Our Lady of Fatima and Islam

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ontheway
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
O

Ontheway

Guest
Why did Our Lady make her appearance in a place called Fatima? Is there any significance to this seeming coincidence? Fatima is the name of Mohamed’s daughter.
 
SyroMalankara said:
ewtn.com/library/mary/olislam.htm
Click to expand...
I actually knew a Muslim family which made the trip - at the time I didn’t know exactly why they would do such a thing and chalked it up to curious tourism.

I’m always curious about when things like this happen - for instance why the shrine of Moinuddin Chishti in Ajmer has a habit of attracting not only Sunnis and Shi’ites, but also Hindus, Jains, and yes even the occasional Christian.

We should unpack this though = Which Muslims are actually going to your Fatima?

The answer I keep turning up is the Shi’ites. (Well, yes and some Sufis because heck… Sufis even end up in Hindu and Buddhist temples!)

The Salafist Sunnis scowl at the notion that this is an actual thing, putting such devotion in a shrine on the level of their objections to the Barelvi/Sufi position for shrine-keeping in the Islamic world.

To them, this is either mass delusion, hallucination, or worse an attempt by Shaytaan to corrupt Islam.

The Shi’ites that buy into Fatima take a very different bent, they see this as some sort of mystical plan for reunification.

The interesting thing is, interpretations of this plan doesn’t necessarily end up with you Christians all becoming Shi’ite or something like that. [That is what i would expect right?] There’s a sense that there’s a truth here that’s transcendental, beyond words and dogmas, and its founded somehow on the appearance of Mary the Mother of Jesus.

I’ve always wondered about that as well.

I guess the Shi’ite penchant for mysticism runs on parallel ground with some versions of Christianity. After all, Shi’ism is heavily affected by Pre-Islamic practices, or so the Sunnis say. They even have a kind of “Passion of the Christ,” with the “Passion of Husayn” - ie: the Martyrdom of a descendant of their prophet. Their celebrations of it are quite…Elaborate…

They also have a concept of a saint or holy man which is generally rejected by all the non-Sufi Sunni muslims…
 
Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote this;

Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as “Our Lady of Fatima” as pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too.

There are stories on-line testifying to this as well.
 
Ontheway said:
Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote this;

Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as “Our Lady of Fatima” as pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too.

There are stories on-line testifying to this as well.
Click to expand...
I like this! 👍
 
TheAtheist said:
I actually knew a Muslim family which made the trip - at the time I didn’t know exactly why they would do such a thing and chalked it up to curious tourism.

I’m always curious about when things like this happen - for instance why the shrine of Moinuddin Chishti in Ajmer has a habit of attracting not only Sunnis and Shi’ites, but also Hindus, Jains, and yes even the occasional Christian.

We should unpack this though = Which Muslims are actually going to your Fatima?

The answer I keep turning up is the Shi’ites. (Well, yes and some Sufis because heck… Sufis even end up in Hindu and Buddhist temples!)

The Salafist Sunnis scowl at the notion that this is an actual thing, putting such devotion in a shrine on the level of their objections to the Barelvi/Sufi position for shrine-keeping in the Islamic world.

To them, this is either mass delusion, hallucination, or worse an attempt by Shaytaan to corrupt Islam.

The Shi’ites that buy into Fatima take a very different bent, they see this as some sort of mystical plan for reunification.

The interesting thing is, interpretations of this plan doesn’t necessarily end up with you Christians all becoming Shi’ite or something like that. [That is what i would expect right?] There’s a sense that there’s a truth here that’s transcendental, beyond words and dogmas, and its founded somehow on the appearance of Mary the Mother of Jesus.

I’ve always wondered about that as well.

I guess the Shi’ite penchant for mysticism runs on parallel ground with some versions of Christianity. After all, Shi’ism is heavily affected by Pre-Islamic practices, or so the Sunnis say. They even have a kind of “Passion of the Christ,” with the “Passion of Husayn” - ie: the Martyrdom of a descendant of their prophet. Their celebrations of it are quite…Elaborate…

They also have a concept of a saint or holy man which is generally rejected by all the non-Sufi Sunni muslims…
Click to expand...
I buy into Fatima
 
Michael68 said:
I buy into Fatima
Click to expand...
Doesn’t that go without saying - your Catholic right?

I’m assuming every Catholic does buy into Fatima.

Because well…your Catholics.

What’s interesting is the Other People from the Other Religion who buy into Fatima.

That’s where the Non-Sequiteur for me is ocurring - these people are STILL Muslim, YET they buy into Fatima.
 
TheAtheist said:
Doesn’t that go without saying - your Catholic right?

I’m assuming every Catholic does buy into Fatima.

Because well…your Catholics.

What’s interesting is the Other People from the Other Religion who buy into Fatima.

That’s where the Non-Sequiteur for me is ocurring - these people are STILL Muslim, YET they buy into Fatima.
Click to expand...
No mystery to me. It was a real event and I understand why people devote themselves to it
 
Michael68 said:
No mystery to me. It was a real event and I understand why people devote themselves to it
Click to expand...
Then why don’t they convert? 🤷

Because according to their Traditionalists, this is an impossibility.

Furthermore - as i was trying to point out - yes they believe in Fatima…

…But do they believe in Fatima the way a Catholic would?

:cough:

renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/111019

Although as I said, from the Shi’ite position, this isn’t “Catholics are all going to become Shi’ites because Fatima somehow proves us right.”

YET it isn’t “Oh we should all become Catholics because Fatima proves them right…”

Its…strange…
 
Michael68 said:
No mystery to me. It was a real event and I understand why people devote themselves to it
Click to expand...
Oh wait…my mistake, i’m getting my head around this thing now.

You (as Catholics) and They (as Muslims) Believe the Event Occurred.

You just disagree about what the Event is supposed to mean.

Its like…2 people watching the ending of a Postmodernist French Film arguing about what the ending was supposed to mean.
 
TheAtheist said:
The interesting thing is, interpretations of this plan doesn’t necessarily end up with you Christians all becoming Shi’ite or something like that. [That is what i would expect right?] There’s a sense that there’s a truth here that’s transcendental, beyond words and dogmas, and its founded somehow on the appearance of Mary the Mother of Jesus.

I’ve always wondered about that as well…
Click to expand...
I don’t think Shiites take Mary as the Mother of God. 😉

As far as Catholics are concerned She’s the Saint closest to Jesus (as his mother where he takes his human nature from) and therefore, pray with her at Fatima. Although it is not required to go all the way to Fatima for it.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I don’t think Shiites take Mary as the Mother of God. 😉

As far as Catholics are concerned She’s the Saint closest to Jesus (as his mother where he takes his human nature from) and therefore, pray with her at Fatima. Although it is not required to go all the way to Fatima for it.

MJ
Click to expand...
they do not see Jesus as God so they do not see Mary as the Mother of God.
 
7_Sorrows said:
they do not see Jesus as God so they do not see Mary as the Mother of God.
Click to expand...
Which leads to the original quesiton… Why are they going in the first place?

Remember, they aren’t mass converting to your religion, which would make sense.

They are still keeping their affiliation/identity as being Islamic…yet they go to Fatima.

After all, i’m assuming if we rule out all the ecumenical-syncretist type religions out there (like the Bahai, and the Hindus, etc et cetc), who believe miracles and things of this sort happens in All Religious Faiths all the time…

Or to put this into concrete terms:

1.) I’m sure the followers of Judaism for instance, do not believe anything happened in Fatima. So they won’t go to Fatima. Make sense.

2.) You guys believe in Fatima, it reinforces your faith and your understanding of the world. You go to Fatima. Still makes sense.

3.) Shi’ite Muslims who do not accept your religion, its primary understanding of the faith and message of Jesus of Nazareth…go to Fatima…

…
…
…
…

:confused:
 
TheAtheist said:
Which leads to the original quesiton… Why are they going in the first place?

Remember, they aren’t mass converting to your religion, which would make sense.

They are still keeping their affiliation/identity as being Islamic…yet they go to Fatima.

After all, i’m assuming if we rule out all the ecumenical-syncretist type religions out there (like the Bahai, and the Hindus, etc et cetc), who believe miracles and things of this sort happens in All Religious Faiths all the time…

Or to put this into concrete terms:

1.) I’m sure the followers of Judaism for instance, do not believe anything happened in Fatima. So they won’t go to Fatima. Make sense.

2.) You guys believe in Fatima, it reinforces your faith and your understanding of the world. You go to Fatima. Still makes sense.

3.) Shi’ite Muslims who do not accept your religion, its primary understanding of the faith and message of Jesus of Nazareth…go to Fatima…

…
…
…
…

:confused:
Click to expand...
They are searching. 🙂

And suffering against Sunni’s maybe?

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
They are searching.🙂 and suffering against Sunni’s maybe?

MJ
Click to expand...
🤷 🤷🤷

Your guess is good…heck…better than mine. This is going well way over my head. 🙂

Edit - You do get conversions from this if what i understand from reading the things i’ve read online is true.

But you also get well tours of Fatima from Islamic groups that seems just as routine as if they were going to visit Karbala or one of their other holy sites.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top