Other faiths do not have Confession...how is mortal sin 'forgiven?'

[Verbum_Caro]

keep in mind though Perfect contrition is RARE. . .

The extreme circumstance of perfect contrition. . .

THurifer,

Perhaps you are overstating this point? Why do you come to this conclusion?

VC

 

[Convert_in_99]

THurifer,

Perhaps you are overstating this point? Why do you come to this conclusion?

VC

From my point of veiw…I think that “perfect” contrition would vary from soul to soul. Someone with an mental/emotional disorder, someone who suffered great abuse, someone who wasn’t raised in faith, or who never knew faith…could not produce the same contrition as a saint, or even an ultra-devout life-long cradle catholic who has never known anything different.

Jesus knows exactly the capacity/capability each soul possesses and will judge them accordingly.

If we were all judged on the same standard of measurement…we’d ALL be in hell…because Mary “beat” us to heaven. Imagine THAT standard of judgment. :bigyikes:

 

[Greg27]

It depends on what you mean by ‘other faiths.’ If you are speaking about other Christian denominations, most have a fairly similar catalogue of sins. I assume a devout Protestant would recoil as much in horror from deliberate murder as would a devout Catholic. If we are talking about other religions, all the world’s religions have lists of sins which destroy the spiritual life, though some deadly sins in one religion are not in another (in Buddhism for example, deliberately killing any animal, even an insect, is a very grave sin, but it isn’t in Christianity). All religions and Christian denominations have certain ‘awful’ sins which place spiritual life in great danger, though the specifics may vary.

As an example in concrete which sheds light I think on this matter, in Buddhism if you murder your mother or father deliberately you are born into a hell realm of ice (like the eighth level of Dante’s Inferno) and you suffer there for billions or trillions of years - effectively eternity. Most religions seem to have a good sense then of really ‘grave’ sin.

 

[SemperTotusTuus]

A simple answer I have once heard: “We are bound by the sacraments, but God is not.” In fact I found something very similar about Baptisme in the Catechism: “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments” (Catechism, 1257; original emphasis).

 

[Convert_in_99]

A simple answer I have once heard: “We are bound by the sacraments, but God is not.” In fact I found something very similar about Baptisme in the Catechism: “God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments” (Catechism, 1257; original emphasis).

You would make an AWESOME priest. Kind, merciful, compassionate…just like Jesus. I will definately be praying for you!

 

[SemperTotusTuus]

You would make an AWESOME priest. Kind, merciful, compassionate…just like Jesus. I will definately be praying for you!

Thanks! I will be praying for you!

 

[steelboss]

“…Jesus gave authority to His Apostles to forgive sins…”

VERSE PLEASE!

 

[steelboss]

That is the point. Protestants by and large DO KNOW BETTER. They have chosen to deny the authority of the Catholic Church as the one true Church and have accepted instead whatever it is that they believe in its place
.
It is their choice. I know a lot of protestants including some in my own family. ALL of them, the adults that is, and I mean all of them know full well of the differences between their churches and Catholicism and they fully embrace the differences as being correct in their favor. To them, we as Catholics are not Christian, probably not saved and are doomed.

To say that they are not responsible for what they believe is just plain wrong.

I’ve been a protestant for 35 years, and only recently have begun to dealve into the Catholic tradition.
I assure you - most Protestants don’t give Catholics the slightest thought. They are happily born and raised as Baptists, Episcopaleans, etc, are quite comfortable and secure in their faith, and thus never have much reason to consider any other religion.
Why would a Protestant ever bother with the nuances of Catholicism?, since most Protestants believe Catholics are a bunch of idol worshiping heretics that are burning in hell anyways!

 

[Jimbo2]

Catholics - When considering a question like this, I know there is a strong temptation (especially when posting on a public internet site) to appear very merciful and magnanimous about Protestantism. Seperated Brethren and all that.

However, one thing you cannot do is disparage your own religion in the process.

Some of the theories posted in this thread seem to make Catholicism a disadvantage to salvation.

We get so caught up in the glories and wonders of “ignorance” that we start to think it can work greater miracles than grace.

This is not true. Being Catholic and living the sacramental life is the sure way to salvation. Everything else is less. Everything else is problematic, to say the least. Everything else is dangerous.

When you go off speculating on salvation on this or any other forum, keep in mind: If you theory makes it an advantage to be Protestant, or Muslim, or Pagan…then your theory is most certainly wrong. At very least, your theory must allow that being Catholic, and having the sacraments, is a wonderful advantage to salvation. Only then can it possibly be true.

 

[dbacks5439]

“…Jesus gave authority to His Apostles to forgive sins…”

VERSE PLEASE!

21
(Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit.
23
Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

John 20:21-23. Verse 21 gives the reason for Jesus' coming to the world, which is to reconcile Man to God. He gives that same charge to the Apostles. Verse 22 is the only other place in the Bible in which God breathes on Man. The first being in Genesis, when God breathed life into Man. Verse 23 gives the Apostles the authority to forgive and retain sins. 


 We also should look at Luke 5:20-24. "20

When he saw their faith, he said, “As for you, your sins are forgiven.”
21
Then the scribes and Pharisees began to ask themselves, “Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who but God alone can forgive sins?”
22
Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them in reply, "What are you thinking in your hearts?
23
Which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’?
24
But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins’’–he said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, rise, pick up your stretcher, and go home.”

The language that Jesus used to describe Himself is “Son of Man”, meaning that Jesus was referring to His human nature. Jesus is making explicit that Man can have authority to forgive sins, and that authority is given to the apostles in John 20: 21-23 and also in Mt 18:18

 

[palmas85]

I’ve been a protestant for 35 years, and only recently have begun to dealve into the Catholic tradition.
I assure you - most Protestants don’t give Catholics the slightest thought. They are happily born and raised as Baptists, Episcopaleans, etc, are quite comfortable and secure in their faith, and thus never have much reason to consider any other religion.
Why would a Protestant ever bother with the nuances of Catholicism?, since most Protestants believe Catholics are a bunch of idol worshiping heretics that are burning in hell anyways!

My point exactly. You guys know the differences, accept the differences and willingly endorse and embrace them.

 

[fatcats2]

If Protestants never give Catholics the slightest thought, why are they always attacking us.

 

[dbacks5439]

If Protestants never give Catholics the slightest thought, why are they always attacking us.

They don’t really investigate what we believe. They just see what people have been telling them for their entire lives and is mostly false and baseless.

 

[Trinity1984]

Luther himself said, “When I am urging you to go to confession I am simply urging you to be a Christian.”

The principle misunderstanding I see presented here is that Protestant Christians do not make confession. That is utterly false.

As a Lutheran I am not compelled by a law of the church to goto a confessional booth and enumerate one by one all the sins I have committed. This is available, and many people do take advantage of the ability to sit face to face with the priest and have him pronounce private absolution.

This does not mean that absolution is not announced generally every week. Our liturgy contains a place where we, as a congregation, make a general confession of our sin before God our Father. Upon personal reflection the priest pronounces absolution in the stead and by the command of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In my daily prayers confession is usually an intricate part. In the Lord’s prayer we are asking the Father to forgive us with as much frequency as he feeds us food! “…Give us this day our daily bread - and forgive us…” Just a coincidence that our Lord composed that prayer with those petitions back to back? Is that not a valid confession because its not in the ears of a priest?

Speaking of the sacrament of reconciliation I can remember mine vividly. Sacramental is an excellent word. I had strayed from the faith and had been living in unrepentant sin for around six years. After spending about five months encountering Jesus Christ in the scriptures I came to a moment one night where my heart was turned by the Holy Spirit. I experienced conversion, repented, and received the forgiveness Jesus Christ offers to all who receive Him. You know what was most amazing about this though? It was a real, living, personal contact with Jesus Christ Himself. I’ve never been the same since that moment. He rended the Heaven’s and pardoned me just as He did all those in His earthly ministry.

Now, this repentance - or turning back to the Lord was before Him alone. I did not do this in the presence of a priest nor did I confess all my sins to him. Honestly, my sins were so numerous it would have been impossible for me to do so. What I have experienced since that night is a continued practice of confession. Before receiving the Eucharist I will set some time aside on Saturday evening and examine my performance that week. You all know what follows…

Hope this sheds some light on the confusion over at least Lutheran piety.

 

[boppaid]

Because Jesus’ death on the Cross unlocked the door for us to go in, but He was not a substitute for us. We still have to walk through the door - He simply made it possible for us to do that. Not everyone does, though - and not everyone even wants to.

I don’t get this. In the OT, the people would sacrifice animals in the Tabernacle…there were many different sacrifices being offered: burnt sacrifices, sin offerings, etc. But one type was for their sins. In the NT we learn that Christ is the ULTIMATE sacrifice, that replaced the need for sin offerings in the tabernacle. So, if Christ is the PERFECT sacrifice, why on earth would his slaughter for our sins not be perfect enough to get us into heaven like the animals in the OT?

 

[boppaid]

It is their choice. I know a lot of protestants including some in my own family. ALL of them, the adults that is, and I mean all of them know full well of the differences between their churches and Catholicism and they fully embrace the differences as being correct in their favor. To them, we as Catholics are not Christian, probably not saved and are doomed.

In all honesty and reality, Protestants may know what the Catholic Church teaches, but they obviously don’t believe it (or they would be Catholic!). So, for their believing that they are worshiping and praising and loving God in the right way, how can God hold that against them? I don’t believe it!

 

[Harsalter]

So…my question is…if we are the only ones going to Confession…how are others’ sins being forgiven? (mortal) :

To be or not to be, that is the $64,000 question…

THAT is the MAIN reason I converted from baptist to Catholic. Plus I am not one who will “inherit” a religion, or accept the false doctrine from a few discontent heretics who left the church a few hundred years ago.

 

[Harsalter]

As a Lutheran I am not compelled by a law of the church to goto a confessional booth and enumerate one by one all the sins I have committed. This is available, and many people do take advantage of the ability to sit face to face with the priest and have him pronounce private absolution.

Lutherans still have the Apostolic Succession, the succession having been passed through unbroken lines of bishops beginning with the original Apostles, and their clergy still have the authority to forgive or retain sins?

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Absent sacramental confession or perfect contrition death in mortal sin = Hell!

That’s the truth! Being invincibly ignorant does not mean that you can’t committ mortal sin and Perfect contrition for one’ sins is difficult.

Bottom line: the chances for Hell are much greater outside the Catholic church!

Why? Because in the sacrament of reconciliation IMPERFECT contrition suffices and God makes up the difference in the Sacrament!

Could God make up the difference outside the sacrament?

Yes! God is not limited by the sacraments but we have nothing to indicate that He would.

Betting then on God working outside the sacrament and giving us such graces is in itself the sin of presumption which once again brings one into a state of mortal sin.

What you’ve really got to ask yourself is who would you want to bet your soul on–the Catholic Church which traces itself back to the apostles who Jesus gave authority to forgive sin

OR

Protestants 15 centuries later who “think” that Jesus did it all on the cross so we wouldn’t really have to do anything!

Just notice–Jesus gave that authority to Forgive and Retain sin to the disciples AFTER Calvary!

Why would Jesus give them that authority if He had already done it all? Why would he give them the power to RETAIN sin?

Does that sound like what the Protestants say about forgiveness 15 centuries later?

Who would you rather bet your soul on?

Heaven and Hell awaits your decision!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Perfect contrition for one’ sins is difficult.

Hi Jerry,

I often see this asserted, and more often than not, the implication is that perfect contrition is rare. What’s your take on it?

(No intention to take the force out of your argument or sidetrack you. . . you make excellent points. )

VC