OT and NT God

[dominikus28]

Is God different in the new testament and the old testament? It seems like he is unforgiving in the OT and forgiving in NT. This was what I was wondering about but mostly this: Why does God communicate with the Jews directly in the OT, while in NT he doesn’t? I mean in OT there are lots of people who are told to do things by God, but then in NT suddenly the Jews are on their own, noone telling them what to do

Thanks

 

[NHInsider]

No, there is only One God, who revealed Himself to His chosen people and who “in the fulness of time” became Incarnate and dwelt among us, and then commissioned us to continue His mission until the end of time.

Human understanding of God’s revelation developed slowly and haltingly, and is recorded in human language in the books of our Old Testament. This can lead to the misunderstanding you have raised - a misunderstanding that has in fact led some into heresies insisting that the Old Testament God was not the God Jesus revealed.

The answer to your second question, I think, combines two parts. One is that we have in the Old Testament just the story of God’s interactions with His people, which makes it seem like “there are lots of people who are told to do things by God.” This would be like if your only record of your life was a scrapbook of pictures of you at various holidays - here’s my first birthday, here’s Christmas the year I was five, here’s my graduation from 8th grade, etc. Someone looking back at that scrapbook a hundred years later might think you had presents given to you all the time, if they didn’t know that the scrapbook only recorded “signficant moments” and not “everyday life.”

The other part is that what makes the New Testament “New” is the Incarnation, and since the Incarnation God speaks to His people not only through occasional prophets but in the permanant presence of His Church, to whom He promised the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Which we tend to take for granted, since it’s always here, and not think of as God speaking to us.

 

[JRKH]

Is God different in the new testament and the old testament? It seems like he is unforgiving in the OT and forgiving in NT. This was what I was wondering about but mostly this: Why does God communicate with the Jews directly in the OT, while in NT he doesn’t? I mean in OT there are lots of people who are told to do things by God, but then in NT suddenly the Jews are on their own, noone telling them what to do

Thanks

Same God. It is not God who has changed, but we, though His grace have been changed.

As to God speaking directly. In NT times, God was speaking directly through His son, and then directly through the Apostles.

Today - I have heard God’s voice in my life several times. Once very distinctly. So I guess I don’t see there really being a difference.

Peace
James

 

[puzzleannie]

Is God different in the new testament and the old testament? It seems like he is unforgiving in the OT and forgiving in NT. This was what I was wondering about but mostly this: Why does God communicate with the Jews directly in the OT, while in NT he doesn’t? I mean in OT there are lots of people who are told to do things by God, but then in NT suddenly the Jews are on their own, noone telling them what to do

Thanks

let’s see, God threatens to destroy the earth once for people’s sins, relents and saves one just family and promises never to do that again, despite the fact that before the water is dry under the ark they are at it again. He repeatedly hears the pleas of his prophets to save the people from the consequences of their sins, he even allows sinners to choose the manner of their punishment, as pharaoh did when he called down the death of the firstborn, the entire OT is they history of God teaching his people the natural consequences of their sins and forgiving them over and over, and promising to send a Messiah to save them once and for all. Did you read the part of the NT where Jesus taught his own people, the Jews daily?

The NT God does not just speak to his people through his messengers, he sends his only Son who becomes human and walks among us, and whose Word has been spread to the ends of the earth by his apostles.

I am not seeing where your compaint about the OT or the NT stands up.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Same God. It is not God who has changed, but we, though His grace have been changed.

As to God speaking directly. In NT times, God was speaking directly through His son, and then directly through the Apostles.

Today - I have heard God’s voice in my life several times. Once very distinctly. So I guess I don’t see there really being a difference.

Peace
James

Agree’d, the message is also very clear throughout. I often hear Catholic’s and Christian’s say that God feels very far away. Thats the same feeling I am getting here. He is very close to us and very aware of everything. The real individual problem is that you must Pray. You continue to keep the channel open for him to be close to you this way. The closer you come to him, the closer he will come to you.

Pray the Rosary daily and watch your life change through your love of God, Jesus and the Blessed Mother… and Gods love for “you”. And Pray for those who’s chance’s grow thinner and who have no faith. That is our responsibility as Catholic’s.

The passage that has been stuck in my mind recently is this. The Apostle Paul said, “I, Paul, am a Prisoner of Jesus Christ”. What kind of prisoner are you? We are all prisoners of something. The thinking is; If you are not living through and for GOD, you are a prisoner of Sin.

Ephesians 3:1

“Let the Spirit change your way of thinking and make you into a new person”.

Ephesians 4:23,24

God Bless, GT

 

[JRKH]

Agree’d, the message is also very clear throughout. I often hear Catholic’s and Christian’s say that God feels very far away. Thats the same feeling I am getting here. He is very close to us and very aware of everything. The real individual problem is that you must Pray. You continue to keep the channel open for him to be close to you this way. The closer you come to him, the closer he will come to you.

Pray the Rosary daily and watch your life change through your love of God, Jesus and the Blessed Mother… and Gods love for “you”. And Pray for those who’s chance’s grow thinner and who have no faith. That is our responsibility as Catholic’s.

The passage that has been stuck in my mind recently is this. The Apostle Paul said, “I, Paul, am a Prisoner of Jesus Christ”. What kind of prisoner are you? We are all prisoners of something. The thinking is; If you are not living through and for GOD, you are a prisoner of Sin.

Ephesians 3:1

“Let the Spirit change your way of thinking and make you into a new person”.

Ephesians 4:23,24

God Bless, GT

Nice post but I’d like to clarify one thing. Saying as you do above, “Catholic’s and Christian’s”, in incorrect and confusing. Catholics ARE christians. A better way to put it would be “Catholic and non-catholic Christians…”
Just a small suggestion for clarity’s sake.

Peace
James

 

[PJM]

=dominikus28;6645267]Is God different in the new testament and the old testament? It seems like he is unforgiving in the OT and forgiving in NT. This was what I was wondering about but mostly this: Why does God communicate with the Jews directly in the OT, while in NT he doesn’t? I mean in OT there are lots of people who are told to do things by God, but then in NT suddenly the Jews are on their own, noone telling them what to do

Thanks

Unchangeable God

Job.23: 13 “But he is unchangeable and who can turn him? What he desires, that he does.”

**Heb. 6: 17 -20 ** So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he interposed with an oath, so that through two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible that God should prove false, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest for ever after the order of Melchiz’edek.”

God being the GREAT “I AM” can never change.

We can however petition God to change His mind through prayer and sacrifice.

The Difference in the OT God; and the NT God mirrors the very purpose of the NT. namely to fulfill, complete and perfect the OT which leads to the NT.

Isaiah 43 vs. 7 and 21 explain our existence on earth, the very reason for our being Created. Humanity alone has the potential to Praise God, Worship God and Thank God.

The OT people were a people of there time; ruled by fear, while seeking God. Now God has revealed Himself in a fuller, more complete and perfect way; as a God of Love and JUSTICE. Can’t have one without the other.

Love and payers,

Pat

 

[JAGCath28]

I do not believe that God was different in the OT vs. the NT…BUT…how do you respond when people use the references to the Israelites being told to kill all of the enemies in certain instances when they were coming into the Promised Land. Atheists want to know how a “loving” God like what we see in the NT could condone this and be considered the same in the OT. I don’t really know how to answer this. I know what I believe, but that doesn’t help me answer the question.

 

[PJM]

=JAGCath28;6650037]I do not believe that God was different in the OT vs. the NT…BUT…how do you respond when people use the references to the Israelites being told to kill all of the enemies in certain instances when they were coming into the Promised Land. Atheists want to know how a “loving” God like what we see in the NT could condone this and be considered the same in the OT. I don’t really know how to answer this. I know what I believe, but that doesn’t help me answer the question.

Sir.33: 13 “As clay in the hand of the potter – for all his ways are as he pleases – so men are in the hand of him who made them, to give them as he decides.”

Rom.9: 21 “Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?”

** 4Ezra.8: 8 **“And because thou dost give life to the body which is now fashioned in the womb, and dost furnish it with members, what thou hast created is preserved in fire and water, and for nine months the womb which thou has formed endures thy creation which has been created in it. [9] But that which keeps and that which is kept shall both be kept by thy keeping. And when the womb gives up again what has been created in it,”

**2Mac.7: 23 **“Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of man and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath back to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws.”

**1Pet.4: 19 **“Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will do right and entrust their souls to a faithful Creator.”

***One must be always mindful of these facts:

God is our Creator, and demands the right to choose life and death of His created.

Not Only is God our Creator BUT God sustains our lifes.

The basis for God’s decision in every instance of ordering the murder of a Nation was precisely to protect the budding faith of the Hewbrew Nation, who were easly influenced by those Pagan muti-god worshipers sourounding them.

It was to FORCEthem to Focus on Yahweh God alone. However don’t expect unenlightened, without Faith, Atheists to accept what they can’t comprehend.

Further they don’t want to know the truth becaue it would require them to change how they live there sinful lives. What they are doing is trying to convert you to there Godless views.

From experience I strongly suggest you avoid debating with them as they are devious and disingnious. This is critical to your Faith until at least you become better educated and firmly grounded on the ROCK of the CC.

Love and prayers,***

 

[JAGCath28]

Sir.33: 13 “As clay in the hand of the potter – for all his ways are as he pleases – so men are in the hand of him who made them, to give them as he decides.”

Rom.9: 21 “Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?”

** 4Ezra.8: 8 **“And because thou dost give life to the body which is now fashioned in the womb, and dost furnish it with members, what thou hast created is preserved in fire and water, and for nine months the womb which thou has formed endures thy creation which has been created in it. [9] But that which keeps and that which is kept shall both be kept by thy keeping. And when the womb gives up again what has been created in it,”

**2Mac.7: 23 **“Therefore the Creator of the world, who shaped the beginning of man and devised the origin of all things, will in his mercy give life and breath back to you again, since you now forget yourselves for the sake of his laws.”

**1Pet.4: 19 **“Therefore let those who suffer according to God’s will do right and entrust their souls to a faithful Creator.”

***One must be always mindful of these facts:

God is our Creator, and demands the right to choose life and death of His created.

Not Only is God our Creator BUT God sustains our lifes.

The basis for God’s decision in every instance of ordering the murder of a Nation was precisely to protect the budding faith of the Hewbrew Nation, who were easly influenced by those Pagan muti-god worshipers sourounding them.

It was to FORCEthem to Focus on Yahweh God alone. However don’t expect unenlightened, without Faith, Atheists to accept what they can’t comprehend.

Further they don’t want to know the truth becaue it would require them to change how they live there sinful lives. What they are doing is trying to convert you to there Godless views.

From experience I strongly suggest you avoid debating with them as they are devious and disingnious. This is critical to your Faith until at least you become better educated and firmly grounded on the ROCK of the CC.

Love and prayers,***

Thank you! I typically do avoid the debate especially if I’m a little shaky on my knowledge. It’s just that he’s a good friend of ours, and the topic got brought up over the weekend. I just didn’t know how to respond so I said that he was wrong and that I didn’t want to talk about that (because it was slightly off topic of the overall conversation), but at another time we could discuss it if he wanted. We are going to see him again in a few weeks and I have a feeling that the “God” conversation will come up. But, I guess if you don’t believe in God then you aren’t going to believe in “God’s rights” so to speak.

But, I have a question to sort of follow up the original question. It’s nothing that shakes my faith necessarily, but if ever asked, I would not be able to answer. If God loved us so much by sending his Son to die for our sins, then why would he do things like harden Pharoah’s heart? Because someone might see that as God overstepping the free will boundary for those of us who believe we have free will. I ask because the result of Pharoah’s hardened heart was the death of all the first born children in Egypt.

 

[PJM]

=JAGCath28;6650375]Thank you! I typically do avoid the debate especially if I’m a little shaky on my knowledge. It’s just that he’s a good friend of ours, and the topic got brought up over the weekend. I just didn’t know how to respond so I said that he was wrong and that I didn’t want to talk about that (because it was slightly off topic of the overall conversation), but at another time we could discuss it if he wanted. We are going to see him again in a few weeks and I have a feeling that the “God” conversation will come up. But, I guess if you don’t believe in God then you aren’t going to believe in “God’s rights” so to speak.

But, I have a question to sort of follow up the original question. It’s nothing that shakes my faith necessarily, but if ever asked, I would not be able to answer. If God loved us so much by sending his Son to die for our sins, then why would he do things like harden Pharoah’s heart? Because someone might see that as God overstepping the free will boundary for those of us who believe we have free will. I ask because the result of Pharoah’s hardened heart was the death of all the first born children in Egypt.

***Excellent question.

Every time God does this it is a response to sin. And it continues in the present times.

Because of the Sins of Luther, Calvin, Smith Ect. ALL of todays Protestants to varying degrees lack Faith, Wisdom and Understanding as a penalty from God for “serving other Gods.”

Other Gods? cIN a manner of speaking because they neither know God as we do,[the true God] or what God actually Teaches through His CC, and His Complete Catholic Bible; they effectively “serve a different God” by lack of understanding imposed by God.***

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [SINGULAR] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit"

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, chosen by God for His CC] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [Eucharist] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [Confirmed in the Catholic Faith] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [By those empowered by God to understand and share His Word; His CC[/COLOR]] if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

***Because they only worship as they are taught; there guilt is less than the founders of these new faiths." Stll God WILL JUDGE all of us based on what GOD PERMITS us to know; NOT just on what we accept or chose to know.

Love prayers,
Pat

If you have other questons on any topic just send me a PM message. I’l be happy to answer them for you.***

PJM