Other ways to explain devotion to saints?

[anodos]

I hope that I’ve chosen the right forum, please move the thread if necessary…I am a very new Catholic and do not yet have a good grasp of what it means to petition the saints or to be devoted to them, and I want to be able to both understand it better myself, and to explain when other people ask. Several times on CAF I’ve come across the analogy of having pictures of deceased loved ones kept in the home, to remember and honor them. This doesn’t “work” for me; my mind won’t bridge the gap between having a photo of beloved Aunt Margaret, to having miraculous medals, special prayers etc. of beloved St. Benedict. I don’t want to give this example to anyone else because I don’t really understand it myself.
In my own experience as a Protestant, I would never have expected that I could have a connection with Aunt Margaret other than the hope that I might be able to see her again someday, but even then I didn’t know if we’d recognize one another and still have a friendship. I would never have considered that she might have any involvement whatsoever with “real life” on earth, including prayers. So my having a photo of her displayed in my home would not have represented anything like my having a picture of St. Francis.
Are there other analogies that might be helpful?

 

[bmullins]

The one that helps me the most is the analogy someone used on here of the sun and the moon. The moon reflects the sunlight on to the world, giving it light. It doesn’t detract from the sun. It is still beautiful on it’s own, but what really makes it beautiful is the light it’s reflecting.

The saints are like the moon. We aren’t looking at them for what they are, but for what they let shine through them. We realize that these people in particular allowed Christ’s light to shine through them in a way that most of us never comprehend. The picture of St. Francis is there to remind us how he lived for Christ. When we see it we are reminded of what he did, how he did it, and why he did it. It’s a moment for us to remember how we ourselves should be living like that. All of the saints we pray to or honor, are like the moon. We honor them precisely because they reflect the light of God.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I heard it put very well by the following story. I regret to say who it is that I have to give credit to, but it is not my own.

Think of it this way, if there was a king of your country and you wanted to ask for something, you could go up and ask in in person. This is fine.

If you want this request to hold greater weight with the king, how could you present it? You could go to someone you know, that is a very close friend of the king and ask that person to petition to him.

That’s what the heavenly saints are. They’ve already gone through the struggles of this world. They’ve already passed through the gates of heaven. They have completely won the friendship of God. God allows them to hear your pleas and ask Him favors for you.

They are people that we should model our lives after. The pursuit of perfection. We are not praying to them, we are asking for their intercession.

You can ask anyone in the world to pray for you, can’t you? Why wouldn’t you want someone who is in heaven, made perfect, close to God to pray for you? I would take all the prayers I could get.

My dad has a similar view. He was brought up to be anti-catholic and UCC. He thinks, “Why should I ask a saint to pray for me? They’re dead. I can just go to the Big Man.” He believes the same about confession. Oh well. He’s ignorant about the Truth, so I can’t blame him for what he doesn’t understand.

 

[JRKH]

Anodos,
You bring up some good points from your protestant background and how these make it difficult to grasp the “communion of saints” idea.

One of the most common explanations for asking the intercession of a saint is to compare it to asking a fellow christian here on earth to pray for you.
However, some Protestants believe that those who have passed on are not aware (soul sleep?) and thus are not able to intercede. Of course we do not believe this. We believe that those in heaven ARE able to intercede for us - that is to add their prayers to ours.

Of course those we try to explain this too might say, “well why not just pray directly to God?” To which I respond, “We should and we do”. There is nothing in Catholic teaching that requires us to pray to the saints. It is entirely a personal matter.

So - in order to explain intercessory prayer, there may be need to address the more fundamental difference in belief about the status of those who have passed on.

As to “devotion to saints”. The simplest explanation is that they provide role models. People who have gone before and have provided examples worthy of study and of emulation. Most often we are drawn to those people who’s lives “speak to us” in a very personal way. They might embody a life that we might wish to embrace, or they might demonstrate overcoming obstacles that we seek to overcome, or…some other thing that attracts us.

I would simply suggest that you consider what it is that attracts YOU to a particular saint and then use this as your explanation. Then when questions are raised about “how can they hear you”, or “Jesus is the only intercessor”, these questions can be addressed.

Peace
James

 

[jmoneyideas]

I personally like what Hebrews 12:1 says 1 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, I always believe that the Cloud of Witness are the Saints in heaven…

If we can ask other people to pray for us why is it so hard to petition those in Heaven? Think of a Parent or Loved one who has passed away, do you believe that person is in Heaven with God? Do you think that your loved one in Heaven has Forgotten all about you, and No longer Cares about your life, happiness or well being? Or do you believe that they Love and care about you even more deeply and is lifting you up in prayer before GOD? I say yes to these questions and thats why I believe in the Communion of Saint…

 

[Barbkw]

A bit of info on the process and requirements - candidate, venerable, blessed, saint.

home.comcast.net/~motherteresasite/sainthood.html

The formal process of sainthood involves a complicated process taking time, money, testimonies, and miracles, and the church follows a strict set of rules in the process.

First, to determine who qualifies, the Vatican looks to its Congregation for the “Causes of Saints”. Typically, a would-be candidate’s “cause” is presented to the local bishop by his or her admirers who persuade him that the life of the candidate was a model of holiness.

Once the applicant is approved as a candidate, an appointed postulator interviews those who knew the individual.

Personal testimonies, letters, and writings of the candidate’s are put together. A relater then sifts through this information and prepares a position paper. If the volumes of evidence prove a life of **“heroic virtue”, **the person is given the title “venerable” by the Pope.

The next title, beatified (blessed), is attained if it can be proven that a miracle occurred after the death of the candidate, the result of someone praying to that person for help.

To finalize a canonization, it must be established that a second miracle occurred. (Martyrs are the exception. The pope can reduce their miracle requirement to one or waive it altogether.) Most often prayer requests are for a physical healing.

Verifying a miracle is considered the most difficult hurdle in the process. Just deciding what constitutes one causes debate. A life of heroic virtue is obviously easier to establish than a healing that results from prayers.

 

[fred_conty]

A cacoon gives forth a butterfly. When we see the cacoon, we then think of the butterfly that came out and is free to do what it wants to do.

 

[Mintaka]

St. John Damascene (who lived in a Muslim country and had to think about this stuff) has a very good treatise on saints and pictures of them. This may help you a lot, because he examines the question from many different angles.

Don’t forget, no distance or material circumstance can separate us from the love of Christ. We are all one in Christ. So the saints are not far away from us, but very close in Christ. Speaking to our brothers and sisters who are right there is only polite.

 

[anodos]

So - in order to explain intercessory prayer, there may be need to address the more fundamental difference in belief about the status of those who have passed on.

Thank you, I think this explains the difficulty; I ought to have realized it myself. I had been more of an agnostic when it came to deceased loved ones continuing to exist spiritually, even though, at the time, I thought I agreed that they did.

Explaining the saints merely as role models makes me cringe a little; I don’t want to reduce them to an ideal, though they certainly are. But I realize that all examples will be imperfect.
Also, some of my spiritual role models as a Protestant would have loved to pray for me while in the flesh, but they might have shot me if I started asking for their post-mortem intercession.

I guess it all depends on the audience; for some, it will be enough that saints are role models that we want to emulate, and others may appreciate the analogy of keeping photos in the house to remember deceased loved ones. And of course I like the comparison between asking friends and family to pray for us, and asking for the prayers of even more righteous friends and family who have passed on and are now closer to God.

Thank you, everyone, for your replies. Sometimes it takes a while, but I do learn something eventually.