Our Father "Habits" During Mass

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Hi there,

So I was just wondering is holding hands during the Our Father discouraged? You see my family is one of those that have always held hands during the Our Father during mass and I saw other families and individuals doing it so I’ve always thought it was okay. I never knew why I did it I just did it. I thought it was a ‘unity’ thing.

But, I’ve recently learned through different more conservative Catholics, priests and other really great Catholic friends of mine that this practice of holding hands is actually discouraged. I’ve also done some personal research and found the same results. I used to hold my hands up during the Our Father even without my parents, but now I’ve stopped. Instead I just fold my hands together.

While I don’t do this when I am at mass myself, when I am with my parents it’s totally different. I really want to stop this practice, mainly because now I’m uncomfortable doing it knowing that it’s discouraged. But at the same time, I also feel uncomfortable talking to my parents about it. I’m still a teenager only 16 and I don’t want to seemingly disrespect them by not wanting to hold hands any longer. However, I feel distracted with the action now and can’t seem to focus fully during the Our Father at mass because of this.

Maybe there’s just something wrong with how I perceive this and shouldn’t make a big deal about it. . .but I’m not sure.

Any advice on how to deal with this or to confront my parents?
 
The Church has no requirements and makes no suggestions concerning hand positions during the Our Father. People on the Internet are sure bothered by it, though.
 
It is one of those grey areas these days. The only thing the GIRM says is that you don’t have to hold hands, but there is no restriction against it. I think it depends upon what type of Mass you are attending. I believe that in the tridentine Latin Mass, this practice is not done and may be discouraged. In the Ordinary form of the Mass, the vernacular Mass, I would follow the custom of the local congregation. My husband and I always hold hands and to so with fellow parishioners when they seem comfortable with it. Most do at our church. So, just be sensitive to those around you, but continue to do what seems right to you. When our sons were in their teens, it really felt good to hold their hands at Mass.

With regard to holding your palms up and arms out at the Our Father, I read here that some are really opposed to that but I heve never seen anything authoritative that bans that action. For me, it is very worshipful and also receptive of God at that portion of the Mass. Try not to get too caught up in the legalisms. Remember, the most important thing is to continue to deepen your relationship with Jesus and the Trinity.
 
Hold hands with you family by all means. I hold my wife and kids hands.👍
 
The Church has no requirements and makes no suggestions concerning hand positions during the Our Father. People on the Internet are sure bothered by it, though
The Bishops have stated
No position is prescribed in the present Sacramentary for an assembly gesture during the Lord’s Prayer.
The only time that holding of hands can be a problem is if it becomes an assembly gesture. Holding hands as a family is not an assembly gesture necessarily. It could be.
ContactR3ality from what you have stated I wouldn’t be concerned about holding hands as a family. Don’t cause your parents grief over this. When you are alone, you can refrain but don’t make a big deal now.

You are right. People often point out that there is no instructions as to what to do with the hands. They are partly right. The GIRM tells us what we may do. It does not tell us what we can’t do. You are right in that it is discouraged so phase it out when you are able but don’t insult your family over it.
With regard to holding your palms up and arms out at the Our Father, I read here that some are really opposed to that but I heve never seen anything authoritative that bans that action. For me, it is very worshipful and also receptive of God at that portion of the Mass. Try not to get too caught up in the legalisms. Remember, the most important thing is to continue to deepen your relationship with Jesus and the Trinity.
The Roman Missal does not allow for the faithful to raise their hands in the “orans” position (or hold hands) during Mass. Such posture is reserved for the priest.
Article 6:
§ 2. … In Eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the Eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”
The orans position is a gesture that is proper to the priest within the mass
 
Any advice on how to deal with this or to confront my parents?
I think the word “confront” from your post is only real problem. As a teenager, I remember having “Aha!” moments like what you’re describing here and thinking my parents must never have given it a thought because, well, I hadn’t before and they hadn’t said anything.😊

You are correct to show your parents the respect due to the authority God has given them in your life. So don’t “confront” your parents; talk with them. Tell them what you’ve heard, discussed, and read and have a conversation about it. If they respond with a quick “you don’t have to hold our hands” and that doesn’t feel sufficient to you, ask them some open-ended questions like: “What did people do in your parish when you were growing up?” “Why do we hold hands for the Our Father?”

Most parents would be thrilled to have a deep conversation with their teenager-growing-into-an-adult. You are asking awesome questions. Now ask your parents what they think.

As an aside, I am a single mom and my son is going into 3rd grade at our parish school in the fall. When his school goes to mass (twice a week) they hold hands for the Our Father. When he and I go to mass, we don’t hold hands. But when, one Sunday, the lovely old lady next to me, the little old lady who doesn’t speak a word of English, tapped my elbow to hold her hand, I immediately took her hand – our family has a great respect our “treasures” (senior citizens), so in joyful charity I didn’t have the slightest problem doing what she asked. 👍

Funny thing is, I don’t even hold my 78 year old mom’s hand at mass - she knows I prefer not to, and we share plenty of affection outside of mass 😃

Wow, that’s more that my two cents’ worth of opinion. :hmmm: Let’s say that’s my dime’s worth!

And keep asking those good questions – may God bless you!

Gertie
 
You are right in that it is discouraged so phase it out when you are able but don’t insult your family over it.
No, actually, it isn’t discouraged.

Funny, I notice that people keep speaking in the passive voice here. Obviously, that’s because writing in the ordinary active voice would require them to try to decide who is doing all this discouraging. Somehow “Internet kibbitzers discourage it” wouldn’t have quite the same force to it as the faceless, ambiguous “It is discouraged” does.
The orans position is a gesture that is proper to the priest within the mass
No, that’s not true at all. And the Roman Missal has absolutely no comment whatsoever on use of the orans posture by members of the congregation.
 
The bottom line is this: is this a hill you want to die on?

You have to pick your battles. You only have so many bullets in your gun before you run out, and if this is a point you want to approach with your parents, then that’s fine. However, as far as it concerns dogmatic integrity, I think it is low on the totem pole. It’d be far more productive to address the birth control issue WRT the Religious Liberty debate, or to encourage your parents to approach Confession if they’ve been away for a while.

Don’t get me wrong, I never hold hands during the Our Father, but I don’t make it a point to get my message out there by bringing it up with every Catholic I talk to. Nor do I feel some moral obligation to correct the crowds. If someone asks me, I’ll politely tell them why I choose what I do, but I don’t think it makes a person a better Catholic if they convert to my way of thinking.

Decide what you think will help souls get to Heaven. Leave the liturgical questions to Bishops (whose job it is to regulate and lead the Sacred Liturgy). You can be liturgically perfect and still go to Hell. Keep your heart on Christ and his Blessed Mother.
 
Decide what you think will help souls get to Heaven. Leave the liturgical questions to Bishops (whose job it is to regulate and lead the Sacred Liturgy). **You can be liturgically perfect and still go to Hell. ** Keep your heart on Christ and his Blessed Mother.
A very important point that we should all keep in mind.

To the OP, as a minor under your parents roof, I encourage you to be charitable in this. Certainly you can ask questions about habits or practices during Mass that your parents had growing up. You do not need to raise your hands when you are alone or hold hands with anyone outside your family, but if your parents prefer to hold hands during the Our Father, continue that practice with them.

Aside from the liturgical question, as a mom I know I would be a bit hurt if my teen son decided he wouldn’t hold hands then if that was our family practice. Whatever you say about church rules, your mom is going to think you just don’t want to hold hands in public. 😦
 
You have to pick your battles. You only have so many bullets in your gun before you run out, and if this is a point you want to approach with your parents, then that’s fine. However, as far as it concerns dogmatic integrity, I think it is low on the totem pole. It’d be far more productive to address the birth control issue WRT the Religious Liberty debate, or to encourage your parents to approach Confession if they’ve been away for a while.
Aha, don’t worry mate, I’m very involved in this whole Contraception, Abortion and Religious liberty issue that Catholics are facing. Assuming you’re American: Sorry to hear that the whole Mandate has been considered constitutionally approved by your courts. I’m Canadian, but I will continue to pray for you guys, and pray for us too, we have NO laws in regards to abortion in any term.

This was just a question I wanted a clear answer to.

Anyway thank you all for your insight. I won’t change this when I am with my parents (apart from them I won’t be doing it), but I will ask them why they do it, just for some clarification.
 
Hi there,

So I was just wondering is holding hands during the Our Father discouraged? You see my family is one of those that have always held hands during the Our Father during mass and I saw other families and individuals doing it so I’ve always thought it was okay. I never knew why I did it I just did it. I thought it was a ‘unity’ thing.

But, I’ve recently learned through different more conservative Catholics, priests and other really great Catholic friends of mine that this practice of holding hands is actually discouraged. I’ve also done some personal research and found the same results. I used to hold my hands up during the Our Father even without my parents, but now I’ve stopped. Instead I just fold my hands together.

While I don’t do this when I am at mass myself, when I am with my parents it’s totally different. I really want to stop this practice, **mainly because now I’m uncomfortable doing it knowing that it’s discouraged. **But at the same time, I also feel uncomfortable talking to my parents about it. I’m still a teenager only 16 and I don’t want to seemingly disrespect them by not wanting to hold hands any longer. However, I feel distracted with the action now and can’t seem to focus fully during the Our Father at mass because of this.

Maybe there’s just something wrong with how I perceive this and shouldn’t make a big deal about it. . .but I’m not sure.

Any advice on how to deal with this or to confront my parents?
My bet is that you’re uncomfortable holding hands with your parents period, since you are approaching adulthood. When you have kids you will know how significant holding hands with them is. I hold hands with my dad when I’m lucky enough to be at mass with him (once every few years since he lives so far away) - that’s 500lbs of man-flesh holding hands right there! If my brother the deacon is on my other side of me at mass then there’s over 800lbs of manly men holding hands and praying together!

Why do I hold his hands when praying to “Our Father”? Because they are the hands that worked to provide food for the table and a roof for our heads, that wiped my bottom, bathed me, fed me, corrected me from time to time, and taught me to drive, and arm-wrestled with me when I was bigger.
 
As St Paul said, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”.
In my parish we hold hands. If I visit another parish and they don’t, then I follow their custom.
I don’t get too twisted about it.
 
lucky enough to be at mass with him (once every few years since he lives so far away) - that’s **500lbs of **man-flesh holding hands right there! If my brother the deacon is on my other side of me at mass then there’s over **800lbs of **manly men holding hands and praying together!
Heavy hands. Does Guiness know about this? 🙂
 
There is no prescribed position during the Our Father. You can hold hands if you want, or not. No one should be made to hold hands if they do not want to. Most people in my parish hold hands. I try to sense the person next to me. If they keep their hands clasped or show a sign that they don’t want to hold hands, then I don’t hold hands with them (but this rarely happens). I always hold my husband’s hand though.

There are many “little actions” that the faithful do that are not prescribed in the rubrics. For example, some of the faithful like to make the sign of the cross during the penitential act, “May Almighty God have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life.” I’ve noticed this is something that many of the more “traditional” Catholics do. This isn’t in the rubrics, but that doesn’t seem to upset so many like the holding hands during the Our Father does. 🤷 Same with making the sign of the cross after receiving Communion.
 
IMO, the whole hand-holding and hand position thing has been blown way out of proportion and is nothing but a distraction and fodder for an argument. Which, of course, is Satan pulling his usual tricks to try and divide and cause dissension among Catholics.

Since the Church has prescribed no rubric on this, do what you feel the Lord is leading you to do, and let others worship in the way the Lord leads them. This is small potatoes compared to what we might be facing as a Church in the future, and if we are going to spat among ourselves over every little thing, we are not going to be in a good position to fight the enemy in the big stuff that might be coming our way.

We need to get out of la la land and wake up to what is going on around us, and unite ourselves in prayer to one another and Christ to face what might be in store for us. While we’re arguing among ourselves over stuff like this, the enemy is gaining a foothold.
 
No, that’s not true at all. And the Roman Missal has absolutely no comment whatsoever on use of the orans posture by members of the congregation.
Your are mistaken.
The Roman Missal does not allow for the faithful to raise their hands in the “orans” position (or hold hands) during Mass. Such posture is reserved for the priest.

Article 6:§ 2. … In Eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the Eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”

The orans position is proscribed for the priest and as such is proper only to them in the Mass.
 
The Church has no requirements and makes no suggestions concerning hand positions during the Our Father. People on the Internet are sure bothered by it, though.
Obligatory XKCD reference:
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Your are mistaken.
The Roman Missal does not allow for the faithful to raise their hands in the “orans” position (or hold hands) during Mass. Such posture is reserved for the priest.

Article 6:§ 2. … In Eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the Eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”

The orans position is proscribed for the priest and as such is proper only to them in the Mass.
That passage is not in the Roman Missal. I’m not sure where you came across it, but it’s from the 1997 Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest. Set in its proper context, the passage you’re quoting isn’t referring to what you think.

That paragraph actually says:
§ 2. To promote the proper identity (of various roles) in this area,** those abuses which are contrary to the provisions of canon 907 are to be eradicated**. In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity.
To begin with, that is not a very good translation. The authentic text, at 89 Acta Apostolicae Sedis 852, 869 (1997), of the sentence you’re concerned with says:
. . . [A]movendi sunt varii generis abusus contrarii praescripto can. 907, cuius vi in celebratione eucharistica diaconis et christifidelibus non ordinatis non licet proferre orationes et quamlibet aliam partem praecipuam sacerdotis celebrantis—speciatim quidem precem eucharisticam cum doxologia conclusiva—vel explere actiones et actus qui eiusdem celebrantis sunt proprii.
As I expect you’ll see, a more accurate translation would say:
The various kinds of abuses are to be eliminated which are contrary to the prescript of Canon 907, by the force of which is it not permitted to deacons and unordained members of the faithful to offer the prayers and any other part belonging to the priest celebrant—especially the Eucharistic prayer with concluding doxology—or carry out the actions and gestures which are proper to the same celebrant.

In a bit, we’ll find out why a faithful translation (especially translating explere as “carry out” rather than “use”) is important. But I suppose the first thing we’d notice about this paragraph, is that its nature is as an exhortation to obey the requirements of Canon 907. So we ought to take a look at that Canon and its setting in the Code. The text says:
Can. 907 In the eucharistic celebration deacons and lay persons are not permitted to offer prayers, especially the eucharistic prayer, or to perform fungi, a synonym of explere in this sense] actions which are proper to the celebrating priest.
And when we look at the section of the Code in which Canon 907 is found, we see immediately that it governs “the minister of the Eucharist,” setting out a wide variety of things he can and cannot do. Not one jot of this section, however, governs the laity. Indeed, nothing whatsoever in any part of the Code of Canon Law governs the laity’s conduct at Mass, excepting rules for who and when to receive the Eucharist. Standing, sitting, kneeling, on the tongue, in the hand, hats, miniskirts, which responses to make, what should be sung – absolutely none of it is in the Code of Canon Law.

It is clear, then, that Canon 907 does not, and was not intended to, govern how a layman comports himself in the pews during Mass. Rather, it governs what the celebrant can grant or delegate to the deacon or a lay person: as the Instruction says, what is forbidden is the abuse in which the priest hands over important parts of the celebration so that some else can “quasi preside.” So it is readily obvious that we have to reject any interpretation under which it is claimed that somehow, in the midst a section dealing with the “minister of the Eucharist” and within the framework of a Code that in no way tells the laity what to do at Mass, Canon 907 slipped in to govern the laity’s prayer stance during the Our Father – and not just as a matter of rubrics and good form, but on pain of violation of canon law!

In this light, you will see the importance of a correct translation of the Instruction’s word explere. The normative Latin text of the Instruction is not saying that, in some vague sense detached from any concrete context, it is inappropriate to “use” actions and gestures proper to the priest, but rather that deacons and laity should not be the ones carrying out, fulfilling, discharging, executing, those parts of the celebration that are assigned to the priest. That is why this paragraph is tied to Canon 907: the intended meaning is, the priest may not have other people execute his actions and gestures for him.

Finally, we can briefly trace two of your other errors, on which we won’t dwell. (1) The orans position is not an actus, an active gesture; it is a posture. How exactly could a person be said to explere the orans posture? (2) Something is not “proper” to the priest merely because the priest is told to do it and nobody else is. The Latin word proprius means “belonging to one, personal, particular, one’s own.” We might say that it is proprius to the priest to be the one standing in front of the congregation leading everybody with his hands in the orans position, but there is no indication anywhere in the Missal (or elsewhere) that the orans position itself “belongs” to him in an exclusive way. To the contrary, it is a matter of immemorial custom that this is a posture of prayer, not some sort of priestly stance.

I hope this is a clear explanation.
 
That passage is not in the Roman Missal. I’m not sure where you came across it, but it’s from the 1997 Instruction on Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest. Set in its proper context, the passage you’re quoting isn’t referring to what you think.

That paragraph actually says:
§ 2. To promote the proper identity (of various roles) in this area,** those abuses which are contrary to the provisions of canon 907 are to be eradicated**. In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant. It is a grave abuse for any member of the non-ordained faithful to “quasi preside” at the Mass while leaving only that minimal participation to the priest which is necessary to secure validity.
To begin with, that is not a very good translation. The authentic text, at 89 Acta Apostolicae Sedis 852, 869 (1997), of the sentence you’re concerned with says:
. . . [A]movendi sunt varii generis abusus contrarii praescripto can. 907, cuius vi in celebratione eucharistica diaconis et christifidelibus non ordinatis non licet proferre orationes et quamlibet aliam partem praecipuam sacerdotis celebrantis—speciatim quidem precem eucharisticam cum doxologia conclusiva—vel explere actiones et actus qui eiusdem celebrantis sunt proprii.
As I expect you’ll see, a more accurate translation would say:
The various kinds of abuses are to be eliminated which are contrary to the prescript of Canon 907, by the force of which is it not permitted to deacons and unordained members of the faithful to offer the prayers and any other part belonging to the priest celebrant—especially the Eucharistic prayer with concluding doxology**—or carry out the actions and gestures which are proper to the same celebrant.**
If you would have followed my link you would have known where I got it from.:rolleyes:

Even with your more"acurate translation" It says what I bolded that same thing. It is not proper to carry out the gestures(oran position). I agree that Peggy Fry Catholic Answers Apologist quoted the wrong document but it doesn’t make her answer wrong.
The Roman Missal does not allow for the faithful to raise their hands in the “orans” position (or hold hands) during Mass. Such posture is reserved for the priest.
Article 6:
§ 2. … In eucharistic celebrations deacons and non-ordained members of the faithful may not pronounce prayers — e.g. especially the eucharistic prayer, with its concluding doxology — or any other parts of the liturgy reserved to the celebrant priest. Neither may deacons or non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the same priest celebrant.”
Recommended reading:
About That Orans Posture
In the end it does not equate to there being no prohibition or document against using the oran position. Simpy not true.
 
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