OSAS

[The_Question]

Embarassing for ME? Defend your faith and answer my questions please.

Talk in a few months? As if it takes more than 2 minutes to re-read Romans 6? Are you serious?

Talk to me when you read the rest of scripture on the matter:

[continued]

James

I wrestled seriously with that issue years ago and examined every one of those scriptures along with the ton of vss that clearly teach eternal security. The issue you and others are afflicted with is called legalism (see my signature and read the Galatians). You can read Rom 6 in a minute. You will not understand it until you cry out to God to show you what grace is all about.

Meanwhile, here are a few of the great verses that tell true believers their Father is one who, once they are in His family, will keep them to the end and make sure they never turn from Him…

Jeremiah 32:38-41 (Concerning the Promise of the New Covenant) “They will be my people, and I will be their God. I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me for their own good and the good of their children after them. I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.”
1John 2:19, 1John 3:6,9 (as explained above)

John 5:24 “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.”

John 6:37 “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.” (Combine this with Jeremiah 32:40 above)

John 10:28 “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.”

Romans 6:8 “Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.”

Romans 8:9-10 “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.”

Notice the Calvinistic idea of the Perserverence of the Saints. If you belong to Christ, then the Spirit lives in you. And if the Spirit lives in you, the your general outlook and your lifestyle is not controlled by yourself (loss of free-will), but is controlled by the Holy Spirit. In which case, as it says in Rom 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” or if you prefer the King James “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (such a condition is automatically satisfied for those who belong to Christ as Rom 8:9,10 mention).
Romans 8:28-30 “And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.”
1Cor 1:8,9 “He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.”

1Cor 3:15 “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

1Cor 3:11-15 is the judgment that true believers face. Though all such people have eternal life, yet some will be rewarded more than others based on their performance. This is not a contradiction of John 5:24 which says that such people have already passed through the judgment, as the “judgment” it is referring to in that verse is the Great White Throne judgment in which unbelievers will be cast into hell. In the judgment here, it is not the person, but his works which will be burned up.
2Cor 1:21,22 “Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.”
Ephesians 1:5 “he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will–”

Ephesians 1:11 “In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,”

Eph 1:13,14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession-- to the praise of his glory.”

Hebrews 7:25 “Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.”

1Pet 1:3-5 “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade-- kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.” (xref Eph 1:14)

1John 5:4 “for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.”

 

[rinnie]

everyone wants to go to heaven, i have yet to meet someone who says that hell is where they want to spend eternity. so the age old question, how can i have eternal life?

can one be sure of salvation?

does one live on the edge of falling to either side of the line?

Jesus said the road would be narrow, so how does one know the road they are on is the one that leads to heaven?

**Luke 18:18 An official asked him this question, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 Jesus answered him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 20
You know the commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother.’”

21 And he replied, “All of these I have observed from my youth.”

22 When Jesus heard this he said to him, “There is still one thing left for you: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

23 But when he heard this he became quite sad, for he was very rich.

24 Jesus looked at him (now sad) and said, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

26 Those who heard this said, “Then who can be saved?”

27 And he said, “What is impossible for human beings is possible for God.”

28 Then Peter said, “We have given up our possessions and followed you.”

29 He said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 who will not receive (back) an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.”**

I have not read this whole thread so I apologize. But my answer is no. There is no where in the bible thats states we cannot lose salvation. The opposite is true. Yes Jesus saved us from original sin by the cross. But we can fall into sin, with actual sin, and if we do not repent and quit the sin, we die in sin, and if you die in sin especially mortal sin, you will not have Salvation. If you have mortal sin, you soul is in grave danger. You cannot get into heaven with mortal sin! Hope that helps.

 

[The_Question]

I think you mean our own “old” selves died? But even so, that’s not accurate. Not at Calvary. Calvary gives everyone’s old self the capacity to die, but it does not die simply by virtue of Christ’s death and resurrection. The old self dies when we are born again in water and spirit (faith and baptism). The Spirit within us then gives to us (through Grace) the capacity to see the good works laid out before us which we must cooperate with (be obedient to) throughout our lives. As for the rest of your post, I’ll reply in a few minutes. In the meantime, James has given you plenty to chew on revealing just how NON-instantaneous salvation is.

God Bless

I have studied that passage, along with related passages, for about 20 years. I memorized Rom 6 back then. That doesn’t prove I am correct, of course. But there is a whole lot more to Rom 6-8 than you have yet discovered. Once you understand the text, you will see it is impossible for ANYONE who is born again to ever be lost. They are brand new creatures in literal union with God. That is why Paul says in Rom 8 that there is NO CONDEMNATION any more. Gone, my friend.

 

[SteveGC]

I feel for people who don’t understand what exactly happened at the cross. Not only were ALL our sins, past, present and future punished, but Rom 6 makes it clear THE OLD MAN DIED at the cross! Therefor it is IMPOSSIBLE for someone who is truly saved to ever perish. If you don’t understand Rom 6, better get busy studying it. It’s not light reading; it’s not milk. But it pronounces the deathknell to the possibility of a born again child of God being anywhere except under the love and care of his heavenly Father for eternity. You can argue otherwise, but you’ll have to take scissors to that chapter (and Rom 8 as well!) If you don’t understand key passages like that, you can argue all you want and think it makes sense…always the peril of ignoring the whole counsel of God’s word.

Well, lets just see how “clear” Romans 6 is…

Romans 6
1 What then shall we say? Shall we persist in sin that grace may abound? Of course not!
2 How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

Already in the first 2 verses we see that those who have “died to sin” are capable of “persisting in sin”, otherwise why would Paul admonish them not to do so?
3 Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.
And here’s baptism, literally…making the “old man die”, and creating newness of life.
5 For if we have grown into union with him through a death like his, we shall also be united with him in the resurrection.
Ah, here’s the word “IF”, denoting that there is a conditional aspect to our union with Christ.
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him, so that our sinful body might be done away with, that we might no longer be in slavery to sin.
IF we have died with Him (baptism and faith)
7 For a dead person has been absolved from sin.
IF we have died with Him
8 If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him.
This one even says it plainly…“IF”
9 We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him.
10 As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God.
11 Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as (being) dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus.
He “lives”, not lived. We must think of ourselves “living” for God, not “have lived” for God. All this points to a necessity for endurance to the end.
12 Therefore, sin must not reign over your mortal bodies so that you obey their desires.
Sin MUST not reign. Not “should” not reign. It carries salvific consequences if it does. Again, Paul’s talking to believers here.
13 And do not present the parts of your bodies to sin as weapons for wickedness, but present yourselves to God as raised from the dead to life and the parts of your bodies to God as weapons for righteousness.
14 For sin is not to have any power over you, since you are not under the law but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not!
God’s grace gives us the strength, but clearly it is up to us to cooperate and not allow sin to take hold.
16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
Ah, a believer can become obedient to sin, leading to death. Interesting.
17 But thanks be to God that, although you were once slaves of sin, you have become obedient from the heart to the pattern of teaching to which you were entrusted.
18 Freed from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness.
Wait, this seems to support your position that believers are already saved. hold the phone…
19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your nature. For just as you presented the parts of your bodies as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness for lawless ness, so now present them as slaves to righteousness for sanctification.
Oops, Paul keeps admonishing them to take action (“present their bodies as slaves to righteousness”)…which shows that they AREN’T already saved.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free from righteousness.
21 But what profit did you get then from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now that you have been freed from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit that you have leads to sanctification, and its end is eternal life.
“Leads to sanctification”…not “has resulted in your sanctification”
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

It is clear, that although there is cherry-picking of a verse or two here that could support that a believer is already saved, there are several more that insist salvation is a process throughout life. Because of the appearance of a “mixed” message here (or even better, when read in full context), it is quite safe to assume that salvation cannot be instantaneous and absolute while a believer is still alive. It is perilous to assume otherwise.

All that and no scissors

God Bless

 

[The_Question]

Well, lets just see how “clear” Romans 6 is…

It is clear, that although there is cherry-picking of a verse or two here that could support that a believer is already saved, there are several more that insist salvation is a process throughout life. Because of the appearance of a “mixed” message here (or even better, when read in full context), it is quite safe to assume that salvation cannot be instantaneous and absolute while a believer is still alive. It is perilous to assume otherwise.

All that and no scissors

God Bless

Anyone can post their interpretation of a text. The question is, does that interpretation harmonize with God’s word elsewhere.

By the way, I never said that a Christian can’t persist in sin. But since you brought it up, NOTICE THIS–WHAT DOES PAUL SAY IN VERSE 1 WILL HAPPEN IF “WE” (BELIEVERS) CONTINUE IN SIN??? READ IT–GRACE WILL INCREASE! READ IT.

I suggest you keep studying.

 

[rinnie]

Anyone can post their interpretation of a text. The question is, does that interpretation harmonize with God’s word elsewhere.

By the way, I never said that a Christian can’t persist in sin. But since you brought it up, NOTICE THIS–WHAT DOES PAUL SAY IN VERSE 1 WILL HAPPEN IF “WE” (BELIEVERS) CONTINUE IN SIN??? READ IT–GRACE WILL INCREASE! READ IT.

I suggest you keep studying.

What does that have to do with losing salvation? Just because there is no sin that can separate us from Jesus by his grace IF we repent does not mean that we cannot lose Salvation. What is his Grace. Simple Confession! So all that says is that is we repent our sin, and confess them and quit doing them Grace trumps sin. It certainly does not say sin all you want because we have the Grace of God.

 

[SteveGC]

Anyone can post their interpretation of a text. The question is, does that interpretation harmonize with God’s word elsewhere.

That’s a clever way of not addressing my commentary on Romans 6. Nevertheless, I think the answer to your question is ‘yes’. I think you you will find that that interpretation will harmonize nicely with “God’s Word elsewhere”

By the way, I never said that a Christian can’t persist in sin. But since you brought it up, NOTICE THIS–WHAT DOES PAUL SAY IN VERSE 1 WILL HAPPEN IF “WE” (BELIEVERS) CONTINUE IN SIN??? READ IT–GRACE WILL INCREASE! READ IT.

I suggest you keep studying.

So, you’re suggesting that believers are protected unto salvation from the moment of their professed faith because, if they continue to sin, God’s grace will increase and keep them saved???

What a sloppy bit of exegesis that is. Or, I should say, eisegesis. If that’s true, why does Paul in the very next sentence say “of course not”? Further, the latter part of Romans 5 is what’s being referenced here. Within it, the power of God’s grace is being compared to the power of sin, namely that sin is no match. It is not suggesting that grace increases simply by virtue of sin occurring. THAT is why Paul says in Rom 6:1 “of course not”. That verse is speaking to people just like you who make the mistake of thinking that his comparison of grace and sin suggests that grace automatically follows sin.

Let’s not get silly here.

 

[rinnie]

Anyone can post their interpretation of a text. The question is, does that interpretation harmonize with God’s word elsewhere.

By the way, I never said that a Christian can’t persist in sin. But since you brought it up, NOTICE THIS–WHAT DOES PAUL SAY IN VERSE 1 WILL HAPPEN IF “WE” (BELIEVERS) CONTINUE IN SIN??? READ IT–GRACE WILL INCREASE! READ IT.

I suggest you keep studying.

Plainly SteveGC has showed you that if you fall to sin you die, The only way to become alive in Christ again is of course through Grace through confession and repenting of the sin. If you walk in sin, how can you walk then in Christ, and if you walk in sin, how can you have Salvation. Clearly you chose sin, not God. You chose sin, you lose salvation. The scripture could not be more clear.

 

[rinnie]

So, you’re suggesting that believers are protected unto salvation from the moment of their professed faith because, if they continue to sin, God’s grace will increase and keep them saved???

What a sloppy bit of exegesis that is. Or, I should say, eisegesis. If that’s true, why does Paul in the very next sentence say “of course not”? Further, the latter part of Romans 5 is what’s being referenced here. Within it, the power of God’s grace is being compared to the power of sin, namely that sin is no match. It is not suggesting that grace increases simply by virtue of sin occurring. THAT is why Paul says in Rom 6:1 “of course not”. That verse is speaking to people just like you who make the mistake of thinking that his comparison of grace and sin suggests that grace automatically follows sin.

Let’s not get silly here.

Amazing! Huh, Could you imagine to think the more we sin, the closer to God we become. Go figure! Because that is what they are trying to make this say. But they cannot, it makes no sense. When we fall into sin, we fall from Grace, which means we fall from God. How can we do that and have eternal life with him.

 

[SteveGC]

Amazing! Huh, Could you imagine to think the more we sin, the closer to God we become. Go figure! Because that is what they are trying to make this say. But they cannot, it makes no sense. When we fall into sin, we fall from Grace, which means we fall from God. How can we do that and have eternal life with him.

Hi rin.

It all stems from the foundational (erroneous) belief that we lose free-will upon our profession of “true” faith. Another John Calvin in our midst here that believes our dunghill bodies are not only “covered” by God, but are also put on holy autopilot for the rest of our earthly lives. Here we go again…(eh, James?)

 

[The_Question]

What does that have to do with losing salvation? Just because there is no sin that can separate us from Jesus by his grace IF we repent does not mean that we cannot lose Salvation. What is his Grace. Simple Confession! So all that says is that is we repent our sin, and confess them and quit doing them Grace trumps sin. It certainly does not say sin all you want because we have the Grace of God.

Again, my friend, when you understand the true nature of the new birth and what happened at the cross–to the old man and to his sins–it becomes a non-issue. It is simply GRACE–the kind of grace we would expect from our gracious God who sacrificed his Son for us. THERE SIMPLY IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST–THE VERY POSSIBLITY IS GONE FOR ALL ETERNITY. Ask God to show you what grace is and then you will know why we sing “Amazing Grace” and “Blessed Assurance” You will also know why Paul was cursing (literally) those who teach a ‘gospel’ that doesn’t embrace true grace!!

 

[The_Question]

[from prior]

Titus 1:2 - Paul says that he is in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life. Paul knows that his hope is a guarantee if he perseveres, but his ability to choose sin over God makes his attainment of eternal life less than an absolute certainty until it is actually achieved.

Titus 2:13 - awaiting our blessed “hope,” the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:7 - Paul says we have been given the Spirit so we might become heirs in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life.

Heb. 3:6 - we are Christ’s house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our “hope” (not our certainty).

Heb. 6:11 - we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of “hope” (not certainty) until the end.

Heb. 6:18 - we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the “hope” (not the certainty) that is set before us.

Heb. 6:19 - we have a “hope” that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone before us.

Heb. 7:19 - on the other hand, a better “hope” (not certainty) is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Heb. 10:23 - let us hold fast the confession of our “hope” without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

Heb. 11:1 - now faith is the assurance of things “hoped” for (not guaranteed), the conviction of things not seen (heaven).

Heb. 12:1 – let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us.

Heb. 12:15 – see to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God; that no root of bitterness spring up and cause trouble, and by it many become defiled.

James 1:12 - we must endure trial and withstand the test in order to receive the crown of life. It is not guaranteed.

1 Peter 1:3 - by His mercy we have been born anew to a living “hope” through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

1 Peter 1:13 - set your “hope” (not assurance) fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 1:21 - through Him you have confidence in God, who raised him from the dead so that your faith and “hope” are in God.

1 Peter 2:2 - like newborn babes, long for spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation. How can you grow up to something you already possess?

1 Peter 3:15 - always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who calls you to account for the “hope” that is in you.

1 John 3:3 - and everyone who thus “hopes” in Him purifies himself as He is pure. These verses teach us that we must cooperate with God’s grace and persevere to the end to be saved. We can and do have a moral certitude of salvation if we persevere in faith, hope and love.

More here: scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html

James

By the way, you need to do a little study on what the word ‘hope’ means in the NT. It is not, “I hope so”. Rather, it means a confident certainty.

 

[rinnie]

Again, my friend, when you understand the true nature of the new birth and what happened at the cross–to the old man and to his sins–it becomes a non-issue. It is simply GRACE–the kind of grace we would expect from our gracious God who sacrificed his Son for us. THERE SIMPLY IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST–THE VERY POSSIBLITY IS GONE FOR ALL ETERNITY. Ask God to show you what grace is and then you will know why we sing “Amazing Grace” and “Blessed Assurance” You will also know why Paul was cursing (literally) those who teach a ‘gospel’ that doesn’t embrace true grace!!

Then how about you explain this one to me.

1 Cor 9:24-27 Paul states clear as day that we CAN LOSE SALVATION. The word disqualified in greek translates to Adokimos which means Cut off from Christ. How can we be cut off from Christ and still be saved?

When you can explain that to me I will be waiting.

 

[rinnie]

Again, my friend, when you understand the true nature of the new birth and what happened at the cross–to the old man and to his sins–it becomes a non-issue. It is simply GRACE–the kind of grace we would expect from our gracious God who sacrificed his Son for us. THERE SIMPLY IS NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST–THE VERY POSSIBLITY IS GONE FOR ALL ETERNITY. Ask God to show you what grace is and then you will know why we sing “Amazing Grace” and “Blessed Assurance” You will also know why Paul was cursing (literally) those who teach a ‘gospel’ that doesn’t embrace true grace!!

Who is saying we can’t be saved from Grace? Quite the opposite Roman Catholic’s know quite well we are saved by Grace. Why don’t you show me the scripture that says we cannot fall from Grace. What the devils in too? Are you saying he is saved. Because you can be assured of one thing the devil believes. He know’s that Jesus died on the Cross and came back. He is afraid of Jesus. He knows the Power he has. And he knows he can never beat Jesus, only one way, is he knows the Love Jesus has for us. So he can only hurt him by turning us against him because we have free will. But please don’t tell me you believe that the devils getting in too. And can’t tempt us.

 

[The_Question]

Then how about you explain this one to me.

1 Cor 9:24-27 Paul states clear as day that we CAN LOSE SALVATION. The word disqualified in greek translates to Adokimos which means Cut off from Christ. How can we be cut off from Christ and still be saved?

When you can explain that to me I will be waiting.

Sorry, but that is not what adokimos means.
Here it is from a Greek lexicon–
Definition
not standing the test, not approved
properly used of metals and coins
that which does not prove itself such as it ought
unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

But if you look at the context (always an essential part of sound hermeneutics), you will see that Paul is talking about not wanting to be disqualified for service as an apostle. He is by no means talking about salvation.

 

[Philthy]

The Question;:

Guys, when you get salvation right, then you’ll get the DURATION of salvation right. They are inseparably linked!

Hello The Question! :yup:

Im not sure why you bothered to quote all my questions to Jerry and then not bother to answer even one of them.

What you have done is “begged the question”, no? I mean the question is - “What is the duration of salvation during our earthly lives?” You have simply offered your opinion without a shred of authority, Scripture, historical Christianity, or logic to back it up. No offense, friend, but “talk is cheap” and I could simply say, “right back at you , - when you get salvation right you’ll get the duration of salvation right!”.
See how ineffectual it is coming from me? Thats how weak it is coming from you!
Perhaps you should begin, like Jerry did, by revealing why you believe salvation is “once and forever”.

blessings

 

[rinnie]

Sorry, but that is not what adokimos means.
Here it is from a Greek lexicon–
Definition
not standing the test, not approved
properly used of metals and coins
that which does not prove itself such as it ought
unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

But if you look at the context (always an essential part of sound hermeneutics), you will see that Paul is talking about not wanting to be disqualified for service as an apostle. He is by no means talking about salvation.

Would Unfit for not mean cut off.

So okay lets put it this way if we are not fit for heaven would that not mean we could lose salvation?

And Paul is clearly speaking of his own Salvation. Why would he say All this I do for the sake of the gospel so that I too may have a share in it! Share in what being a apostle, makes no sense. He meant salvation.

Again if you are unfit for the kingdom of heaven you are cut off.

 

[The_Question]

Would Unfit for not mean cut off.

So okay lets put it this way if we are not fit for heaven would that not mean we could lose salvation?

And Paul is clearly speaking of his own Salvation. Why would he say All this I do for the sake of the gospel so that I too may have a share in it! Share in what being a apostle, makes no sense. He meant salvation.

Again if you are unfit for the kingdom of heaven you are cut off.

Bro, (are you?) look at the chapter. Paul is talking about his role as role as an apostle and his desire to have rewards and blessing as such.

Do you know for sure that you have experienced the “once saved”, so that you can talk authoritatively about the “always saved”? Just probing a little here.

 

[SteveGC]

Sorry, but that is not what adokimos means.
Here it is from a Greek lexicon–
Definition
not standing the test, not approved
properly used of metals and coins
that which does not prove itself such as it ought
unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

thanks for proving rin’s point…“not approved” means still saved? “reprobate” too?? Let’s see…

rep⋅ro⋅bate   /ˈrɛprəˌbeɪt/ noun, adjective, verb, -bat⋅ed, -bat⋅ing.
–noun 1. a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate.
2. a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation.

Hmm.

But if you look at the context (always an essential part of sound hermeneutics), you will see that Paul is talking about not wanting to be disqualified for service as an apostle. He is by no means talking about salvation.

Rubbish. “sound hermeneutics”?? Really?

*1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. *

Let’s work backwards (vss 27 back to 24) Paul doesn’t want to be a reprobate; so he disciplines his body for what? To have focus, and purpose. For what? To receive an imperishable wreath, the prize (clearly salvation). How? By winning the race (clearly implying perserverance from a combination of God’s Grace and one’s own effort).

I know you mean well, but again…we’re borderline on silliness here.

God Bless

 

[The_Question]

thanks for proving rin’s point…“not approved” means still saved? “reprobate” too?? Let’s see…

rep⋅ro⋅bate   /ˈrɛprəˌbeɪt/ noun, adjective, verb, -bat⋅ed, -bat⋅ing.
–noun 1. a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person: a drunken reprobate.
2. a person rejected by God and beyond hope of salvation.

Hmm.
Rubbish. “sound hermeneutics”?? Really?

*1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win.
25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. *

Let’s work backwards (vss 27 back to 24) Paul doesn’t want to be a reprobate; so he disciplines his body for what? To have focus, and purpose. For what? To receive an imperishable wreath, the prize (clearly salvation). How? By winning the race (clearly implying perserverance from a combination of God’s Grace and one’s own effort).

I know you mean well, but again…we’re borderline on silliness here.

God Bless

Paul is talking about his apostleship.
You embrace a works salvation which is another gospel. Therefor working to keep your salvation fits perfectly for you.

“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!”–Gal 1:6-9