OSAS .... per John MacArthur.

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John Mac is teaching OSAS this week … on his radio program.

For him, Eternal Security / Salvation Assurance is not synonyous with OSAS. For OSAS to be valid, one must be spiritually reborn & Persevere to their End.

So, he teaches OSAS = Rebirth + Perseverance. Not much different than what the Catholics believe. Except, he says all those Reborn … will persevere, w/o exception. He takes his viewpoint primarily from Gospel of John … saying Christ guarantees to deliver all those who are reborn of H.S. to the Father. Rebirth guarantees perseverance, because Christ cannot fail to deliver those who once chose him, to the Father. A believer can fall back into serious sin, yet they will never deny Christ or his Gospel when push comes to shove. In otherwords, if pressed to chose Christianity vs Secular life, they will always make right choice, repent, and return to their original faith. They will always return again… as Prodigal Sons/Daughters.

Catholics don’t see such a guarantee in scripture. But, it may only be because Catholics might claim we can’t be sure about one’s Rebirth. Catholics don’t seem to differentiate true believers from other type believers. And, Catholics don’t see in scripture that those with past faith will ALWAYS be given a final opportunity to repent of their mortal sinning.

I’ll be listening carefully to hear what he says on next two days … and will modify this topic accordingly, if he further adds to his OSAS beliefs.

Has John Mac made a critical error in his reading of scripture ?
 
brb3 said:
John Mac is teaching OSAS this week … on his radio program.

For him, Eternal Security / Salvation Assurance is not synonyous with OSAS. For OSAS to be valid, one must be spiritually reborn & Persevere to their End.

So, he teaches OSAS = Rebirth + Perseverance. Not much different than what the Catholics believe. Except, he says all those Reborn … will persevere, w/o exception. He takes his viewpoint primarily from Gospel of John … saying Christ guarantees to deliver all those who are reborn of H.S. to the Father. Rebirth guarantees perseverance, because Christ cannot fail to deliver those who once chose him, to the Father. A believer can fall back into serious sin, yet they will never deny Christ or his Gospel when push comes to shove. In otherwords, if pressed to chose Christianity vs Secular life, they will always make right choice, repent, and return to their original faith. They will always return again… as Prodigal Sons/Daughters.

Catholics don’t see such a guarantee in scripture. But, it may only be because Catholics might claim we can’t be sure about one’s Rebirth. Catholics don’t seem to differentiate true believers from other type believers. And, Catholics don’t see in scripture that those with past faith will ALWAYS be given a final opportunity to repent of their mortal sinning.

I’ll be listening carefully to hear what he says on next two days … and will modify this topic accordingly, if he further adds to his OSAS beliefs.

Has John Mac made a critical error in his reading of scripture ?
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You know what, it is getting closer and closer to what the Catholics believe in. Soon enough it might even be the same!
 
John MacArthur is an anti-Catholic bigotten loon. I wouldn’t give his writings or sermons or radio show one second of my time! He’s managed to tick off and anger most of the Protestant world against him. Even they think he’s a wacko.
 
A couple of (personal) observations:
  1. Increasingly I get the impression from John MacArthur that the only person saved for certain is John MacArthur.
  2. From a Lutheran perspective, MacArthur’s preaching has all of the bad news of Law without any of the good news of the Gospel.
  3. I also find that MacArthur’s preaching is not that different from core Catholic (non-ecclesial) doctrine, except that it lacks completely its love and compassion. He impresses me as the pinnacle of cold, logical, Reformed theology.
  4. I’ve seen nothing to convince me that OSAS isn’t a farce. It’s supposed to give one assurance of being chosen and loved by God (and thus nurture faith). But if I can THINK I’m saved but still have to worry if I have the real faith that perseveres, what kind of assurance is that? I can never be sure I’m saved, because I can always be shown to never have had real faith from the start. Not that different from the Catholic (or Lutheran) idea of falling away from faith, really. MacArthur absolutely beats on his audience to convince them they don’t have genuine fruits of true faith, and offers nothing to help them spark or nurture faith in a loving God.
MacArthur is a truly remarkable man, but I can hardly bear to listen to him anymore. I guess I just need a higher ratio of God’s love to God’s wrath to keep from losing hope.
 
He’s definitely put his own slant on Reformed Calvinist theology. And you’re correct that it’s all MacCarthur-centric. He’s the pope.

He’s said this about Catholics: “a Satanic religious system that wants to engulf the earth.” He’s gone on record as saying Catholics are by no means Christians even remotely. He’s ripped apart guys like Rick Warren, Schuler, and other evangelists, too. He likes Calvinism, on his terms. He thinks you can cure psychological problems with “Biblical counseling.” God only knows what that entails with Johnny! He has blasted pentecostals as not really having the gift of tongues, and he’s alienated just about every group under the son. Some of his teachings have seemed like works-based salvation, other times his “hyper Calvinist” rants go the other way. I saw him on CNN one time on Larry King Live (probably one of very few times I’ve ever watched ole Larry) and I was appauled at his statements about Catholics that are out in the open. Scary guy. In the end Macarthur’s religion is just that, his own, and it constantly changes around his own views, pope John Mac.
JerryS said:
A couple of (personal) observations:
  1. Increasingly I get the impression from John MacArthur that the only person saved for certain is John MacArthur.
  2. From a Lutheran perspective, MacArthur’s preaching has all of the bad news of Law without any of the good news of the Gospel.
  3. I also find that MacArthur’s preaching is not that different from core Catholic (non-ecclesial) doctrine, except that it lacks completely its love and compassion. He impresses me as the pinnacle of cold, logical, Reformed theology.
  4. I’ve seen nothing to convince me that OSAS isn’t a farce. It’s supposed to give one assurance of being chosen and loved by God (and thus nurture faith). But if I can THINK I’m saved but still have to worry if I have the real faith that perseveres, what kind of assurance is that? I can never be sure I’m saved, because I can always be shown to never have had real faith from the start. Not that different from the Catholic (or Lutheran) idea of falling away from faith, really. MacArthur absolutely beats on his audience to convince them they don’t have genuine fruits of true faith, and offers nothing to help them spark or nurture faith in a loving God.
MacArthur is a truly remarkable man, but I can hardly bear to listen to him anymore. I guess I just need a higher ratio of God’s love to God’s wrath to keep from losing hope.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
In the end Macarthur’s religion is just that, his own, and it constantly changes around his own views, pope John Mac.
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That is his ACE ! He can & does alter his beliefs. He is malleable, and always seeking the truth. Yes, he is hardheaded and dogmatic to a fault. But, just like Paul … he is a zealot. God loves a zealot … seeking the truth.

If the right Catholic apologetic was presented to him, he would consider it and might well convert. Is anything or anyone too difficult for Christ to conquer ? Lets pray for him to receive Catholic illumination, his conversion would really turn some Protestant heads.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
John MacArthur is an anti-Catholic bigotten loon. I wouldn’t give his writings or sermons or radio show one second of my time! He’s managed to tick off and anger most of the Protestant world against him. Even they think he’s a wacko.
Click to expand...
LOL. I second that sentiment.
 
JerryS said:
A couple of (personal) observations:
  1. Increasingly I get the impression from John MacArthur that the only person saved for certain is John MacArthur.
Click to expand...
LOL
  1. From a Lutheran perspective, MacArthur’s preaching has all of the bad news of Law without any of the good news of the Gospel.
Click to expand...
Amen, brother. Lutheran = Law/Gospel; Rome = Law; Calvinism = Law/Gospel/Law/Law/Law/Law
 
TriuneUnity said:
Amen, brother. Lutheran = Law/Gospel; Rome = Law; Calvinism = Law/Gospel/Law/Law/Law/Law
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This is so unfair ! The RCC is first and foremost about Grace … and thereafter, about our receiving grace from God to follow the Beatitudes, living the two greatest commandments taught by Christ to his Christian flock.

And, John Mac is not big on legalism. His theme is GRACE to YOU. John is a genuine, spirit-filled Christian … who unfortunately is confused [as are you] on the RCC.
 
Today, in Part 2, John Mac supported his ideas on OSAS using 1st Peter as his Proof Text. [1st Peter, 1:3-25] He made a strong case in support thereof. I think the best way to give credence to his belief, is from the viewpoint of Predestination.

But, I can only see OSAS being true, from God’s perspective. We don’t have the knowledge to have God’s certitude about others. Thus, John Mac err’s when he expresses doubts about another’s salvation, or the validity of the RCC for example.
 
brb3 said:
This is so unfair ! The RCC is first and foremost about Grace … and thereafter, about our receiving grace from God to follow the Beatitudes, living the two greatest commandments taught by Christ to his Christian flock.
And, John Mac is not big on legalism. His theme is GRACE to YOU. John is a genuine, spirit-filled Christian … who unfortunately is confused [as are you] on the RCC.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
brb3 said:
Today, in Part 2, John Mac supported his ideas on OSAS using 1st Peter as his Proof Text. [1st Peter, 1:3-25] He made a strong case in support thereof. I think the best way to give credence to his belief, is from the viewpoint of Predestination.
Click to expand...
I hold to predestination. The Calvinistic rationalism of double predestination and OSAS is thoroughly heterodox.
 
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