OSAS

[Jerry_Marino]

well my catholic friends, you all say it is my theology? i don’t know nothing of theology, i only read what is written in God’s word and have posted comments from a catholic site.

anyway, i will turn back to the bible and quote once more God’s word:

In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory. But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

ephesians 1:13-14, 2 corinthians 1:21-22

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are given security in Christ by none other than God Himself!

"Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal."

john 6:27

here Jesus is stating something very profound, He is telling us not to work for food that perishes but for eternal food that He will give us. He concludes this verse by stating that God has set His seal on Him, the same seal we receive upon believing. here are some more statements from the Bible that talk of security:

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

john 6:37-40

what is the will of the Father that Jesus should not lose anything that the Father has given Him and be raised on the last day. again, what is the will of the Father? that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life and be raised.

my friends put yourself at the receiving end of this opening statement from Jude 1 & 2:

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

he tells us who he is and to who he writing to: those who are called. then he tells that God the Father is keeping us safe for Jesus Christ. it is there my friends God keeps those who are called by Him and we respond in faith and repentance trusting Christ for our salvation.

He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began

one thing i will point out here that paul and those he is writing to are still alive and some of you have stated that we are working toward salvation. here in 2 timothy 1:9 he clearly states his assurance of salvation and how it is obtained. saved is the word he uses, past tense meaning it is a done deal and not from our works mind you but by grace bestowed on us in Jesus Christ.

say what you want of my ‘theology’ but i am sure that i am saved.

God bless you

 

[rinnie]

well my catholic friends, you all say it is my theology? i don’t know nothing of theology, i only read what is written in God’s word and have posted comments from a catholic site.

anyway, i will turn back to the bible and quote once more God’s word:

In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory. But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

ephesians 1:13-14, 2 corinthians 1:21-22

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are given security in Christ by none other than God Himself!

"Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal."

john 6:27

here Jesus is stating something very profound, He is telling us not to work for food that perishes but for eternal food that He will give us. He concludes this verse by stating that God has set His seal on Him, the same seal we receive upon believing. here are some more statements from the Bible that talk of security:

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

john 6:37-40

what is the will of the Father that Jesus should not lose anything that the Father has given Him and be raised on the last day. again, what is the will of the Father? that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life and be raised.

my friends put yourself at the receiving end of this opening statement from Jude 1 & 2:

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

he tells us who he is and to who he writing to: those who are called. then he tells that God the Father is keeping us safe for Jesus Christ. it is there my friends God keeps those who are called by Him and we respond in faith and repentance trusting Christ for our salvation.

He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began

one thing i will point out here that paul and those he is writing to are still alive and some of you have stated that we are working toward salvation. here in 2 timothy 1:9 he clearly states his assurance of salvation and how it is obtained. saved is the word he uses, past tense meaning it is a done deal and not from our works mind you but by grace bestowed on us in Jesus Christ.

say what you want of my ‘theology’ but i am sure that i am saved.

God bless you

All true scripture Jerry, but not one word says you can be in sin and grace at the same time. When you answer that question and quit ignoring it we can talk. But you continue to ignore scripture if it does not pertain to your concept of salvation. Tell me Jerry if we cannot lose Salvation why must we confess and repent? Any ideas? Please don’t go by your theory of if you are saved you will not sin, because no man is without sin, the bible tells us that. So why not anwer my question show me Jerry how can a man sin and be in complete pure grace at the same time? You never did answer me, I have asked a thousand times.

 

[paul_c]

well my catholic friends, you all say it is my theology? i don’t know nothing of theology, i only read what is written in God’s word and have posted comments from a catholic site.

anyway, i will turn back to the bible and quote once more God’s word:

In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory. But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

ephesians 1:13-14, 2 corinthians 1:21-22

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are given security in Christ by none other than God Himself!

"Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal."

john 6:27

here Jesus is stating something very profound, He is telling us not to work for food that perishes but for eternal food that He will give us. He concludes this verse by stating that God has set His seal on Him, the same seal we receive upon believing. here are some more statements from the Bible that talk of security:

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

john 6:37-40

what is the will of the Father that Jesus should not lose anything that the Father has given Him and be raised on the last day. again, what is the will of the Father? that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life and be raised.

my friends put yourself at the receiving end of this opening statement from Jude 1 & 2:

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

he tells us who he is and to who he writing to: those who are called. then he tells that God the Father is keeping us safe for Jesus Christ. it is there my friends God keeps those who are called by Him and we respond in faith and repentance trusting Christ for our salvation.

He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began

one thing i will point out here that paul and those he is writing to are still alive and some of you have stated that we are working toward salvation. here in 2 timothy 1:9 he clearly states his assurance of salvation and how it is obtained. saved is the word he uses, past tense meaning it is a done deal and not from our works mind you but by grace bestowed on us in Jesus Christ.

say what you want of my ‘theology’ but i am sure that i am saved.

God bless you

Jerry, this is the danger of reading scripture without understanding the Doctrinal concepts that underly it. You pull out scriptural tidbits that on their own seem to support your theology but if you looked at all scripture together, you would find you are in error. To read scripture correctly, you need to have the background of Catholic tradition. Let me show you with some verses from John 5:

24 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
25 Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.
27 And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29
and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation

You see, What is in Red, seems to supports your sola fide/osas theology and many protestants quote it in isolation… But if you go down 3 lines to what is in blue, you get the qualifier that shows that this interpretation is not correct… You need to do good deeds to get the resurrection of life. If you need to do good deeds, then sola fide is no longer valid and neither is OSAS, because good deeds need to be done continually. As it says in verse 29 above, if you do wicked deeds, you will go to the resurrection of condemnation. You see, Faith and action must be done together or else both are invalid for salvation.

 

[rinnie]

Jerry, this is the danger of reading scripture without understanding the Doctrinal concepts that underly it. You pull out scriptural tidbits that on their own seem to support your theology but if you looked at all scripture together, you would find you are in error. To read scripture correctly, you need to have the background of Catholic tradition. Let me show you with some verses from John 5:

24 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation, but has passed from death to life.
25 Amen, amen, I say to you, the hour is coming and is now here when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so also he gave to his Son the possession of life in himself.
27 And he gave him power to exercise judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
28 Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
29
and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation

You see, What is in Red, seems to supports your sola fide/osas theology and many protestants quote it in isolation… But if you go down 3 lines to what is in blue, you get the qualifier that shows that this interpretation is not correct… You need to do good deeds to get the resurrection of life. If you need to do good deeds, then sola fide is no longer valid and neither is OSAS, because good deeds need to be done continually. As it says in verse 29 above, if you do wicked deeds, you will go to the resurrection of condemnation. You see, Faith and action must be done together or else both are invalid for salvation.

But you got to remeber Jerry believe that if you are saved by Christ you will never sin, thats why we all cannot accept his ideals. IT does not line up with scripture.

 

[TheWhoFreak]

I fail to see where the answer to my question is in here. Could you actually answer my question instead of avoiding it please? Here it is again:

Jerry, I want to ask you a question. Let’s go back to my previous example about the Christian who was saved and then did all that bad stuff. Let’s say he lived a Spirit-filled life for 30 years before doing those things. Don’t say that it is impossible for that to happen, this is a theoretical scenario. You would say that he was never saved to begin with. My problem is that he would have prayed to recieve Christ when he became a Christian right? So if he was never saved to begin with, did God just ignore his prayer? Methinks not, as evidenced by the Spirit-filled life. What say you Jerry?

Well. Jerry I’ve been waiting for 3 pages for a response. Why the wait? Is it because you are a busy man and can’t answer everything? Fair enough, but this will be the third time I’ve asked this question. Personally I think it is because you don’t have an answer that jives with your beliefs.

What do you say about this?

 

[rinnie]

Well. Jerry I’ve been waiting for 3 pages for a response. Why the wait? Is it because you are a busy man and can’t answer everything? Fair enough, but this will be the third time I’ve asked this question. Personally I think it is because you don’t have an answer that jives with your beliefs.

What do you say about this?

Jerry doesn’t like me either:bighanky:

 

[Cbailey2]

well my catholic friends, you all say it is my theology? i don’t know nothing of theology, i only read what is written in God’s word and have posted comments from a catholic site.

anyway, i will turn back to the bible and quote once more God’s word:

In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory. But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

ephesians 1:13-14, 2 corinthians 1:21-22

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are given security in Christ by none other than God Himself!

"Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal."

john 6:27

here Jesus is stating something very profound, He is telling us not to work for food that perishes but for eternal food that He will give us. He concludes this verse by stating that God has set His seal on Him, the same seal we receive upon believing. here are some more statements from the Bible that talk of security:

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

john 6:37-40

what is the will of the Father that Jesus should not lose anything that the Father has given Him and be raised on the last day. again, what is the will of the Father? that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life and be raised.

my friends put yourself at the receiving end of this opening statement from Jude 1 & 2:

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

he tells us who he is and to who he writing to: those who are called. then he tells that God the Father is keeping us safe for Jesus Christ. it is there my friends God keeps those who are called by Him and we respond in faith and repentance trusting Christ for our salvation.

He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began

one thing i will point out here that paul and those he is writing to are still alive and some of you have stated that we are working toward salvation. here in 2 timothy 1:9 he clearly states his assurance of salvation and how it is obtained. saved is the word he uses, past tense meaning it is a done deal and not from our works mind you but by grace bestowed on us in Jesus Christ.

say what you want of my ‘theology’ but i am sure that i am saved.

God bless you

Jerry, you’re not going to improve on scripture. If your response to what I wrote is to quote scripture, by all means, drop some quotes on me. But why do you bother putting your own words after each one of the quotes from the Bible? If the Bible speaks for itself, and has no need for your theology, then let the Bible speak for itself and stop paraphrasing each quote from it in your own words with your own conclusions. In the future, just put the scriptural quotes in order, back to back, without out any Jerry Commentary. If OSAS is obviously in the Bible, we’ll get the point without your words.

 

[Jerry_Marino]

well if you don’t read scripture and understand that once you believe the Holy Spirit comes into you at that precise moment and are justified. for those who believe that once you come to know Christ you will not sin you only deceive yourselves and if you think that you have come to the point of perfection without sin then you call God a liar.

those who get freak out about a person who is a believer and sins what happens to them well they are excommunicated: read 1 corinthians 5.

i don’t hate any of you i just won’t get into a personal dialogue or debate on the difference of opinion one might have. i love you all.

God bless

 

[paul_c]

well my catholic friends, you all say it is my theology? i don’t know nothing of theology, i only read what is written in God’s word and have posted comments from a catholic site.

anyway, i will turn back to the bible and quote once more God’s word:

In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory. But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

ephesians 1:13-14, 2 corinthians 1:21-22

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are given security in Christ by none other than God Himself!

"Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal."

john 6:27

here Jesus is stating something very profound, He is telling us not to work for food that perishes but for eternal food that He will give us. He concludes this verse by stating that God has set His seal on Him, the same seal we receive upon believing. here are some more statements from the Bible that talk of security:

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

john 6:37-40

what is the will of the Father that Jesus should not lose anything that the Father has given Him and be raised on the last day. again, what is the will of the Father? that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life and be raised.

my friends put yourself at the receiving end of this opening statement from Jude 1 & 2:

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

he tells us who he is and to who he writing to: those who are called. then he tells that God the Father is keeping us safe for Jesus Christ. it is there my friends God keeps those who are called by Him and we respond in faith and repentance trusting Christ for our salvation.

He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began

one thing i will point out here that paul and those he is writing to are still alive and some of you have stated that we are working toward salvation. here in 2 timothy 1:9 he clearly states his assurance of salvation and how it is obtained. saved is the word he uses, past tense meaning it is a done deal and not from our works mind you but by grace bestowed on us in Jesus Christ.

say what you want of my ‘theology’ but i am sure that i am saved.

God bless you

Jerry,
let me show you one more bible verse that demonstrates that savlation is not assured, even for those that have recievied the Holy spirit. Look what Hebrews 6: 4-6 has to say
4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit
5 and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt.

The people discussed here have recieved tHe Holy Spirit and yet have falled away. This clearly demonstrates that it is not only the predestined that can be justified and that no man is assured heaven.

 

[TheWhoFreak]

well if you don’t read scripture and understand that once you believe the Holy Spirit comes into you at that precise moment and are justified. for those who believe that once you come to know Christ you will not sin you only deceive yourselves and if you think that you have come to the point of perfection without sin then you call God a liar.

Where in the Bible does it say that a person is justified as soon as the Holy Spirit enters them? James 2:24 says that we are justified by works and not by the Holy Spirit. Revelation 20:12 says that the dead will be judged by their works.

those who get freak out about a person who is a believer and sins what happens to them well they are excommunicated: read 1 corinthians 5.

If people were excommunicated every time they sinned, the Catholic Church (or any church for that matter) would not have lasted a year. Do you interpret the parts of cleaning out unleavened dough to mean that we should oust members of our congregation who aren’t up to scratch? Personally, I think it means we should examine what in our lives needs to be improved and fixed up.

 

[Cbailey2]

well if you don’t read scripture and understand that once you believe the Holy Spirit comes into you at that precise moment and are justified. for those who believe that once you come to know Christ you will not sin you only deceive yourselves and if you think that you have come to the point of perfection without sin then you call God a liar.

I read scripture, you read scripture, presbyterians read scripture, baptists read scripture, methodists read scripture, non-denominationals reads scripture, anglicans read scripture, and independent bible churches read scripture…and yet we disagree. How is that? Do those who disagree with you lack faith? Has the Holy Spirit failed to transform their ability to interpret as it has for you?

i don’t hate any of you i just won’t get into a personal dialogue or debate on the difference of opinion one might have. i love you all.

Jerry, I respect your persistence. You are here to evangelize us I hope because of your love for Christ. But perhaps the reason you’ve come here isn’t the reason Christ led you here. We’ve been banging our head up against a brick wall trying to have a conversation with you, trying to get you to think beyond the superficial reading of scripture you have been preaching to us, but instead of listening to any of us and considering the merits of what we are saying, you have consistently turned off your brain and fallen back upon your talking points.

People who have posted here of all Christian stripes have posed very interesting, difficult questions, but you shrug them off as if they aren’t important. Jerry, the helmet of the hope of salvation is not a blinder and it should not cut off circulation to our brain. St. Paul tells us in the same verse, not only to put on that helmet, but “to test everything and retain what is good” (1 thessalonians 5:8).

Loving someone means telling them when they are wrong and respecting them enough to weigh the merits of their words. Have you really done that for us? If you won’t get into personal dialogue or debate about God’s Honest Truth, then how can you claim to love us?

The fact is you don’t love us Jerry - you pity us. You view yourself like many economists view themselves when they go to poor countries: as a savior, there to teach the ignorant masses how to live fruitful lives and then they wonder why their projects fail. They never consider that those people might have more answers than they think and that maybe they have more to learn from those people than they have to teach.

 

[rinnie]

well if you don’t read scripture and understand that once you believe the Holy Spirit comes into you at that precise moment and are justified. for those who believe that once you come to know Christ you will not sin you only deceive yourselves and if you think that you have come to the point of perfection without sin then you call God a liar.

those who get freak out about a person who is a believer and sins what happens to them well they are excommunicated: read 1 corinthians 5.

i don’t hate any of you i just won’t get into a personal dialogue or debate on the difference of opinion one might have. i love you all.

God bless

I believe that your love is honesty Jerry. I really do. But could you explain to be how you can say osas and then turn around and say a believer who sins get excommunicated?

 

[Jerry_Marino]

okay, one thing that has come out of this is that some believe that we have to work for our salvation or to keep it while i believe that God keeps the believers. i believe that we are justified once we have come to believe in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ while some believe you have to work towards that justification. my friends this isn’t about who is right or wrong cause we can be easily deceived by our own hearts but what matters is where one puts his trust. i choose to put my trust in the work of Jesus on the cross not in my own work, my hope here is to share with all the promise we have in Christ.

now talking of work or deeds here is God’s word:

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, 5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

people please put your trust in the one savior who is Jesus Christ, God bless.

 

[wisdomseeker]

well my catholic friends, you all say it is my theology? i don’t know nothing of theology, i only read what is written in God’s word and have posted comments from a catholic site.

anyway, i will turn back to the bible and quote once more God’s word:

In him you also, who have heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and have believed in him, were sealed with the promised holy Spirit, which is the first installment of our inheritance toward redemption as God’s possession, to the praise of his glory. But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts as a first installment.

ephesians 1:13-14, 2 corinthians 1:21-22

we are sealed with the Holy Spirit, we are given security in Christ by none other than God Himself!

"Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal."

john 6:27

here Jesus is stating something very profound, He is telling us not to work for food that perishes but for eternal food that He will give us. He concludes this verse by stating that God has set His seal on Him, the same seal we receive upon believing. here are some more statements from the Bible that talk of security:

Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day."

john 6:37-40

what is the will of the Father that Jesus should not lose anything that the Father has given Him and be raised on the last day. again, what is the will of the Father? that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have eternal life and be raised.

my friends put yourself at the receiving end of this opening statement from Jude 1 & 2:

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept safe for Jesus Christ: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance.

he tells us who he is and to who he writing to: those who are called. then he tells that God the Father is keeping us safe for Jesus Christ. it is there my friends God keeps those who are called by Him and we respond in faith and repentance trusting Christ for our salvation.

He saved us and called us to a holy life, not according to our works but according to his own design and the grace bestowed on us in Christ Jesus before time began

one thing i will point out here that paul and those he is writing to are still alive and some of you have stated that we are working toward salvation. here in 2 timothy 1:9 he clearly states his assurance of salvation and how it is obtained. saved is the word he uses, past tense meaning it is a done deal and not from our works mind you but by grace bestowed on us in Jesus Christ.

say what you want of my ‘theology’ but i am sure that i am saved.

God bless you

and just how you know you are saved? just because you read the Bible? as you know the promises written is only for those who came into the Church and obey all the Apostles teachings. and not for those who simply take it without being given to them.

just tell us how do you know you are saved?

 

[fhansen]

okay, one thing that has come out of this is that some believe that we have to work for our salvation or to keep it while i believe that God keeps the believers. i believe that we are justified once we have come to believe in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ while some believe you have to work towards that justification. my friends this isn’t about who is right or wrong cause we can be easily deceived by our own hearts but what matters is where one puts his trust. i choose to put my trust in the work of Jesus on the cross not in my own work, my hope here is to share with all the promise we have in Christ.

now talking of work or deeds here is God’s word:

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, 5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

people please put your trust in the one savior who is Jesus Christ, God bless.

Two significant words here are renewal by the Holy Spirit and hope of eternal life. This signifies Catholic belief: we believe God wants us to be genuinely changed, and we hope He’ll accomplish this work in us unto salvation. In Catholic theology, hope is a virtue by which we place trust and confidence in Gods promises. Renewal is impossible without Gods grace and yet He chooses to accomplish it only with our cooperation. The cooperation part is sort of the wild card because since it means we have a role to play, we must have confidence while guarding against over-confidence.
Makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[paul_c]

okay, one thing that has come out of this is that some believe that we have to work for our salvation or to keep it while i believe that God keeps the believers. i believe that we are justified once we have come to believe in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ while some believe you have to work towards that justification. my friends this isn’t about who is right or wrong cause we can be easily deceived by our own hearts but what matters is where one puts his trust. i choose to put my trust in the work of Jesus on the cross not in my own work, my hope here is to share with all the promise we have in Christ.

now talking of work or deeds here is God’s word:

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, 5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

people please put your trust in the one savior who is Jesus Christ, God bless.

Jerry,
lets dispense with a few miconceptions about what Catholics believe. First of all, we do not believe that you can work your way to heaven in the sense that the person who prays the most or gives the most alms will be rewarded. We believe that we are put in the state of Grace gratuitously through God’s mercy, when we are baptized into his Church. This is what Paul means in his letter to Titus that you quote above.

But that’s only part of the story. We then believe once we are a part of God’s church, we must do his will. This means that we must love God and love our neighbor. Love in this instance is to do things for them without expecting anything in return. I would suspect that you also, would expect the elect to do God’s will.

Now, what happens if someone who has been baptized fails to do God’s will? What if he turns away from God, through sin? What if he apostacizes and curses God? We believe that such a person falls from the state of Grace. If he fails to turn back to God through the sacrament of reconciliation and retun to the state of Grace, he will be condemned to Hell. This is totally a matter of individual choice. You either choose to do God’s will and go to heaven, or you don’t and are condemned. And it requires perseverence so that you don’t fall from the state of Grace.

You, Jerry, profess to a OSAS philosophy. So how do you understand outright apostacy (denouncing God) or murder for someone that has previously professed belief? Do you describe that as someone who was never really part of the elect? But remember, that person thought they were part of the elect so OSAS is an illusion if you believe that a person who thought they were elect can really not be. Perhaps you believe that God will simply forgive anyone that at one time professed belief. But how can a just God look the other way when crimes are committed? Would an unrepentent murderer be welcome in heaven? Please advise…

 

[Cbailey2]

okay, one thing that has come out of this is that some believe that we have to work for our salvation or to keep it while i believe that God keeps the believers. i believe that we are justified once we have come to believe in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ while some believe you have to work towards that justification. my friends this isn’t about who is right or wrong cause we can be easily deceived by our own hearts but what matters is where one puts his trust. i choose to put my trust in the work of Jesus on the cross not in my own work, my hope here is to share with all the promise we have in Christ.

now talking of work or deeds here is God’s word:

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, 5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

people please put your trust in the one savior who is Jesus Christ, God bless.

Jerry,

I’m sorry you didn’t come here with an open heart. Given all of the posts that have been written in response to you, it is unfair for you for you to claim that Catholics don’t put their trust in Christ. We do. We love Christ so much that we seek to imitate him, living by all of his words, not just the convenient ones, and those include a Church built upon Peter, upon which the gates of hell will not prevail.

The issue is not who we place our trust in, but how we think that trust works. You think that the prodigal son can continue to live his life in the slop with the pigs and trust that, when the time comes, the Father can come and drag him back to the feast, because the son is family. We trust that when the prodigal son leaves the slop and returns to his Father with a contrite heart, the Father will always forgive him. We also trust that if he chooses to remain in the slop, he will remain in the slop because the Father will not force him to serve Him.

Which of these is biblical Jerry?

Let’s be honest with each other for a moment: this IS about who is right and wrong. God gave His Truth to mankind. If God can’t preserve mankind from losing His Truth, why would you expect Him to preserve an unrepentant sinner? If Christ founded the Catholic Church and you aren’t a part of it, how much are you really placing your trust in Him?

 

[TheWhoFreak]

okay, one thing that has come out of this is that some believe that we have to work for our salvation or to keep it while i believe that God keeps the believers. i believe that we are justified once we have come to believe in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ…

James 2:24 says that we are justified by our works. I could have all the faith in the world, but how would anyone know if I didn’t show it by my works? We are called to be a city on a hill, shining light into a dark world. Faith is invisible, but works will shed light on that faith and prove to God and to our fellow men that we truly believe in what we say we do. Actions speak louder than words. Would people believe that Jesus was the Christ if the only thing He did was say that He was? Or did they believe because they saw His miracles and other good works?

…while some believe you have to work towards that justification. my friends this isn’t about who is right or wrong cause we can be easily deceived by our own hearts but what matters is where one puts his trust. i choose to put my trust in the work of Jesus on the cross not in my own work, my hope here is to share with all the promise we have in Christ.

Do you show that you trust Jesus? If we do not show our faith by our actions, then how people see if we truly believe? Think about it this way: Which person do you think has a better chance of going to Heaven: someone who had a very strong faith but never acted it out, or someone who struggled with the faith but always tried to do the right thing. In light of James 2:24, I think the latter would have a better chance.

now talking of work or deeds here is God’s word:

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, 5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

I hope you realize Paul is talking about baptism here. I think you’re confusing God’s love with Salvation. God loves everybody equally. However, just because God loves you doesn’t mean you go to Heaven. God loved Hitler and Stalin and Aleister Crowley and the 9/11 terrorists just as much as He loves you and me. I’m fairly sure that none of them went to Heaven, due to their actions while on Earth.

people please put your trust in the one savior who is Jesus Christ, God bless.

And what makes you think we haven’t? Is it the Church we belong to, or is it our Salvation theology?

 

[fbl9]

You, Jerry, profess to a OSAS philosophy. So how do you understand outright apostacy (denouncing God) or murder for someone that has previously professed belief? Do you describe that as someone who was never really part of the elect? But remember, that person thought they were part of the elect so OSAS is an illusion if you believe that a person who thought they were elect can really not be. Perhaps you believe that God will simply forgive anyone that at one time professed belief. But how can a just God look the other way when crimes are committed? Would an unrepentent murderer be welcome in heaven? Please advise…

this is one of the most difficult things to get across to propentents of osas.Because it strikes at the very heart of the beleif in osas, and that of being “assured” of salvation.

Using the example of murder is a bit exteme but there are other grievious sins that can be committed…from the prespective of the person committing the sin raises the question inside themselves…was i never truly saved then?..if i wasn’t truly saved bc i commited this sin then all i beleived and lived for must have been a lie for me to commit this sin…bc i committed thsi sin then i must not be of the elect then?..so why repent?.. i can never be truly saved i am of the damned…what is the use of repenting, if all my sins are forgiven before i commit them?

Yes osas is an extremely EMPTY beleif.

 

[rinnie]

okay, one thing that has come out of this is that some believe that we have to work for our salvation or to keep it while i believe that God keeps the believers. i believe that we are justified once we have come to believe in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ while some believe you have to work towards that justification. my friends this isn’t about who is right or wrong cause we can be easily deceived by our own hearts but what matters is where one puts his trust. i choose to put my trust in the work of Jesus on the cross not in my own work, my hope here is to share with all the promise we have in Christ.

now talking of work or deeds here is God’s word:

Titus 3:4 But when the kindness and generous love of God our savior appeared, 5 not because of any righteous deeds we had done but because of his mercy, he saved us through the bath of rebirth and renewal by the holy Spirit, 6 whom he richly poured out on us through Jesus Christ our savior, 7 so that we might be justified by his grace and become heirs in hope of eternal life.

people please put your trust in the one savior who is Jesus Christ, God bless.

See folks this sums it up. Jerry thinks that because we believe that we have to do our part in this world like the bible says it takes away from the cross. Jerry does not realize like all of us Catholics know that just because God died on the cross and saved us we still have our part to do. Jerry thinks because we believe that we are here to do God’s work and if we accept it we are doing our part it some how takes away THe death of Jesus on the Cross:shrug:

Go figure. Only the HS can help to open the heart of Jerry to understand any more. We have all tried, gave scripture and it has all been ignored. But we know we tried. The rest now is up to God to show Jerry. We can see we cannot. Have a wonderful weekend and God be with you all. Goodnight.