Other Parishes

[Dorothy]

An elderly woman in my neighborhood yelled at me for going to Mass at a Church other than the local Parish. Still going by the old days lol

Some Masses I’ve been to have the music

Yes, some people still think that rule applies. They think it is an “article of faith” and can’t change! lol

It is great when the music is uplifting!

 

[divinefaith]

Yes, some people still think that rule applies. They think it is an “article of faith” and can’t change! lol

It is great when the music is uplifting!

Was it ever a Church law though?

 

[ConstantineTG]

It is our responsibility to support the parish in our locale. Remember, a parish is put up in an area to service the residents of that area.

 

[FrDavid96]

Can. 515 §1. A parish is a certain community of the Christian faithful stably constituted in a particular church, whose pastoral care is entrusted to a pastor (parochus) as its proper pastor (pastor) under the authority of the diocesan bishop.

Can. 518 As a general rule a parish is to be territorial, that is, one which includes all the Christian faithful of a certain territory. When it is expedient, however, personal parishes are to be established determined by reason of the rite, language, or nationality of the Christian faithful of some territory, or even for some other reason.

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

Can. 100 A person is said to be: a resident (incola) in the place where the person has a domicile; a temporary resident (advena) in the place where the person has a quasi-domicile; a traveler (peregrinus) if the person is outside the place of a domicile or quasi-domicile which is still retained; a transient (vagus) if the person does not have a domicile or quasi- domicile anywhere.

Can. 102 §1. Domicile is acquired by that residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there permanently unless called away or has been protracted for five complete years.
§2. Quasi-domicile is acquired by residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there for at least three months unless called away or has in fact been protracted for three months.
§3. A domicile or quasi-domicile within the territory of a parish is called parochial; within the territory of a diocese, even though not within a parish, diocesan.

Can. 519 The pastor (parochus) is the proper pastor (pastor) of the parish entrusted to him, exercising the pastoral care of the community committed to him under the authority of the diocesan bishop in whose ministry of Christ he has been called to share, so that for that same community he carries out the functions of teaching, sanctifying, and governing, also with the cooperation of other presbyters or deacons and with the assistance of lay members of the Christian faithful, according to the norm of law.

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_INDEX.HTM

 

[Brendan]

Well, ideally, I suppose a dispensation would be made for that.

As FrDavid noted, Canon 518 establishes the concept of ‘personal parishes’. Critieria for that includes Language.

Here in Detroit, there are a few parishes that have been noted as being ‘personal parish’ of the Latin language.

Their are no geographic boundries for such a parish.

As such, persons who are attracted to the Mass in Latin can, with no issue, register at such a parish.

Another example is that the nearest parish to my house is actually a Polish language personal parish, so even though it is the closest parish to my house, I am not a parishoner there, Canonically or otherwise.

That parish has no boundries. If someone even lives next door to the parish, they would be geographically members of a different parish.

But a person of Polish decent, or even one who is interested in having the Sacraments offereing the the Polish language, may register there no matter what distance they live from that parish.

 

[TrueLight]

Well, ideally, I suppose a dispensation would be made for that.

I specifically asked this question of the priest where I attend mass and he told me that it is no longer the case. Especially in a place like NYC. Is he mistaken?

 

[TrueLight]

As FrDavid noted, Canon 518 establishes the concept of ‘personal parishes’. Critieria for that includes Language.

Here in Detroit, there are a few parishes that have been noted as being ‘personal parish’ of the Latin language.

Their are no geographic boundries for such a parish.

As such, persons who are attracted to the Mass in Latin can, with no issue, register at such a parish.

Another example is that the nearest parish to my house is actually a Polish language personal parish, so even though it is the closest parish to my house, I am not a parishoner there, Canonically or otherwise.

That parish has no boundries. If someone even lives next door to the parish, they would be geographically members of a different parish.

But a person of Polish decent, or even one who is interested in having the Sacraments offereing the the Polish language, may register there no matter what distance they live from that parish.

Thanks for the translation.

 

[FrDavid96]

As FrDavid noted, Canon 518 establishes the concept of ‘personal parishes’. Critieria for that includes Language.

Here in Detroit, there are a few parishes that have been noted as being ‘personal parish’ of the Latin language.

Their are no geographic boundries for such a parish.

As such, persons who are attracted to the Mass in Latin can, with no issue, register at such a parish.

Another example is that the nearest parish to my house is actually a Polish language personal parish, so even though it is the closest parish to my house, I am not a parishoner there, Canonically or otherwise.

That parish has no boundries. If someone even lives next door to the parish, they would be geographically members of a different parish.

But a person of Polish decent, or even one who is interested in having the Sacraments offereing the the Polish language, may register there no matter what distance they live from that parish.

Personal parishes might or might not have boundaries. For example, a Polish parish might include all the Polish people in a given county, but the next county has a different parish. It depends upon how the bishop establishes the parish. Just because a parish is “personal” doesn’t mean that it necessarily has no defined territory.

In any case, a parish (personal or otherwise) cannot extend beyond the boundaries of a diocese because every parish is a part of that particular diocese. So, even if they aren’t defined, or if the parish includes the entire diocese, the boundaries of a personal parish always end where the neighboring diocese begins.

 

[PiousTemplar]

If it were a rule than I would be attending the OF. There are no EF masses in my neighborhood.

I heard you had your first confession today! How was it? Did you embarass yourself by crying all the way through it, like I did back in RCIA 6 months ago?

 

[FrDavid96]

I specifically asked this question of the priest where I attend mass and he told me that it is no longer the case. Especially in a place like NYC. Is he mistaken?

You can attend Mass anywhere.

You are only a member/parishioner of the parish where you live.

As far as that particular personal parish is concerned, it would depend upon how the bishop established the boundaries for that personal parish. Just by way of an imaginary example there might be one personal Extraordinary Form parish for Brooklyn and another for Queens.

 

[TrueLight]

You can attend Mass anywhere.

You are only a member/parishioner of the parish where you live.

As far as that particular personal parish is concerned, it would depend upon how the bishop established the boundaries for that personal parish. Just by way of an imaginary example there might be one personal Extraordinary Form parish for Brooklyn and another for Queens.

I concede I am probably looking at it with Protestant eyes, but the whole thing makes no sense to me.

All I know is that I am registered at a Parish in Manhattan and contribute financially there, even though I live in Brooklyn. If I were to ever remarry, it would not be in some strange parish in Brooklyn that I have never attended. If I need the anointing of the sick, or funeral rites, I would hope it would be at a Parish where the pastor knows me and where the parishioners know me.

 

[TrueLight]

I heard you had your first confession today! How was it? Did you embarass yourself by crying all the way through it, like I did back in RCIA 6 months ago?

Yes, I did have my first confession! I didn’t cry. I did rattle off my sins in a small little girl voice (which is quite amazing for me) and when I walked out, my lips were trembling a bit and I had to blink quickly a couple of times.

 

[silicasandra]

When DH and I registered as members at our parish, we were told that we had to live in the one of the local communities (two to be specific) or we had to receive special permissions to register there. I am not sure if that is particular to our parish or to the Pittsburgh diocese, but if you want to get married in our church you have to be members - and lots of people like the architecture, etc. It is a beautiful, traditional building. So there may be people who try and do a “workaround” so they can become members of the parish to marry there even if they don’t intend on staying - just so they can get married there. Hence why the residency requirement is in place.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

Here in northern Virginia I know people who lived outside of our parish boundry, which we still have and it is based on geography, who had to petition (via letter) our pastor to seek permision to become member of parish. The letter as I understand it is mostly a formality that is forwarded to the bishop. Parish shopping is frowned upon here. Besides in our diocese if you don’t like a priest wait two or three years and its likely the bishop will move him for you.

 

[Phemie]

Was it ever a Church law though?

As I understand it, you “belong” to your geographic parish, unless you are part of an ethnic or other type of parish that encompasses a lot of people from a larger territory - I once belonged to a ‘Francophone Catholic Community’. We had a chaplain but not enough families to become a parish – we took in parishioners from a large percentage of the parishes in the Archidiocese. At the time I could have also belonged to another non-geographic parish since we were a military family and the Padres were responsible for all military personnel and dependents attached to that Base, regardless of whether they lived on Base or not.

The pastor of your geographic or personal parish is responsible for your sacraments and your pastoral care. Now, you’re free to worship at any other parish you wish to go to, but that parish may not consent to celebrate your wedding or your children’s First Communion, etc., since it’s not its responsibility to do so.

 

[FrDavid96]

I concede I am probably looking at it with Protestant eyes, but the whole thing makes no sense to me.

All I know is that I am registered at a Parish in Manhattan and contribute financially there, even though I live in Brooklyn. If I were to ever remarry, it would not be in some strange parish in Brooklyn that I have never attended. If I need the anointing of the sick, or funeral rites, I would hope it would be at a Parish where the pastor knows me and where the parishioners know me.

OK. I can understand that it “makes no sense” to you. That’s because most people (cradle Catholics included) don’t understand just what constitutes parish membership. This is due to many factors. Without getting into all the “whys” it’s the “what” that’s important. The Church defines a parish as a group of people living in a certain area. The building isn’t the parish, the territory is the parish. This is different from other religious groups where people “choose” to join one local congregation or another.

Parish boundaries are just like state lines or county lines. You say that you live in Brooklyn so I’ll use that as an example. When election time comes around, for which city council seats are you allowed to vote? Brooklyn or Manhattan? I’m going to take a guess here and say Brooklyn. Right? Unless you have a 2nd address in Manhattan where you can legitimately say that you live, you can only vote in the Brooklyn precinct.

It’s the same in the Church. Your own proper parish, the parish where you are a member is determined by where you live–not by anything else. Again, keep in mind that a parish is a territory.

You are welcome to attend Mass at any Catholic church. Same for Benediction, Rosary, Novenas, ice cream socials, and most anything else. You can donate your money to any place of your choosing, and you can be on anyone’s mailing list.

Part of the confusion here is that many people think that parish membership is determined by “registration.” Unfortunately, there are many posters here on CAF who reinforce that misconception because they don’t know what canon law says, or they don’t care to know, or they would prefer to ignore it.

That’s why I quoted the canons in an earlier post.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8358092&postcount=24

Registration at a parish does not make one a member there. If anyone can show in canon law where it does say this, I would like to see it. Canon law is clear in saying that ones parish of membership is determined by ones residence (domicile or quasi-domicile).

There’s nothing preventing a Catholic from “registering” at a different parish, nor is there anything requiring a Catholic to “register” at ones own parish. That’s because parish registration is merely an administrative tool used to keep records and keep communication open, which has no bearing on parish membership.

This is different from what we experience in our day-by-day lives in the secular world. For example, if I “register” as a member of the Raccoon Lodge, then I’m a member. Plain and simple. But it doesn’t work that way in the Catholic Church. In contrast, it works exactly like civil jurisdictions. If you live in New York, your state is New York. The only thing that determines this is “what side of the state line” you have a residence. If you live on the NY side, then your state of “citizenship” is NY. If you want to be a “citizen” of N Jersey, you’re free to become one, but you’ll have to move there to make that happen. Sure, one could lie about this, but that doesn’t make it right. Likewise, the only way to become an actual member (ie parishioner) of a parish is to actually live within the boundaries of that parish.

And the usual caveat that personal parishes are a different topic.

 

[FatHead]

OK. I can understand that it “makes no sense” to you. That’s because most people (cradle Catholics included) don’t understand just what constitutes parish membership. This is due to many factors. Without getting into all the “whys” it’s the “what” that’s important. The Church defines a parish as a group of people living in a certain area. The building isn’t the parish, the territory is the parish. This is different from other religious groups where people “choose” to join one local congregation or another.

Parish boundaries are just like state lines or county lines. You say that you live in Brooklyn so I’ll use that as an example. When election time comes around, for which city council seats are you allowed to vote? Brooklyn or Manhattan? I’m going to take a guess here and say Brooklyn. Right? Unless you have a 2nd address in Manhattan where you can legitimately say that you live, you can only vote in the Brooklyn precinct.

It’s the same in the Church. Your own proper parish, the parish where you are a member is determined by where you live–not by anything else. Again, keep in mind that a parish is a territory.

You are welcome to attend Mass at any Catholic church. Same for Benediction, Rosary, Novenas, ice cream socials, and most anything else. You can donate your money to any place of your choosing, and you can be on anyone’s mailing list.

Part of the confusion here is that many people think that parish membership is determined by “registration.” Unfortunately, there are many posters here on CAF who reinforce that misconception because they don’t know what canon law says, or they don’t care to know, or they would prefer to ignore it.

That’s why I quoted the canons in an earlier post.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8358092&postcount=24

Registration at a parish does not make one a member there. If anyone can show in canon law where it does say this, I would like to see it. Canon law is clear in saying that ones parish of membership is determined by ones residence (domicile or quasi-domicile).

There’s nothing preventing a Catholic from “registering” at a different parish, nor is there anything requiring a Catholic to “register” at ones own parish. That’s because parish registration is merely an administrative tool used to keep records and keep communication open, which has no bearing on parish membership.

This is different from what we experience in our day-by-day lives in the secular world. For example, if I “register” as a member of the Raccoon Lodge, then I’m a member. Plain and simple. But it doesn’t work that way in the Catholic Church. In contrast, it works exactly like civil jurisdictions. If you live in New York, your state is New York. The only thing that determines this is “what side of the state line” you have a residence. If you live on the NY side, then your state of “citizenship” is NY. If you want to be a “citizen” of N Jersey, you’re free to become one, but you’ll have to move there to make that happen. Sure, one could lie about this, but that doesn’t make it right. Likewise, the only way to become an actual member (ie parishioner) of a parish is to actually live within the boundaries of that parish.

And the usual caveat that personal parishes are a different topic.

thank you for the exelenct post fr david

the mod should make this post a stickey so everyone can see it.

 

[divinefaith]

OK. I can understand that it “makes no sense” to you. That’s because most people (cradle Catholics included) don’t understand just what constitutes parish membership. This is due to many factors. Without getting into all the “whys” it’s the “what” that’s important. The Church defines a parish as a group of people living in a certain area. The building isn’t the parish, the territory is the parish. This is different from other religious groups where people “choose” to join one local congregation or another.

Parish boundaries are just like state lines or county lines. You say that you live in Brooklyn so I’ll use that as an example. When election time comes around, for which city council seats are you allowed to vote? Brooklyn or Manhattan? I’m going to take a guess here and say Brooklyn. Right? Unless you have a 2nd address in Manhattan where you can legitimately say that you live, you can only vote in the Brooklyn precinct.

It’s the same in the Church. Your own proper parish, the parish where you are a member is determined by where you live–not by anything else. Again, keep in mind that a parish is a territory.

You are welcome to attend Mass at any Catholic church. Same for Benediction, Rosary, Novenas, ice cream socials, and most anything else. You can donate your money to any place of your choosing, and you can be on anyone’s mailing list.

Part of the confusion here is that many people think that parish membership is determined by “registration.” Unfortunately, there are many posters here on CAF who reinforce that misconception because they don’t know what canon law says, or they don’t care to know, or they would prefer to ignore it.

That’s why I quoted the canons in an earlier post.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8358092&postcount=24

Registration at a parish does not make one a member there. If anyone can show in canon law where it does say this, I would like to see it. Canon law is clear in saying that ones parish of membership is determined by ones residence (domicile or quasi-domicile).

There’s nothing preventing a Catholic from “registering” at a different parish, nor is there anything requiring a Catholic to “register” at ones own parish. That’s because parish registration is merely an administrative tool used to keep records and keep communication open, which has no bearing on parish membership.

This is different from what we experience in our day-by-day lives in the secular world. For example, if I “register” as a member of the Raccoon Lodge, then I’m a member. Plain and simple. But it doesn’t work that way in the Catholic Church. In contrast, it works exactly like civil jurisdictions. If you live in New York, your state is New York. The only thing that determines this is “what side of the state line” you have a residence. If you live on the NY side, then your state of “citizenship” is NY. If you want to be a “citizen” of N Jersey, you’re free to become one, but you’ll have to move there to make that happen. Sure, one could lie about this, but that doesn’t make it right. Likewise, the only way to become an actual member (ie parishioner) of a parish is to actually live within the boundaries of that parish.

And the usual caveat that personal parishes are a different topic.

Thank you!

 

[TrueLight]

OK. I can understand that it “makes no sense” to you. That’s because most people (cradle Catholics included) don’t understand just what constitutes parish membership. This is due to many factors. Without getting into all the “whys” it’s the “what” that’s important. The Church defines a parish as a group of people living in a certain area. The building isn’t the parish, the territory is the parish. This is different from other religious groups where people “choose” to join one local congregation or another.

Parish boundaries are just like state lines or county lines. You say that you live in Brooklyn so I’ll use that as an example. When election time comes around, for which city council seats are you allowed to vote? Brooklyn or Manhattan? I’m going to take a guess here and say Brooklyn. Right? Unless you have a 2nd address in Manhattan where you can legitimately say that you live, you can only vote in the Brooklyn precinct.

It’s the same in the Church. Your own proper parish, the parish where you are a member is determined by where you live–not by anything else. Again, keep in mind that a parish is a territory.

You are welcome to attend Mass at any Catholic church. Same for Benediction, Rosary, Novenas, ice cream socials, and most anything else. You can donate your money to any place of your choosing, and you can be on anyone’s mailing list.

Part of the confusion here is that many people think that parish membership is determined by “registration.” Unfortunately, there are many posters here on CAF who reinforce that misconception because they don’t know what canon law says, or they don’t care to know, or they would prefer to ignore it.

That’s why I quoted the canons in an earlier post.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8358092&postcount=24

Registration at a parish does not make one a member there. If anyone can show in canon law where it does say this, I would like to see it. Canon law is clear in saying that ones parish of membership is determined by ones residence (domicile or quasi-domicile).

There’s nothing preventing a Catholic from “registering” at a different parish, nor is there anything requiring a Catholic to “register” at ones own parish. That’s because parish registration is merely an administrative tool used to keep records and keep communication open, which has no bearing on parish membership.

This is different from what we experience in our day-by-day lives in the secular world. For example, if I “register” as a member of the Raccoon Lodge, then I’m a member. Plain and simple. But it doesn’t work that way in the Catholic Church. In contrast, it works exactly like civil jurisdictions. If you live in New York, your state is New York. The only thing that determines this is “what side of the state line” you have a residence. If you live on the NY side, then your state of “citizenship” is NY. If you want to be a “citizen” of N Jersey, you’re free to become one, but you’ll have to move there to make that happen. Sure, one could lie about this, but that doesn’t make it right. Likewise, the only way to become an actual member (ie parishioner) of a parish is to actually live within the boundaries of that parish.

And the usual caveat that personal parishes are a different topic.

This is an awesome explanation. Thanks!