Other Western Rites?

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holdencaulfield

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Does anyone know if there are any church groups who practice other Western Rites of the Liturgy. The only two I can think of is the Tridentine Rite and Novus Ordo (Roman Rite). I know there are many Eastern Rites, however are there any other Western ones?
 
holdencaulfield said:
Does anyone know if there are any church groups who practice other Western Rites of the Liturgy. The only two I can think of is the Tridentine Rite and Novus Ordo (Roman Rite). I know there are many Eastern Rites, however are there any other Western ones?
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  • Roman- that’s what most people think of when they think of Catholic. The Roman, or Latin Rite has two forms- ordinary (Novus Ordo), & extraordinary (Tridentine)
  • Ambrosian- this is the Rite of Milan, Italy.
  • Carthusian- this is the Rite of the Carthusian order.
  • Carmelite- the Rite of the Carmelite order
  • Dominican- the Rite of the Dominican order
  • Norbertine- the Rite of the Norbertine order (note- the Rites associated with religious orders aren’t used as commonly anymore).
  • Mozarabic- this Rite is used in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain. It is also (now rarely, I think) used in other parts of Toledo.
  • Bragan- this is an optional Rite for the Archdiocese of Braga in Portugal.
    I think the Sarum Rite (England) could also be used (the Rites that were suppressed were those younger than a certain age at the Council of Trent), but I don’t know of any case where it is. From what I understand, it’s quite a complicated liturgy- I’m not even sure there are complete liturgical books out there for it.
 
m134e5 said:
  • Roman- that’s what most people think of when they think of Catholic. The Roman, or Latin Rite has two forms- ordinary (Novus Ordo), & extraordinary (Tridentine)
  • Ambrosian- this is the Rite of Milan, Italy.
  • Carthusian- this is the Rite of the Carthusian order.
  • Carmelite- the Rite of the Carmelite order
  • Dominican- the Rite of the Dominican order
  • Norbertine- the Rite of the Norbertine order (note- the Rites associated with religious orders aren’t used as commonly anymore).
  • Mozarabic- this Rite is used in the Cathedral of Toledo, Spain. It is also (now rarely, I think) used in other parts of Toledo.
  • Bragan- this is an optional Rite for the Archdiocese of Braga in Portugal.
    I think the Sarum Rite (England) could also be used (the Rites that were suppressed were those younger than a certain age at the Council of Trent), but I don’t know of any case where it is. From what I understand, it’s quite a complicated liturgy- I’m not even sure there are complete liturgical books out there for it.
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There is also the Anglican-Use Mass which falls under the Roman Rite. Not to confuse but all of these are rites used within the Latin (or Roman) Rite of the Church.
 
Wasn’t there an old Celtic Liturgy? It would be interesting if some parishes started using that. :irish2: With all the Irish people they might like it? 🤷
 
holdencaulfield said:
Does anyone know if there are any church groups who practice other Western Rites of the Liturgy. The only two I can think of is the Tridentine Rite and Novus Ordo (Roman Rite). I know there are many Eastern Rites, however are there any other Western ones?
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Actually technically speaking the “Tridentine Rite” (Extraondinary Form) and Novus Ordo (Ordinary Form) are both the Roman Rite.

There are other Western Rites, Ambrosian (sp?), Carmelite, Franciscan, and others but that are not used in public Liturgy and are suppressed. The First I believe is used in one or two parishes in Italy.
 
They don’t make them like they used to. Thanks Paul VI…😉
 
holdencaulfield said:
Wasn’t there an old Celtic Liturgy? It would be interesting if some parishes started using that. :irish2: With all the Irish people they might like it? 🤷
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As I understand it, the old Celtic mass liturgy is only known in fragments, so any attempt at reconstruction would have to be largely conjectural. The Wikipedia article on the Celtic Rite is actually pretty informative: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Rite
 
@ibkc:

That’s to bad about the Celtic Rite. It would be interesting to be seen. Perhaps if someone took some interest they could restore it. I find it ironic how all the people who use the diversity of the Liturgy argument don’t care about other Western Liturgies. I don’t see what is to be liked in the Novus Ordo, however what do I know?
 
The Galacian rite is one that is known but no longer used. It was originally found in France.
 
I would love to see a Sarum Rite Mass celebrated in the United States. Is it reserved to Salibury only?

In Portland, Oregon, Holy Rosary Church celebrates the Dominican Rite Mass once per month.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Actually technically speaking the “Tridentine Rite” (Extraondinary Form) and Novus Ordo (Ordinary Form) are both the Roman Rite.

There are other Western Rites, Ambrosian (sp?), Carmelite, Franciscan, and others but that are not used in public Liturgy and are suppressed. The First I believe is used in one or two parishes in Italy.
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The are ALL the Roman Rite.
 
Spiller said:
They are ALL the Roman Rite.
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We would have to consult an array of opinions on this matter to really settle it, but I don’t think we can call all of them the Roman Rite. The monastic usages are, for the most part, only adaptations of the standard liturgy of their times which was generically Roman. But the Ambrosian rite most certainly has, despite Ambrose’s wish to conform in most things to Roman practice, its own independent history of development. Its structure is fundamentally different from the Roman rite, both within the liturgy itself and within its external disciplines (with a Lent of different length and practices, for instance). It’s been a while since I read up on the Mozarabic rite, but I’m pretty sure the same could be said at least of the elements of the missal itself (having more propers than the Roman rite and also placing some elements in different places during the Mass).

PS - I should say that my comments on the Ambrosian rite refer to its classical expression. Much was done when they “renewed” it in the 70s to conform to the ordinary form of the Roman rite, so much of that distinctiveness might have been lost, but I don’t know much about is modern form.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
We would have to consult an array of opinions on this matter to really settle it, but I don’t think we can call all of them the Roman Rite. The monastic usages are, for the most part, only adaptations of the standard liturgy of their times which was generically Roman. But the Ambrosian rite most certainly has, despite Ambrose’s wish to conform in most things to Roman practice, its own independent history of development. Its structure is fundamentally different from the Roman rite, both within the liturgy itself and within its external disciplines (with a Lent of different length and practices, for instance). It’s been a while since I read up on the Mozarabic rite, but I’m pretty sure the same could be said at least of the elements of the missal itself (having more propers than the Roman rite and also placing some elements in different places during the Mass).

PS - I should say that my comments on the Ambrosian rite refer to its classical expression. Much was done when they “renewed” it in the 70s to conform to the ordinary form of the Roman rite, so much of that distinctiveness might have been lost, but I don’t know much about is modern form.
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The are ALL Roman/Latin Rite
 
Spiller said:
The are ALL Roman/Latin Rite
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For some miraculous reason, when you simply repeated your assertion, I realized it was correct!:rolleyes:

At least give a basis for your claim. Merely being under the jurisdiction of the Roman patriarchy does not transform one’s liturgy into the Roman rite. They are all rites within the Latin Church. The Roman rite, however, is a specific liturgical rite not used by all local churches within the Latin Church.
 
Andreas_Hofer said:
For some miraculous reason, when you simply repeated your assertion, I realized it was correct!:rolleyes:

At least give a basis for your claim. Merely being under the jurisdiction of the Roman patriarchy does not transform one’s liturgy into the Roman rite. They are all rites within the Latin Church. The Roman rite, however, is a specific liturgical rite not used by all local churches within the Latin Church.
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Roman Rite = Latin Church

Roman rite however is quite a different thing.
 
Spiller said:
Roman Rite = Latin Church

Roman rite however is quite a different thing.
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Ah, now I see what you’re getting at. Official terminology doesn’t use rite and church interchangeably anymore. Rites are the liturgical/cultural patrimonies, churches are the jurisdicitions.
 
Dauphin said:
Here’s the Sarum Rite:

youtube.com/watch?v=21pnAoiGnjs

It’s magnificent. I’d love to attend one. (especially with such extraordinary music 😃 )
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Is this an Anglican service using an old Catholic prayer book?

As I understand it, once a rite ceases to be celebrated anywhere in the world, it becomes invalid and cannot be revived. The Sarum rite was not ‘suppressed’ by the Church, as some other rites were, but was the ordinary form of the liturgy in England up until the persecutions under Edward VI. From that point on, all England’s Catholic priests were trained in France and Italy, and so learned the Tridentine rite, so the Sarum rite simply lapsed from use.

I heard a rumor from a traditionalist friend of mine a few years ago that some seminarians at Campion Hall, Oxford, had written to the bishop and received permission to say the Sarum rite in private use, though if that’s true I doubt the bishop understood the request (possibly mistook it for a request for a TLM indult), I also doubt whether a local bishop has the authority to authorise a lapsed rite to be celebrated again.
 
Yes it seems that there can be several rites within one church. There are 22 churches in the Catholic Church. The only Western church is the Roman Catholic Church. Here is the line up for the Catholic churches.

Western
  • Roman Catholic Church
Eastern
  • Maronite Catholic Church
  • Syrian Catholic Church
  • Chaldean Catholic Church
  • Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
  • Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
  • Egyptian Coptic Catholic Church
  • Ethiopian Coptic Catholic Church
  • Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
  • Belarusan Catholic Church
  • Bulgarian Catholic Church
  • Greek Catholic Church
  • Hungarian Catholic Church
  • Krizevci Catholic Church
  • Melkite Catholic Church
  • Romanian Catholic Church
  • Russian Catholic Church
  • Ruthenian Catholic Church
  • Slovakian Catholic Church
  • Ukrainian Catholic Church
  • Armenian Catholic Church
  • Georgian Catholic Church
 
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