Other faiths do not have Confession...how is mortal sin 'forgiven?'

[Harsalter]

Hi Jerry,

I often see this asserted, and more often than not, the implication is that perfect contrition is rare. What’s your take on it?

(No intention to take the force out of your argument or sidetrack you. . . you make excellent points. )

VC

According to Fr. Serpa, perfect contrition on mortal sin means that you confess to God because you are truly sorry, not afraid of hell. I quote from forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=175225
*
“Should one be in danger of death, one may make a perfect act of contrition. Such an act must be the result of one’s sorrow for having offended God rather than simply the desire to avoid the punishments of hell.”*

Fr. Vincent Serpa, O.P.

BUT, and a big BUT, but once one is out of imminent danger, one must then take his mortal sins to confession. So in my opinion and this is my opinion from what I have heard and read, that if a baptist truly repents on his death bed, and if the repenting is not from fear of hell, this should be sufficient.

But we do have a very merciful God and I don’t think we should as Catholics try to put a limit on that mercy. But for me I wanted to be sure, so I converted from baptist so I have available to me ALL the sacraments Christ instituted. I don’t know about others, but I need all the help I can get and a watered down version of Christianity wasn’t doing me any good.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The reason perfect contrition is rare is because it springs 100% from pure love of God and not from guilt in anyway whatsoever or of fear of punishment in any way whatsoever.

Most of the time–even if we are 99% contrite we aren’t 100% contrite!

That’s why Jesus gave us confession.

Even the saints availed themselves of confession and they certainly loved God more than most of us.

If they fled to it–if they knew they weren’t perfectly contrite–then how much more so for the average Catholic or the average non-Catholic?

I’m not saying it never happens. I think that the good thief had perfect contrition for his sins and he was a great sinner.

I just think that it is quite rare.

If I am wrong may someone correct me.

Now Catholics make Acts of contrition all the time–basically a promise in a prayer to God to confess their sins to a priest at the first available opportunity.

God who knows human hearts and souls knows if they are going to fulfill their promise. That’s why they are covered if they were to die before going to confession to a priest.

That doesn’t mean that they were perfectly contrite–maybe they were but probably they weren’t but in any event God gives them mercy because He knows that they would have confessed to a priest if they had the opportunity.

See for Catholics not to die in a state of mortal Sin they must either confess to a priest before death–not have mortal sins on their soul at death–or make an act of contrition prior to death.

If they do none of these things and die in a state of mortal sin–just one single mortal sin–yes they go to Hell!

The reason people don’t like these truths is because it is difficult. Many–even some Catholics want the easy way of once saved always saved.

That is the wide road that leads to Hell and Protestants and Catholics and other religions and agnostics and atheists can easily travel it!

Always do what Paul commanded “work out your salvation with fear and trembleing”!

If you never fear and if you never tremble you should be worried and get down on your knees and pray “Have Mercy on me a sinner” and then run to the nearest Catholic priest and confess your sins through him straight to Jesus!

That’s the real narrow way that leads to Heaven!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

The reason perfect contrition is rare is because it springs 100% from pure love of God and not from guilt in anyway whatsoever or of fear of punishment in any way whatsoever.

Hi Jerry,

Thank you for your response! You obviously have a great love and zeal for the Sacrament of Confession, and in no way do I wish to detract from anything you said in regard to the sacrament’s value and necessity.

The reason I asked about Perfect Contrition is that sometimes one can have the impression that Perfect Contrition is perfect in the sense you describe above – completely pure, and having no other motive than the love of God.

But Perfect Contrition, as I understand it, at least in relation to the forgiveness of sins, doesn’t mean sorrow for sin out of love of God only, but sorrow for sin arising out of the love of God primarily.

If one’s primary motive for sorrow is offending God then one can still have a secondary motive for sorrow such as fear of the pain of hell, and still have Perfect Contrition.

Thus the classical Act of Contrition actually expresses Perfect Contrition because it states “because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all, because I have offended you.” If one were to allign one’s interior dispostion with the words expressed in this Act of Contrition one would indeed have Perfect Contrition.

God bless you!
What do you think?
VC

 

[Jerry-Jet]

I don’t know. Maybe you’re right. Maybe perfect contrition for sin is much less rare than say a plenary indulgence where one would have no attachment to sin whatsoever.

Even though if it is primarily out of love for God–how many non-Catholics with no recourse to the sacraments which help a person not sink deeper and deeper into a multitude of mortal sins–how many of them confess their sins everyday out of primarily a love for God and not punishment or guilt?

Certainly there may be more but it is more chancey that one would have that diposition without the sacraments.

I never have heard exactly how difficult or how rare it is for one to have perfect contrition for their sins.

Has the church definitely taught on the subject?

Making the act of perfect contrition and desiring to have that contrition and actually having it or two different things.

Is that right or wrong? Someone please educate me!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Jerry,

I want to respond right now only to your question regarding the the definition of perfect contrition, and not the other parts of your post (such as your observation about the disposition for perfect contrition, its rarity, etc.).

The Catechism states
1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity).

Unfortunately if we don’t read this carefully we might get the impression that perfect contrition must exclude any other motives. But that isn’t what this section says. It says only that perfect contrition must arise from a love of God. It is telling us what is necessary and sufficent for perfect contrition but it is not exclusive. In other words it doesn’t say “When it arises SOLELY from a love by which God is loved above all else. . .”

(This same point can be applied to Fr. Serpa’s answer below: “Such an act must be the result of one’s sorrow for having offended God rather than simply the desire to avoid the punishments of hell.” Fr. Serpa only says that sorrow for offending God must be a motive (the primary one) but doesn’t have to be the only motive.)

Fr. John Hardon defines perfect contrition in his Catholic Dictionary:

in the act of perfect contrition other motives can coexist with the perfect love required. There can be fear or gratitude, or even lesser motives such as self-respect and self-interest, along with the dominant reason for sorrow, which is love for God.

The same is echoed in Catholic Answers This Rock magazine(Quick Questions) February 2003 (Vol 14, #2) response (see last question, bottom of page)

Both kinds of contrition, which are not mutually exclusive, assume the resolve to sin no more.

I think the confusion stems from the word “perfect” in perfect contrition. Contrition is perfected by love. So to make an Act of Perfect Contrition one must be motived by love of God. Other motives are not sufficient.

What do you think?
VC

 

[Jerry-Jet]

So what is the difference between Perfect contrition and Imperefect contrition which Suffices in the Sacrament of Reconciliation?

Exactly how much more Primary is Perfect Contrition than Imperfect Contrition?

You are quite right–many times we do have more than one motive when we go to Confession and there is nothing wrong with fearing the punishment of God or wanting to avoid purgatory or Hell.

Perfect contrition Must be more rare than common because if it were common there would be no need for confession in the first place.

God wouldn’t have to make up for our lack of perfect contrition in the Sacrament of Reconciliation because it would be easy for us to be perfectly contrite.

And to be sure that is not all that happens in confession.

I just really believe that Catholics who go to Confession once a year and think that any acts of contrition they may make during that year will cover them as they take their sweet time in going to a priest to confession are wrong.

Don’t tell me that doesn’t happen!

And don’t tell me that millions of Catholics don’t take the Eucharist week after week after week without going to confession.

We all know that is the case.

We also know that many Catholic saints have habitually gone to confession–they thought their sins were many and grievous.

Now who do you think is closer to right on that issue–the saints–or the million and millions of Catholics who every week take the Eucharist without any worry of committing mortal sin at all?

Look–if that many people week after week never Mortally sin we should have at least a 100,000 new saints proclaimed every year!

And don’t get me wrong–I’m not advocating Scrupulosity–all I’m saying is that Perfect Contrition isn’t that common–that’s one of the reasons we need the Sacrament of Reconcilliation.

The other thing I’m saying is even if you Do make an Act of Contrition for your sins–do you think God is pleased with anyone taking their sweet time to go confess to a priest?

A person wouldn’t do that if it concerned their taxes or their job.

Is God less than their taxes or their job?

And no one should be partaking of the Eucharist if they have made an act of contrition and haven’t yet confessed to a priest.

Where the Catholics who think that they RARELY Mortally sin and are always Perfectly Contrite and where the Protestants who think that they can just confess directly to God whenever they FEEL they should get it wrong is that they BOTH underestimate the GRIEVOUSNESS of sin.

Adam and Eve got threw out of the Garden of Eden, lost sanctifying grace, and had to face death, them and all their descendents over just 1 Mortal sin!

Just 1 Mortal sin on one’s soul at death = Hell!

But if you don’t believe me that it is quite often that we don’t know if we are perfectly contrite for our sins just ask Father Corapi.

I don’t know if you’ll be convinced or not but I will say this: In how many of Our Lady’s Apparitions that have been approved by the Catholic Church does she say “PENANCE”!

Me and the saints and Father Corapi will advocate people going to Confession because we aren’t sure that we’re perfectly contrite.

If we’re wrong and Perfect Contrition is common then PERFECTLY follow through on that Perfect Contriteness and go to Confession also!

If everyone were to do that then it wouldn’t matter if we knew if perfect contrition was common or rare!

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Jerry,

I understand what you are saying, and you seem to be a bit worked up, which is understandable and commendable given the seriousness of the topic.

But please re-read my posts: I wanted to focus solely on the definition of Perfect Contrition. To say that perfect contrition requires one to have as the sole motive love of God would be inacccurate. And, given the seriousness of the topic we should strive for accuracy.

It is a great act of charity for us to explain to those who are in sin about perfect contrition and to help them make an act of contrition as soon as possible. I believe Fr. Corapi himself has written that perfect contrition can be expressed through the (standard) Act of Contrition. The Act contains love of God as the primary motive but also secondary motives. That is my point. If we were to say that perfect contrition requires only one pure motive then we lay a greater burden than the Chruch Herself requires.

(Again, I am not addressing the other points, such as:
1)The Sacrament of Confession is the normative way Christ established for the forgivness of sins after baptism; 2) A Catholic is required to have the intention of confessing as soon as possible in order for an act of perfect contrition to forgive sins outside of the sacrament. 3) A Catholic has a grave obligation to confess his sins as soon as possible after making an act of perfect contrtion extra-sacramentally. 4) Perfect contrition suffices for a non-catholic because they would have at least the implicit intention of confessing sacramentally if they knew and understood the norm; 5) The Sacrament is the only certain way to know our sins are forgiven; etc.)

God Bless you,
VC

 

[jmcrae]

When you go off speculating on salvation on this or any other forum, keep in mind: If you theory makes it an advantage to be Protestant, or Muslim, or Pagan…then your theory is most certainly wrong. At very least, your theory must allow that being Catholic, and having the sacraments, is a wonderful advantage to salvation. Only then can it possibly be true.

AMEN!!

 

[Cancerian]

As a Lutheran I am not compelled by a law of the church to goto a confessional booth and enumerate one by one all the sins I have committed. This is available, and many people do take advantage of the ability to sit face to face with the priest and have him pronounce private absolution…

Can some-one who knows better give a breakdown of what other faiths do have confession and what form it takes? Because, off the top of my head, I think I’ve heard reference to the following having it:

*Coptic Christians

• Orthodox Christians
  *The High Church or Anglo-Catholic form of Anglicanism
• Lutherans – as above. Though having lived in a Lutheran Country, I don’t remember seeing confessional booths in any of the churches.

 

[LilyM]

I am still not seeing why God would bring up prior sins…or throw them up in our face during Judgement Day, if we have been forgiven? Many priests throughout my life have told me, once you confess and repent…God wipes the slate clean.

It’s unbiblical to suggest that confessed and absolved sins are brought up against us.

The Psalms say ‘as far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed your transgressions from you’. A God who inspires those words would NOT remind Himself or us of our repented sins.

I rather trust another anecdotal report in which the person having a near-death experience asked God ‘which was the worst sin I committed in my life?’

God’s answer? ‘The sins you have repented and confessed no longer exist to me’.

 

[Beyrak]

God’s answer? ‘The sins you have repented and confessed no longer exist to me’.

True and they are forgiven. But we may spend time in purgatory for our forgiven sins.

As many a priest has explained to his parish, if a child breaks a window by throwing a ball through it a parent will forgive him. But the child may be held accountable to pay for the broken window.

Our sins will be forgiven if we repent, but we are still building up a debt in purgatory for every sin we commit, even if we repent.

The alternative is not to repent in confession and spend eternity in hell.

 

[whatevergirl]

Wow–these last replies…are amazing…thank you for your post and insights. As usual, I forgot I posted this thread…and saw it tonight, and thought–wow, I have learned so much. I particularly love the posts about ‘perfect contrition,’ because I too was a bit hazy on the exact meaning or implication of that. Thanks everyone!

 

[LilyM]

True and they are forgiven. But we may spend time in purgatory for our forgiven sins.

As many a priest has explained to his parish, if a child breaks a window by throwing a ball through it a parent will forgive him. But the child may be held accountable to pay for the broken window.

Our sins will be forgiven if we repent, but we are still building up a debt in purgatory for every sin we commit, even if we repent.

The alternative is not to repent in confession and spend eternity in hell.

That’s where the notion of indulgences comes in - they help us to pay off all or part of that debt while we’re on earth. If we make a daily effort to gain plenary (complete) or partial indulgences, then we won’t necessarily build up much of a debt for the afterlife.

So people, the moral is to do as many indulgenced acts as possible - even something as simple as blessing yourself with Holy Water carries a partial indulgence! So can your daily rosary, your adoration (if it’s more than half-and hour and you meet all the other conditions it becomes plenary) or scripture reading (likewise).

Look in the Enchiridion of Indulgences (available online) which lists most of 'em.

 

[Anacharius]

The damage must be repaired, the sacrifice and suffering of other people, namely the Clergy includes Brother’s, Nun’s, and those select laity that understand and have a Apostolic Zeal for the salvation of souls, IN HOPES, by, and of their suffering labors will bring about the conversion of sinners and non-believers.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

In that link, Jesus said to Stanley:

Our sins were forgiven but not forgotten. They are forever recorded in our life’s book. When you have time, read that link. It is very long, but very amazing. After realizing the reality that everyone will be reviewing his or her life book, I made up my mind to strive for holiness. I cannot imagine how painful it will be to watch all my sins in life, with my Lord standing beside me. Even thinking about it makes me weep. And how much I am grateful for the Sacrament of Confession!!

That’s not what Scripture says:

Jer. 31:34
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west,So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Those are just two that I can think of off the top of their head.

There is also the story of a saint who was having visions of our Lord who would tell her confessor of the visions (I’m sure someone can give the refefrence to which saint it is, but it’s late and I can’t recall it right now). One time, the confessor told her to ask the Lord what was the last mortal sin the confessor confessed. The Lord told her, “I don’t remember” and she went back and told her confessor which proved to the confessor the truth of her claims.

It is satan who is the one who will stand to accuse us of our sins after they’ve been wiped away in the Sacrament of Confession, not the Lord.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

This is true…keep in mind though Perfect contrition is RARE.
The catholic church teaches that Mortal sin is

1)Grave Matter ( somthing very serious or commandment violation)
2)Full Knowlege ( knew it was a sin)
3)Deliberate consent. ( did it anyway by use of free will)

That is it PERIOD! Is has been discussed here countless times before that one can be unaware of a mortal sin.

Does a Scooby-Doo sounding “huh!?”

How can an action meet all three conditions for a mortal sin and one NOT know it’s a mortal sin? If someone commits a mortal sin, they KNOW what they’re doing, period. Otherwise one of the conditions would be missing and it would be mitigated to venial.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Can some-one who knows better give a breakdown of what other faiths do have confession and what form it takes? Because, off the top of my head, I think I’ve heard reference to the following having it:

*Coptic Christians

• Orthodox Christians
  *The High Church or Anglo-Catholic form of Anglicanism
• Lutherans – as above. Though having lived in a Lutheran Country, I don’t remember seeing confessional booths in any of the churches.

Lutheran confessions is usually done face to face in the pastor’s office. That’s what I did when I became Lutheran…and I availed myself of it a few times. Of course, when I became Catholic, I had to do it all over again…and again and again and again…I really need to stop sinning so darn much. Looks up confession times at the local cathedral

 

[Beyrak]

That’s not what Scripture says:

Jer. 31:34
No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west,So far has He removed our transgressions from us.

Those are just two that I can think of off the top of their head.

There is also the story of a saint who was having visions of our Lord who would tell her confessor of the visions (I’m sure someone can give the refefrence to which saint it is, but it’s late and I can’t recall it right now). One time, the confessor told her to ask the Lord what was the last mortal sin the confessor confessed. The Lord told her, “I don’t remember” and she went back and told her confessor which proved to the confessor the truth of her claims.

It is satan who is the one who will stand to accuse us of our sins after they’ve been wiped away in the Sacrament of Confession, not the Lord.

In the final judgement, we are all judged together and all will know everyone’s sins. That means your neighbor will know your’s and you will know your neighbor’s. Your wife will know your’s and you will then know your wife’s.

There is a reason for purgatory.

 

[Beyrak]

It is satan who is the one who will stand to accuse us of our sins after they’ve been wiped away in the Sacrament of Confession, not the Lord.

He won’t be accusing us or holding them against us if they were confessed and repented. But it is very difficult for anyone to be perfectly contrite, the reason for the sacrament of reconcilliation.

In the final judgement, we are all judged together and all will know everyone’s sins, the sins we have committed since our baptism. Any sins before our baptism are forgiven and FORGOTTEN. For cradle Catholics who were baptised as infants, not much help, eh. But better to be baptised than not.

This means your neighbor will know your’s and you will know your neighbor’s. Your wife will know your’s and you will then know your wife’s.

We will need to be cleansed and made holy in purgatory unless that great step has been made on earth.

The important thing is still that they have been forgiven if we confessed them and were repentent, and we will not be held accountable to spend eternity in hell for them.

 

[Fr_Don_OPA]

I can speak to Anglican practise. Whike it is true that so-called High Church or Anglo-Catholics use the sacrament more often than other Anglicans, a Rite has been provided for sacramental confessions in The Book of Common Prayer since the English reformation. The Canadian Prayer Book absolution reads as follows.

“Our Lord Jesus Christ, who has left power to his Church to absolve all sinners who truly repent and believe in him: Of his great mercy forgive thee thine offences. And by his authority committed to me, I absolve thee from all thy sins, In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.”

The Anglican Ordinal at the laying on of hands reads;

" Receive the holy Ghost for the office and work of a priest in the Church of God, now committed unto thee by the imposition of our hands. Whose sins thou dost forgive, they are forgiven; and whose sins thou dost retain, they are retained. Be thou a faithful dispenser of the word of God, and of his Holy Sacraments; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen."

In practise far few Anglicans take advantage of the grace available inj the Sacrament of Confession. Pax et bonum Fr Don OPA