Other Than The Language, Is There A Difference Between Traditional Baptisms and Post Vatican II Baptisms?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Duke_of_Mantua
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Duke_of_Mantua

Guest
I am in the process of baptizing my little girl and I was hoping the folks here could shed some light on this issue. Since I am beginning to lean towards traditional Catholicism, I would like my baby girl’s baptism to be a hallmark of tradition.
 
YES

A young Doctor I know recently had to think about this on the birth of his first daughter.

Read his excellent post HERE where he compares the two rites.
 
The actual formula of the conferral of the Mystery is identical in both, regardless of the language or surrounding prayers and ceremonies. In the Western tradition, it’s “I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.”
 
Duke_of_Mantua said:
Wow. They removed a lot.
Click to expand...
Actually they didn’t. Many of the prayers are in different positions in the rite. As far as I see they really only removed the salt. Also the present rite has scripture readings, a homily (very important for catechesis on the sacrament) and intercessions and the litany of saints. There is also the blessing of the parents (the mother was usually not present in the Tridentine Rite…none of my older female family members attended their children’s baptisms, they were not needed) Also, since all the prayers are in the venacular the parents know what they are promising for their children. According to my Godmother, no worship aides were given to those presenting children for baptism back then, so they had no idea what was being prayed. Also the whole thing took about 15 minutes compared to the 1/2 hour to 45 minutes celebrations we have today. Also today many are done at Mass so that the child is truly baptized into a community of believers.
 
Joannm said:
Actually they didn’t. Many of the prayers are in different positions in the rite. As far as I see they really only removed the salt. Also the present rite has scripture readings, a homily (very important for catechesis on the sacrament) and intercessions and the litany of saints. There is also the blessing of the parents (the mother was usually not present in the Tridentine Rite…none of my older female family members attended their children’s baptisms, they were not needed) Also, since all the prayers are in the venacular the parents know what they are promising for their children. According to my Godmother, no worship aides were given to those presenting children for baptism back then, so they had no idea what was being prayed. Also the whole thing took about 15 minutes compared to the 1/2 hour to 45 minutes celebrations we have today. Also today many are done at Mass so that the child is truly baptized into a community of believers.
Click to expand...
The biggest difference is that the OF Rite of Baptism makes clearer the responsibilities of the parents and godparents and shows clearly that it is the parents who are asking for baptism for their child “What do you ask of God’s church for your child?” “Is it your will that ‘your child’ should be baptized in the faith of the Church, which we have all professed with you?”

In the EF Rite of Baptism, the questions are addressed to the child.
 
The newer right seems to be more geared toward infant baptism, I am assuming that in the case of baptism of an older child or an adult convert, some modifications are already incorporated into the rite.

The other thing I notice is that the newer rite contains much more cathecesis. One of the shifts that came along in the wake of V2 was, at least as far as this 39 year old can tell, was an increase in cathecesis. Holy Mother Church wants her children to better understand her teachings, which are those of her Lord, Jesus Christ.

It appears to me that the attitude before the council was that most lay Catholics should simply attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days and observe the other precepts, but that understanding was not that important. I think that many viewed the Latin language as a sort of temple veil, so that the unclean masses would not get to close to the sacred truths. The belief was that this distance would enhance the mysterium fidei, and thus reverence for what is holy.

In the post-conciliar Church, there is an increased focus on cathecesis of the laity, a desire that they too can understand what the Church teaches and why she teaches it. For me, personnally, the more I learn about the mystery that is the Catholic faith, the more I realize I do not know, and can never fully understand, therefore, increasing my awe and wonder at this glorious and supernatural faith that Christ has given us.
 
brockmac said:
The other thing I notice is that the newer rite contains much more cathecesis. One of the shifts that came along in the wake of V2 was, at least as far as this 39 year old can tell, was an increase in cathecesis. Holy Mother Church wants her children to better understand her teachings, which are those of her Lord, Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
I realise this is a bit subjective, but personally I find that the newer rites sometimes have a bit *too *much catechism - perhaps even to the loss of the numinous. Everything is interrupted by lengthy admonitions, explanations - and sometimes I feel with the vernacular it is a bit unnecessary. It is not of course, that explanations are wholly a bad thing- but they can be a lot more judicious in their number.

It’s also the tenor of explanation. Sometimes one can explain a rite with a focus to God and at other times with a focus to man. I prefer the former, especially for the more minor rites (not major ones where it is sensible to address people like a Baptism admonition to parents). It seems to preserve the orientation of the liturgy much better.

For example, when incensing, I think people could get the same idea if it was said something to the tune of “Let my prayer arise before you as incense” instead of “Dear friends in Christ, we shall now incense this as a sign of our prayers…”
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top