket, why even bother with formalities?
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And of course the flip side; If one’s can lose their salvation, then why even bother to do anything but pray and attend services and ever put Writ down. If the ticket can be rescinded with one misstep, why bother with any earthly, unspiritual formalities ?

Blessings Nicea
 
LatinRight said:
FIRST: God only performs heart transplant on His children/elect and their heart transplants to fail is a theological impossibility.

**SECOND: **God newer performs heart transplant on the reprobates who are predestined to hell from all eternity for their vehement rejection of God and His grace, they cannot even have a valid baptism, their names taken out from the Book of Life from all eternity. – DE FIDE.

**FOURTH: **I was spiritually dead and now I’m spiritually alive and I know the difference between the two because the Holy Spirit is burning in my new heart (I’m not presume it I feel it), I have sweet unspeakable joy because I know God built me into His Holy Temple in heaven and I know Christ is in me and I in Christ. – Eph.2:21-22; etc.

LatinRight
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I would just let you know that these are Calvinist or Jensenist doctrine, both of which are either condemned or disagreed by Catholic teaching.
 
benhur said:
And of course the flip side; If one’s can lose their salvation, then why even bother to do anything but pray and attend services and ever put Writ down. If the ticket can be rescinded with one misstep, why bother with any earthly, unspiritual formalities ?

Blessings Nicea
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To confirm your election.
 
benhur said:
And of course the flip side; If one’s can lose their salvation, then why even bother to do anything but pray and attend services and ever put Writ down. If the ticket can be rescinded with one misstep, why bother with any earthly, unspiritual formalities ?

Blessings Nicea
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Blessings!

Unfortunately, there is a big difference wit the flip side. One side is Biblical and the other is completely unbiblical.

I am a lot more concerned of losing it and doing all the formalities, in order not lose it; as oppose to believing one can never lose it and have no worries at all.

God Bless you
 
Nicea325 said:
Blessings!

Unfortunately, there is a big difference wit the flip side. One side is Biblical and the other is completely unbiblical.

I am a lot more concerned of losing it and doing all the formalities, in order not lose it; as oppose to believing one can never lose it and have no worries at all.

God Bless you
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God bless Nicea and every readers of the CAF.

According to your post, seems like you have a great concern that you may lose your Initial Justification and might end up in hell.

**There are two group of people in Catholic theology as follows:
  1. YET UN-REGENERATED/CARNAL GROUP OF PEOPLE**
**THE SPIRITUAL POSITION OF AN UN-REGENERATED/CARNAL MAN

Rom.8:6-8;**
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

1 cor.2:14;
But the natural man does not receives the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

2. THE OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE RECEIVED GOD’S GIFT OF INITIAL JUSTIFICATION / THE SPIRITUAL GROUP – PREDESTINED TO HEAVEN

THE COUNCIL OF TRENT Session 6 CHAPTER VII
… justification itself, which is not only a remission of sins but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man through the voluntary reception of the grace and gifts whereby an unjust man becomes just and from being an enemy becomes a friend.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

**THE FOLLOWING TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH MAYBE HELPFUL FOR YOU NICEA

The Catholic Church affirms predestination as a *DE FIDE *Dogma (the highest level of binding theological certainty).

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

THE CATHOLIC DOGMA. – The predestination of the elect.**

Consequently, the whole future membership of heaven, down to its minutest details, has

been IRREVOCABLY FIXED FROM ALL ETERNITY. Nor could it be otherwise. For if it

were possible that a predestined individual should after all be CAST INTO HELL or that

one not predestined should in the end REACH HEAVEN, then God would have been

MISTAKEN in his foreknowledge of future events; He would NO LONGER be omniscient.

God’s unerring foreknowledge and foreordaining is designated in the Bible by the beautiful

figure of the “Book of Life” (liber vitæ, to biblion tes zoes). This book of life is a list which

contains the names of ALL THE ELECT and admits NEITHER ADDITIONS NO ERASURES.

(2) The second quality of predestination, the DEFINITENESS of the number of the elect,

follows NATURALLY from the first. For if the eternal counsel of God regarding the

predestined is UNCHANGEABLE, then the number of the predestined must likewise be

UNCHANGEABLE and DEFINITE, subject NEITHER to ADDITIONS nor to

CANCELLATIONS. Anything indefinite in the number would eo ipso imply a lack of

certitude in God’s knowledge and would DESTROY His omniscience. End quote.

I believe, according to your post Nicea until this point you are fine, you have received God’s gift of Initial Justification and you are predestined to heaven.

I believe, if you are un-regenerated and not predestined to heaven, heaven couldn’t even come up into your mind. – Your desire to live in heaven, because God put it into your mind for the reason.

Continue
 
Continuation

About your reason to work I have a great concern that your work is not up to the standard of good works/supernatural works (works of love), and at the judgment of your works, your works will be rejected by God and you will enter to heaven without reward.

This is a great loss, because our position and glory in heaven is determined by God according to the outcome of our works.

Disclaimer: I’m not a judge. I have only concern about for the reason you are working Nicea.

As follows you can test your works Nicea, and I believe we all should test our works.

**CONDITIONS THAT OUR WORKS (OUR DEEDS) COUNT FOR ANYTHING

Conditions MUST BE PRESENT to make SUPERNATURAL MERIT possible.**

The meritorious work must be morally good, that is, in accordance with the moral law in its

object, intent, and circumstances.

It MUST be done FREELY, WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY.

It MUST be SUPERNATURAL, that is, AROUSED and ACCOMPANIED by ACTUAL

GRACE, and proceeding from a SUPERNATURAL motive.

Strictly speaking only a person in the STATE OF GRACE can merit, as defined by the
Church (Denzinger 1576, 1582).

JUSTIFICATION IN CATHOLIC TEACHING by Jimmy Akin

Quote: “The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT

BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER

LOVE for the other person, whether that person is God or one of our fellow human beings out of the love of God.

This is THE ONLY KIND of love that ultimately pleases God and therefore the ONLY

KIND that ultimately gets us a reward IN heaven.” End quote. Emphasis added.

**If we not set free to love freely, ** we cannot love.

**If we not set free to freely decide to work, ** we cannot do supernatural work/merit.

We cannot please God with the work we MUST do, because we cannot do it FREELY,

WITHOUT any EXTERNAL COERCION or INTERNAL NECESSITY. **– The work we

MUST do is NOT supernatural work, because we do it for our own interest!!!**

Continue
 
Continuation

**SUPERNATURAL WORKS / WORKS OF LOVE IS: **

Doing something, DECIDED FREELY without the fear of hell,

**works done **NOT BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW,

**but because **we want to do it out of SHEER LOVE for the Glory of God, or help other person out of sheer love.

THE KEY TO UNDERSTAND SUPERNATURAL WORKS / WORKS OF LOVE

“The essence of supernatural love is unselfishness—doing something NOT

BECAUSE IT WILL HELP US SOMEHOW, but because we want to do it out of SHEER

LOVE for an other person or for the GLORY OF GOD.

The works we must do, we do it for our own interest, this works contains no love neither for God, nor for other person.

The works we do out of SHEER LOVE for the person or for the GLORY OF GOD contains love, this is called, works of love.

The only our work is good work/supernatural work which contains love for God or for others – WORKS OF LOVE.

This is the only WORKS OF LOVE rewarded by God at the judgment of our works (1 Cor.3:12-15).

For easy understanding consider, our works as a vessel which contains the love which given through our works to God’s Glory or to others. – God rewards the love that the work/vessel contains.

The work done for our own interest contains neither love for God nor love for others, this works are NOT WORKS OF LOVE!!!

And as far as God’s rewards concern, these works are empty works/vessels, wood, hay and straw, goes up in smoke at the judgment.

THE WAY OF THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR SUPERNATURAL WORKS / WORKS OF LOVE

If we work for the reason to achieve our salvation that is not good works/supernatural works.

If we work for the reason to keep our salvation that is not good works/supernatural works.

If we work for the reason to get reward in heaven that is “usury,” it is not good works/supernatural works.

God bless Nicea and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight
 
benhur said:
And of course the flip side; If one’s can lose their salvation, then why even bother to do anything but pray and attend services and ever put Writ down. If the ticket can be rescinded with one misstep, why bother with any earthly, unspiritual formalities ?

Blessings Nicea
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True. Every word you said is true, one can lose salvation but the answer is not WHY bother to do anything but pray, but you must bother to pray and attend services, and confess your sin, because by his death on the cross, Christ gave power to Priests through Holy Orders to forgive sins.

And why bother with unspiritual formalities? Which the answer to that is one should not. And because we choose these unspiritual formalities we put ourself of loosing our salvation.
 
Nicea325 said:
My question: Since one is saved and can never lose his or her salvation, then why even bother to pray, go to Sunday services, read the Bible, etc? If one has an absolute one-way ticket, why even bother with formalities?
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Exactly. And if you do not mind my :twocents: why would Christ give his Apostles to forgive sin? There would be no reason if one could not lose Salvation.

Another one why did St Paul he was not even sure of his own Salvation. We know he believed in the death of Christ for the forgiveness of sin.
 
Nicea325 said:
Blessings!

Unfortunately, there is a big difference wit the flip side. One side is Biblical and the other is completely unbiblical.

I am a lot more concerned of losing it and doing all the formalities, in order not lose it; as oppose to believing one can never lose it and have no worries at all.

God Bless you
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Hi N,

Well, both extremes are unbiblical, not worrying at all, or worrying too much. That was my point. I don’t think no worries or do nothing is representatives of OSAS, just as worrying and confirming endlessly is not what you suggest either. There is a balance of confirming your election and resting in His Work. We are not to take His salvation for granted nor are we to “look a gift horse in the mouth” so to speak, that is, under appreciate it’s efficacy.’

Blessings
 
benhur said:
Hi N,

Well, both extremes are unbiblical, not worrying at all, or worrying too much. That was my point. I don’t think no worries or do nothing is representatives of OSAS, just as worrying and confirming endlessly is not what you suggest either. There is a balance of confirming your election and resting in His Work. We are not to take His salvation for granted nor are we to “look a gift horse in the mouth” so to speak, that is, under appreciate it’s efficacy.’

Blessings
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Point is noted and respected my friend. Any particular Protestant faith community you belong to? Just asking.
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
When OSAS is used to replace Sacred (biblical) Tradition and the bride of Christ who is personified in the Catholic Church. OSAS becomes a new doctrine invented by men.

If? OSAS is a phrase that celebrates life being lived out in Christ Jesus, and is used only to express ones faith in Jesus Christ for saving us, this faith crosses all borders of Christians.

OSAS is never a divine revelation to our humanity and should not be used to discredit or neglect the teachings of Jesus Christ to follow His commandments in obedience to His key holder (Peter) on earth and Jesus magisterial body who hold to Jesus as Lord, King and Savior of the world.

Peace be with you
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God bless Gabriel and every readers of the CAF.

Do you believe Gabriel, or any Catholic brother or sister, is it a possibility that a member of the Bride of Christ, predestined to heaven can lose his or her salvation and end up in hell?

God bless Gabriel and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight
 
Gabriel_of_12 said:
When OSAS is used to replace Sacred (biblical) Tradition and the bride of Christ who is personified in the Catholic Church. OSAS becomes a new doctrine invented by men.

If? OSAS is a phrase that celebrates life being lived out in Christ Jesus, and is used only to express ones faith in Jesus Christ for saving us, this faith crosses all borders of Christians.

OSAS is never a divine revelation to our humanity and should not be used to discredit or neglect the teachings of Jesus Christ to follow His commandments in obedience to His key holder (Peter) on earth and Jesus magisterial body who hold to Jesus as Lord, King and Savior of the world.

Peace be with you
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**God bless Gabriel and every readers of the CAF.

Another separate question:**

Do you believe Gabriel, or any readers of the CAF, is it a possibility that the Lord Jesus Christ who is King and Savior of the World, able to fulfil His mission and save the Whole World – ALL CREATION including every member of the entire human race?

Rom.8:19-21;
19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.
20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

**Eph.1:10; **
In the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.

**Col.1:20; **
And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

God bless Gabriel and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight
 
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