other "gods"

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Sir_Knight

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I was presented with the question that if there are no other “gods”, why would the first commandment given to Moses prohibit the worship of other “gods”? If there are no other “gods”, then there is nothing to worship. I tried to explain that it forbid the worship of idols AS “gods” but I was shot down on that approach.

Can anybody offer some assistance with this – how do I argue that the first commandment does not imply that other “gods” exist?
 
The other gods were the gods of paganism. Moses having been eucated in the Egptian cults was familiar with the various aspects of psychology and the figures of human history that had been falsly deified by the Egyptians. The first creative works of God in Genesis establishes that what the Egyptians worshipped as deities were mere creations of The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The sun, moon, stars, winged creatures animals etc… The golden calf of noteriety was chiefly addressed at the time the finger of God carved the commandments into the stone tablets.

The powers of nature were deified by the indiginous peoples that the Hebrews would displace after their time in the desert.
The nature cults of the peoples who populated the land of canaan. These are included as well. The Prophetic age that followed the time of Moses addressed these gods. Primarily the power of fertility was worshipped as the the creator in the form of a mother. Creation was believed to issue from her womb. This mother deity is the primary god of the fertility cults. Known in Greece as well as Diana with a temple that served her and issued her oracles. The pagan personification of the powers of nature were fabrications that offered fallen spirits a platform to decieve with shows of preternatural power that were mistakenly believed to be divine manifestations of 'other’Gods. The members of the fallen spiritual community served by the nature cults of Canaan are the gods most considered by the commandment to worship no other god’s. These are the demons that were the deceptive power that seduced the sons of God to marry the daughters of men in Genesis 6. These are the infamous powers of deception that used Balaam who taught Balak how to seduce the Hebrew men to have sexual relations with the canaanite women. A repeat of ancient history preserved in the Genesis 6 account.

Anyway, those are the ‘other’ gods at the time addressed by the commandment. excuse my excessive wordiness on this subject. Peace to you Sir Knight.
 
You’re right that they don’t exist and therefore worship to them is not worship in the technical sense. This is the argument Paul uses in 1 Corinthians 8 in justifying the eating of food sacrificed to idols when you’re simply hungry. But the intent of a person creates a god in their mind and that is what idolatry is (1 Corinthians 10) and this is what the commandment means.
 
Benadam said:
The other gods were the gods of paganism. Moses having been eucated in the Egptian cults was familiar with the various aspects of psychology and the figures of human history that had been falsly deified by the Egyptians. The first creative works of God in Genesis establishes that what the Egyptians worshipped as deities were mere creations of The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The sun, moon, stars, winged creatures animals etc… The golden calf of noteriety was chiefly addressed at the time the finger of God carved the commandments into the stone tablets.

The powers of nature were deified by the indiginous peoples that the Hebrews would displace after their time in the desert.
The nature cults of the peoples who populated the land of canaan. These are included as well. The Prophetic age that followed the time of Moses addressed these gods. Primarily the power of fertility was worshipped as the the creator in the form of a mother. Creation was believed to issue from her womb. This mother deity is the primary god of the fertility cults. Known in Greece as well as Diana with a temple that served her and issued her oracles. The pagan personification of the powers of nature were fabrications that offered fallen spirits a platform to decieve with shows of preternatural power that were mistakenly believed to be divine manifestations of 'other’Gods. The members of the fallen spiritual community served by the nature cults of Canaan are the gods most considered by the commandment to worship no other god’s. These are the demons that were the deceptive power that seduced the sons of God to marry the daughters of men in Genesis 6. These are the infamous powers of deception that used Balaam who taught Balak how to seduce the Hebrew men to have sexual relations with the canaanite women. A repeat of ancient history preserved in the Genesis 6 account.

Anyway, those are the ‘other’ gods at the time addressed by the commandment. excuse my excessive wordiness on this subject. Peace to you Sir Knight.
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Thank you.
 
anything that you NEED more than God or Gods will is an idol or false god if you will.
 
Sir_Knight said:
I was presented with the question that if there are no other “gods”, why would the first commandment given to Moses prohibit the worship of other “gods”? If there are no other “gods”, then there is nothing to worship. I tried to explain that it forbid the worship of idols AS “gods” but I was shot down on that approach.

Can anybody offer some assistance with this – how do I argue that the first commandment does not imply that other “gods” exist?
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Yes the other gods were pagan gods, quite familiar to the Jews (Baal) with whom the Jews had to struggle as some initially in Judaism worshiped or tried to worship Jahweh with Baal or Asherah.

Some historians of Judaism argue that it - Judaism - started out as a Henotheistic Faith before becoming strictly Monotheistic. See the wikipedia article on Henotheism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism
 
I think there was probably an evolution of understanding among the Jews over time. Obviously the other nations around them worshiped other gods, real or imagined. They spent time in Egypt, where the Egyptians worshiped many gods. Throughout much of the Old Testament the Jews are tempted to (and sometimes do) worship other gods. When Moses disappears on the mountain for too long, they begin to grumble and lose heart, so Aaron makes a god for them (“I tossed the gold into the fire, and shazam, there was this golden calf!”) In the conquest of Canaan, the Israelites are forbidden to intermarry with the other nations, or even to keep the golden “booty” taken from the temples, as this might tempt them to go off and worship the gods of these nations, rather than the God of Israel. Early on there is definitely a sense among the Israelites that maybe there is something to these other gods of the other nations. Especially when things aren’t going so well, they have a tendency to abandon their God and worship one of these others, in case maybe that works out better. Things were much better when we were in Egypt, perhaps we should go back to those ways, etc.

There’s a change in thinking that is clearly apparent by the time of the story of Elijah and the prophets of Baal (I think this is in 1 Kings) - this makes clear that there is no god but God, and that Baal is not really there (or as Elijah says, perhaps he is busy relieving himself…) Even so, the Israelites still turn away from God from time to time; the metaphor of adultery is used, e.g. in Hosea. Probably comes up again and again during the periods of exile, surrounded once again by foreign people worshiping foreign gods.

To sum it up, the covenant that God makes with the Israelites is essentially that you will be my people, and I will be your God. To believe in, trust in, pray to, offer sacrifice to, or otherwise worship other gods is to cease to trust in the one true God, and is thus to break the covenant.

A crude analogy might be that you can sin against your wife by getting caught up in pornography, which is depicting a fantasy, simply by engaging your imagination in it - directing the faculty of erotic love to a figment of your imagination for your own selfish ends, rather than to the proper subject, i.e. your wife, in a self-giving fashion. Clearly it’s not the same thing as idolotry, but there is this element of sinning by going after a fantasy that exists only in your own mind.
 
Benadam said:
The other gods were the gods of paganism. Moses having been eucated in the Egptian cults was familiar with the various aspects of psychology and the figures of human history that had been falsly deified by the Egyptians. The first creative works of God in Genesis establishes that what the Egyptians worshipped as deities were mere creations of The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The sun, moon, stars, winged creatures animals etc… The golden calf of noteriety was chiefly addressed at the time the finger of God carved the commandments into the stone tablets.

The powers of nature were deified by the indiginous peoples that the Hebrews would displace after their time in the desert.
The nature cults of the peoples who populated the land of canaan. These are included as well. The Prophetic age that followed the time of Moses addressed these gods. Primarily the power of fertility was worshipped as the the creator in the form of a mother. Creation was believed to issue from her womb. This mother deity is the primary god of the fertility cults. Known in Greece as well as Diana with a temple that served her and issued her oracles. The pagan personification of the powers of nature were fabrications that offered fallen spirits a platform to decieve with shows of preternatural power that were mistakenly believed to be divine manifestations of 'other’Gods. The members of the fallen spiritual community served by the nature cults of Canaan are the gods most considered by the commandment to worship no other god’s. These are the demons that were the deceptive power that seduced the sons of God to marry the daughters of men in Genesis 6. These are the infamous powers of deception that used Balaam who taught Balak how to seduce the Hebrew men to have sexual relations with the canaanite women. A repeat of ancient history preserved in the Genesis 6 account.

Anyway, those are the ‘other’ gods at the time addressed by the commandment. excuse my excessive wordiness on this subject. Peace to you Sir Knight.
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I’m just wondering, are their any actual books, encyclicals, blogs, etc. written on this subject? The “God of Abraham” vs “Pagan gods or dities”. If not by a priest, bishop, cardinal… then maybe a Catholic theologan. I have been researching this topic and have got no where. I’m sure someone at some time in Catholisism must have addressed this issue since apparently there are still a quarter of the population (ie hindu’s etc) that still believe their gods are real. I am interested in comparisons that also don’t involve direct scripture, because it’s impossible to prove to a non believer using a book he/she doesn’t believe in. any thoughts or ideas?

Peace be with you in Christ,

SK
 
I would disagree with 123rock, in that St. Paul and the early Fathers of the Church, as well as the Jews, felt that the “gods” of the other nations did in fact exist, but that they were demons who tricked their followers into worship - one of the reason the earliest baptismal rite included a minor exorcism to rid the former followers of pagan religions of such demonic influences (and continued to do so until Vatican II).

Paul wrote that the gods worshipped as idols are actually only demons:

1 Corinthians 10:19-20: “19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.”

1 Corinthians 8:5-6: 5 “For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”

The Jews felt the same way: “For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils: but the Lord made the heavens.” Psalm 96:5
 
This can get really tricky with regards to other belief systems, which i believe hold some Truth
CCC: 28 In many ways, throughout history down to the present day, men have given expression to their quest for God in their religious beliefs and behaviour: in their prayers, sacrifices, rituals, meditations, and so forth. These forms of religious expression, despite the ambiguities they often bring with them, are so universal that one may well call man a religious being:
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the gods referred to in the first commandment, as i understand it refer to:
  • imaginary gods: the idol that can be bribed to do one’s bidding: golden calves
  • god’s such as money, sex, fame, power. We devote our energies, time, even our entire lives to earthly pursuits that may contain some good but offer nothing of permanence, nothing of that which has true value: love, nothing that will ever fulfill us.
God has made himself known in different ways to different peoples; I don’t consider these understandings as being of other gods.
 
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