Osiris and Jesus?

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Okay, so I recently read an article on Osiris on wikipedia and it mentions a form of Eucharist with wheat cakes that was supposedly eaten by followers in order to become “replicas” of Osiris. Is there any truth of this or Catholic response?

This claim is made by a Martin A. Larson who was a free-thinker who believed that Jesus incorporated pagan elements in His teaching. So, I don’t know.
 
Jesus also promoted praying. Other religions before Jesus prayed too. Does one have anything to do with the other?
 
I don’t recommend “Lutheran Satire,” especially since they put out an offensive and inflammatory video mocking Pope Francis.
 
Dan999 said:
Okay, so I recently read an article on Osiris on wikipedia and it mentions a form of Eucharist with wheat cakes that was supposedly eaten by followers in order to become “replicas” of Osiris. Is there any truth of this or Catholic response?

This claim is made by a Martin A. Larson who was a free-thinker who believed that Jesus incorporated pagan elements in His teaching. So, I don’t know.
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I don’t know anything about it but I have heard of such arguments. Even if followers of Osiris believed that, it does not prove that Christ, the Apostles and the early Christians were copying them or anyone else. You aren’t suggesting the Christ lied to us are you? Of course not! Well ignore these things, why are you reading such junk anyway?

Linus2nd
 
Jesus is also a bridegroom on Calvary, we cannot forget this part of who Jesus is because it makes our faith and the Eucharist so much richer. The Eucharist is both a sacrificial offering and a wedding feast. This is unique to Christ. No other man saw the day he died as his wedding day, most men see it as the opposite.
 
Dan999 said:
Okay, so I recently read an article on Osiris on wikipedia and it mentions a form of Eucharist with wheat cakes that was supposedly eaten by followers in order to become “replicas” of Osiris. Is there any truth of this or Catholic response?

This claim is made by a Martin A. Larson who was a free-thinker who believed that Jesus incorporated pagan elements in His teaching. So, I don’t know.
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This line of thinking is used by very anti-Catholic type groups who want to paint the picture that the Catholic Church is full of paganism. The problem is that other religions and faiths do have elements of truth which would point to the real deal. An example would be the 3 wise men who were astrologers. These very anti-Catholic type groups don’t recognize or realize this so when they want to point to some similar typology out of ancient Egypt, they miss the boat. The elements of other religions do not make the other religion equal or just as good but that fragments of truth in other faiths can be used to bring people to the fullness of faith but people like this are too stuck on their anti-Catholic kick that they miss the boat.
 
Whoever makes such claims about Osiris either does not know their history or are blatant revisionists, The main Egyptian gods were combined with the Greek gods after Egypt came under Greek influence around the 3rd century B.C. Of course, some rituals, traditions, and superstitions lasted much longer. But, by the time of Cleopatra’s death in
30 B.C., which marked the end of the Ptolemaic Period, the old religion and its rituals was dead. This was 30 years before the birth of Jesus…and bear in mind that in Palestine at that time, no one studied any religion except their own. The Romans were too self concerned with their own gods, and cared about other peoples religions only as a means to control them, and the Jews considered the study of any religion other than their own as being sinful.
These social conditions continued until the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and the spread of Christianity.
 
Dan999 said:
Okay, so I recently read an article on Osiris on wikipedia and it mentions a form of Eucharist with wheat cakes that was supposedly eaten by followers in order to become “replicas” of Osiris. Is there any truth of this or Catholic response?

This claim is made by a Martin A. Larson who was a free-thinker who believed that Jesus incorporated pagan elements in His teaching. So, I don’t know.
Click to expand...
Ask for the source of the Osiris claim.

Anyway, read this for further info:

ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html

ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-connection.html
 
Thank you for your responses. I’ve just been having a lot of trouble with my faith lately. Pray for me. Please.
 
I believe that was a Jack Chick tract, wasn’t it? Something about a “death cookie”?
 
TarkanAttila said:
I believe that was a Jack Chick tract, wasn’t it? Something about a “death cookie”?
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Oh, right. About how apparently, IHS stands for Isis-Horus-Set, as opposed to being the first three letters of Ιησους (Jesus, for those who don’t know the Greek alphabet).
 
This is actually a scholarly debate topic which I’ve taken a keen interest in recently. Christianity certainly did copy a good number of features religious iconography from Egyptian native religion such as…
  • The icons of the Madonna and child have been proven to have been styled upon Roman/Ptolemaic Egypt images of Isis and the Child-Horus. This has little bearing on actual theology, merely the depiction of the relationship.
-Horus’s birthday, like Mithra and Dionysus, two other Gods with a heavy emphasis eternal life was December 25th.

-During the “Armana” period, there was a single monotheistic sun deity called “Aten” worshiped. He was represented as a Circle rather reminiscent of the Eucharist and more interestingly prayers to him were finished with the word “amen” (pronunciation, rather than how it was written in Demotic.

-The Ancient Egyptian native religion is (to date) the oldest religion with a concept of an eternal judgement after death, leading to paradise or annihilation.
  • While Pharaohs/Roman Emperors were “deified”, they were not acknowledged as Gods per say like Jove or Serapis was. Rather, they were believed to be humans that exemplified excellence and the highest standards anyone (like Julius Caesar) or Livia (the wife of Augustus) could ever aspire to and should be emulated by the masses. Surely I am not the only one who can see the parallel to declaring saints there?
It could all be coincidental, since one could also draw some (albit weaker) parallels in Aztec religion. But in truth, no-one really knows and in all truth it probably doesn’t make a fat lot of difference either way.

Edit: That “Horus ruined Christmas” video has a good number of inaccuracies. While it is true in most accounts Isis was not a virgin (she was actually impregnated by a corpse in the form of a bird…long story) and the account of Horus being crucified cannot be verified and to me does seem very unlikely (Osiris was the God of resurrection and renewal, Horus was a God of life) nor was Mithras born of a virgin the other claims are indeed true.
 
Dan999 said:
Okay, so I recently read an article on Osiris on wikipedia and it mentions a form of Eucharist with wheat cakes that was supposedly eaten by followers in order to become “replicas” of Osiris. Is there any truth of this or Catholic response?

This claim is made by a Martin A. Larson who was a free-thinker who believed that Jesus incorporated pagan elements in His teaching. So, I don’t know.
Click to expand...
The God of Abraham and Moses made mince meat of these Egyptian gods in the Exodus. What is there to copy/learn from them? Gosh! when God thrashed these false gods, he has to borrow a wheat recipe from them? sheesh!

On a more serious note, most Bible scholars regard this allegations of Christianity paganistic roots as a dead issue. When investigated thoroughly, these allegations falls apart. The Eucharistic meal is based on the Passover, not on a paganistic meal. Indeed common meals are found in almost all religious communities.
 
Dan999 said:
Okay, so I recently read an article on Osiris on wikipedia and it mentions a form of Eucharist with wheat cakes that was supposedly eaten by followers in order to become “replicas” of Osiris. Is there any truth of this or Catholic response?

This claim is made by a Martin A. Larson who was a free-thinker who believed that Jesus incorporated pagan elements in His teaching. So, I don’t know.
Click to expand...
I recently heard a good line in the Symbolon Catholic Study, paraphrased “The difference between other religions and Christianity is in other religions, man seeks God, whereas in Christianity, God seeks man.”

From my personal understanding, this means in other religions, man is sharing his perspective of God to others. Whereas, in Catholicism, God is sharing his perspective of God to others.

Thanks for sharing the intriguing food for thought!
 
jochoa said:
I recently heard a good line in the Symbolon Catholic Study, paraphrased “The difference between other religions and Christianity is in other religions, man seeks God, whereas in Christianity, God seeks man.”

From my personal understanding, this means in other religions, man is sharing his perspective of God to others. Whereas, in Catholicism, God is sharing his perspective of God to others.
Click to expand...
This isn’t really unique to Christianity, The Qu’ran and the Torah could both be described by belivers as Gods revelation to man.

As could Bahai, Mormonism, The Peoples Temple, Christian Science, Raelism, Infernal Satanism (through inference) and even Heavens Gate
 
NekoNecro said:
  • The icons of the Madonna and child have been proven to have been styled upon Roman/Ptolemaic Egypt images of Isis and the Child-Horus. This has little bearing on actual theology, merely the depiction of the relationship.
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Yes, the mother-child relationship is unique to Isis and Horus. Never in the history of humanity has a mother ever been related to a child (prior to Isis and Horus.)

I am still trying to decide which is more vapid, a disclaimer concerning the lack of theological relevance or a claim that the mother-child archetype had its genesis with Isis and Horus.
 
NekoNecro said:
-Horus’s birthday, like Mithra and Dionysus, two other Gods with a heavy emphasis eternal life was December 25th.
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An interesting commentary on the December 25th dating of Christmas can be found here:

tofspot.blogspot.ca/2011/12/mas-time-is-here-by-golly.html#more

An excerpt:
However, no Roman feasts fell on Dec 25. The biggest festival, Saturnalia, ended several days earlier, usually on the 19th. …but the Roman calendar was so thick with celebrations that pretty much any randomly chosen day in December would be “around” some Roman festival.
The following are the festivals under the Republic for the month of December:
(ca. 3/4 Dec) Bona Dea - A women’s festival of no fixed date.
Non. Dec (5 Dec) Faunalia rustica (a “pagan” (i.e., rural) festival imported into the City)
III Id. Dec. (11 Dec) Agonia
Prid. Id. Dec. (12 Dec) Consualia
XVI Kal. Ian. (17 Dec) Saturnalia (usually 3 days, expanded or contracted in imperial times by various emperors. A day of hilarity and noblesse oblige in which upper class people allowed lower class people to pretend to be powerful. Included gift-giving.)
XIV Kal. Ian. (19 Dec) Opalia
XII Kal. Ian. (21 Dec) Divalia (center of the winter solstice; but not a sun-festival.)
X Kal. Ian. (23 Dec) Larentalia (a parentatio for the dead, spec. Larentia, a demi-god).
Kal. Ian (1 Jan) Aesculapio, Vediovi in Insula and that takes us into January.
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…
Emperor Aurelian supposedly started this feast in AD 274, but St. Hippolytus referred to Dec. 25 as Christmas in AD 202/211, around seventy years earlier. Clement of Alexandria, a contemporary, also indicated 25 Dec. It actually seems more likely that the Emperor was trying to co-opt the date from the already-existing Christian feast rather than vice versa!
It also seems that Sol Invictus was not pegged at 25 Dec until much later. Aurelian’s original inscription makes no mention of a date…
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Also
A Jewish tradition supposedly held that great prophets entered the world on the same date they left it. Calculations of Good Friday pegging off Great Passovers (those that fell on Sabbaths) yielded March 25 or April 6, depending on various calendrical assumptions. If Christ was conceived on March 25, the Incarnation, then after a normal pregnancy Christmas would be Dec. 25, nine months later.
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Peter_Plato said:
Yes, the mother-child relationship is unique to Isis and Horus. Never in the history of humanity has a mother ever been related to a child (prior to Isis and Horus.)

I am still trying to decide which is more vapid, a disclaimer concerning the lack of theological relevance or a claim that the mother-child archetype had its genesis with Isis and Horus.
Click to expand...
I never said it was the only one, I am refering more specifically to the method of depiction and positions the divine figures are placed in.

Like for example, take this Ptolemaic Idol of Isis and Horus from around 30BC and compare it to one of the oldest known depictions of the *Theotokos *in the western Roman Empire.



Some slight differences, the veil and flowing robes are more benefiting a modest Roman Matron than the Queen of Magic aren’t they?

http://aryanity.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/chapter-9-figure-1.jpg
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

But as I said, this doesn’t really have much bearing on the Theology itself, merley the way artists chose to depict the relationship.

Egypt isn’t the only area proposed though in truth, we can find some similarities in Hinduism as well, albit that itself may have been influenced by Egyptian art too.

http://www.cyprusfreethinkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Cyprus-FreeThinkers-web.jpg
 
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