Our Lady of Good Success & question for traditionalists

[Dan_Daly]

Brooklyn also fails to mention that the “Our Lady of Good Success” in the Phillippines is a totally different thing that Marian Horvat’s “Our Lady of Good Success” which is supposed to have occured in Ecuador.

The school in New York has no standing as a Catholic school. I’d invite anyone to contact the local diocese for themselves and verify that.

Pax

 

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn;9327116:

You are skirting the issue by referring us to websites. None of these sites show any declaration by the local bishops or by the CDF in Rome.
**I am happy to stand corrected if you would actually direct me to a Declaration by the local Bishops approving this apparition. **

Also saying such things are celebrated in different countries is a strawman argument that means nothing. It certainly does not mean an apparition is approved. I live in the Philippines and there are many celebrations of unapproved private revelations, visions, apparitions.
None of that means anything without a formal declaration by the local bishop stating an approval.

Can you refer me to one website that says our this is not an approved apparition?

 

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn also fails to mention that the “Our Lady of Good Success” in the Phillippines is a totally different thing that Marian Horvat’s “Our Lady of Good Success” which is supposed to have occured in Ecuador.

The school in New York has no standing as a Catholic school. I’d invite anyone to contact the local diocese for themselves and verify that.

Pax

So it’s just a coincidence that the Philippines Spain and Ecuador all celebrate on the same day. Are you saying there is more than one Lady of Good Success? And where do you get your information from? You make a lot of statements with absolutely nothing to back them up. You say you don’t have to believe me. Okay, but why should I believe you, especially when you give no proof of what you are saying.

 

[thistle]

thistle;9327521:

Can you refer me to one website that says our this is not

an approved apparition?

Why would there be a website saying its not approved. By default its not approved unless there is an official declaration of approval by the local bishop (who is the competent Church authority).
I’m not interested in websites unless they contain the local bishops declaration of approval.
Don’t you understand that its not approved just because some websites say its approved. Its only approved if there is an official declaration from the local bishop.
You are the one claiming its approved by the Church. Okay then. Show me the official Church approval and I’ll accept whatever the declaration states.

 

[alexande]

Try this site; ourladyofgoodsuccess.com/frames-3-4-2005/aaa.htm

Good link.

 

[Brooklyn]

Why would there be a website saying its not approved. By default its not approved unless there is an official declaration of approval by the local bishop (who is the competent Church authority).
I’m not interested in websites unless they contain the local bishops declaration of approval.
Don’t you understand that its not approved just because some websites say its approved. Its only approved if there is an official declaration from the local bishop.
You are the one claiming its approved by the Church. Okay then. Show me the official Church approval and I’ll accept whatever the declaration states.

You obviously don’t want to accept this apparition. That is your right. But you have no right to tell others that it is not true when there is no church teaching against it.

You say that the forum rules here say that we are allowed to discuss apparitions that have not been officially approved. This is from the rules:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=434589

I want to remind our participants of Content Rule 6:

Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.

Material from unapproved private revelations includes:
Personally experienced ‘visions’
Messages God asked you to transmit
Messages from Bayside
Messages from Medjugorje, etc.

If you post material from unapproved private revelations, your account will be subject to the Enforcement Rules, which could include immediate suspension or banning of your account.

You contend that the material I have posted is not true and is of an apparition which is not approved. You also say that an apparition that is not approved is not the same as an unapproved apparition.

Therefore, you should report it to the moderator because if what you say is true, I have broken the forum rules. Our Lady of Good Success is not Bayside and it is not Medjugorje. You will find that out if you contact the moderator.

 

[Dan_Daly]

thistle;9327521:

Can you refer me to one website that says our this is not

an approved apparition?

Ahh, you’ve lowered the standard a good bit then.

You are now asking us to prove a negative. Can you prove I’m not the King of Saturn?

If I claimed that Our Lady of Fatima or Our Lady of Guadalupe or Our Lady of Lourdes were approve apparitions, I could support that claim by referrencing authoritative pronouncements from the Church.

As the one claiming “Our Lady of Good Success” is an approved apparition, it falls to you to present the authoritative pronoucement that it is approved.

Our Lady of Good Success Academy in New York is not a Catholic School in good standing with it’s diocese. The school is in Farmingville, NY, which falls in the Diocese of Rockville Center. Here is the list of Catholic grade schools from the Diocese website:

drvc.org/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=advsearch2&search_id=67

Hmmm…no “Our Lady of Good Success Academy”. Then again, perhaps it’s simply an oversight. The phone number for the diocese department of education is 516-678-5800. Anyone who is interested can call and ask if “Good Success” is in good standing with the Diocese.

 

[Dan_Daly]

Our Lady of Good Success is not Bayside and it is not Medjugorje.

Quite right. It’s a completely different fraud.

Pax

 

[SacredHeartFan]

To the OP:

I myself read all three volumes of the apparitions! I admit, I was quite taken by them and their message. However, as I began researching, I was never able to find a concrete official document. Needless to say, the apparitions happened some two hundred odd years ago, so I guess we’ll never really know. Praying to our Holy Mother under the title of “Good Success” can obviously have no disasterous effects on our spiritual lives (Unless of course, you define Good Success as money, power, etc), so I see no problem invoking the Blessed Mother by that title. The only issue I come into is with the content of the revalations themselves. Pardon my vernacular, but some of them seem “sketchy” to me. Thats just a personal observation. So I guess its all up for grabs. I would just be cautious of throwing money that way (on books, statues, etc) in case it is some scam.

 

[Brooklyn]

Brooklyn;9327553:

Ahh, you’ve lowered the standard a good bit then.

You are now asking us to prove a negative. Can you prove I’m not the King of Saturn?

If I claimed that Our Lady of Fatima or Our Lady of Guadalupe or Our Lady of Lourdes were approve apparitions, I could support that claim by referrencing authoritative pronouncements from the Church

.

As the one claiming “Our Lady of Good Success” is an approved apparition, it falls to you to present the authoritative pronoucement that it is approved.

Our Lady of Good Success Academy in New York is not a Catholic School in good standing with it’s diocese. The school is in Farmingville, NY, which falls in the Diocese of Rockville Center. Here is the list of Catholic grade schools from the Diocese website:

drvc.org/index.php?option=com_mtree&task=advsearch2&search_id=67

Hmmm…no “Our Lady of Good Success Academy”. Then again, perhaps it’s simply an oversight. The phone number for the diocese department of education is 516-678-5800. Anyone who is interested can call and ask if “Good Success” is in good standing with the Diocese.

I’m asking you to prove a negative? I’m asking you to give proof of your statements that this apparition is not approved, and you most obviously cannot do that. I can give you proof of such apparitions as Medjugorje and Bayside, but none exists for Our Lady of Good Sucess, and that is why you cannot do it. I have given you more than enough proof to show that this apparition is celebrated throughout the world, and you refuse to accept it.

Our Lady of Good Success Academy is an SSPX school. But do you think the SSPX would choose a name from an unapproved apparition? Hardly.

I am not talking about the “King of Saturn.” I am talking about a 500 year old apparition which involves a cannonized saint. I am talking about an apparition that was approved by Pope Pius V. I am talking about an apparition that has its own feast day. You made the rather laughable statement that Our Lady of Good Success celebrated in the Philippines was not the same as that celebrated in Ecuador. You seem to have backed off of that, at least.

Your argument would fail miserably in a court of law, and as far as I am concerned, it fails here.

 

[Brooklyn]

Quite right. It’s a completely different fraud.

Pax

What in the world does that mean?

 

[Dan_Daly]

Our Lady of Good Success Academy is co-located with an SSPX chapel…however, it’s not an official SSPX school either:

sspx.org/schools.html

Isn’t that interesting.

 

[Dan_Daly]

What in the world does that mean?

I mean exactly what I said.

So far we’ve established:

-That you have failed to present any documentation of approval for the apparition from the Church.
-That your claim that “Our Lady of Good Success Academy” was a Catholic school in good standing in New York was false.
-That your revised claim that “Our Lady of Good Success Academy” was an SSPX school in New York was false.
-That all of your non-authoritative sources claiming the “apparition” is approved either come directly from a woman who claims the Ordinary Form of the Mass is evil, or are cut and pasted from her website onto other websites.

Pax Christi

 

[Brooklyn]

Our Lady of Good Success Academy is co-located with an SSPX chapel…however, it’s not an official SSPX school either:

sspx.org/schools.html

Isn’t that interesting.

What does that have to do with the name and the validity of the apparition?
The school is a traditional Catholic school and such a school would certainly not choose an unapproved apparition for name.

I am tired of aruging with you. You just throw statements out with nothing to back them up and ignore everything I show you. I’ll leave it to others who read this thread as to what is right and wrong. Our Lady of Good Success is celebrated around the world, and I don’t see anyone anywhere condemning those who do celebrate it.

Good night.

 

[Dan_Daly]

I’m learning as I go, but to the best of my knowledge part of being “a traditional Catholic” is operating within the CHURCH.

As you said, we can leave to reasonable people to evaluate the evidence for themselves.

It was a pleasure discussing this with you Brooklyn. Have a goodnight as well.

Pax Christi

P.S. It is interesting that over the course of the thread you’ve revised your position from “Our Lady of Good Success is approved by the Church” to “Our Lady of Good Success is celebrated around the world.”

All sorts of holidays and events are celebrated by many people all around the world. For example Yom Kippur, Ramadan, Kwanza, Diwali, Veterans’ Day, and the Macy’s Day parade are all celebrated around the world.

Good night again.

 

[Dan_Daly]

-]Birds/-] rats of a feather flock together I guess…

From the first link Brooklyn posted in post #14

Our mission is to help those in the world struggling in the Novus Ordo to realize that the religion that is being taught from Rome is NOT Catholicism. We are converts from the Novus Ordo and we want to help as many people as possible find the true Roman Catholic Faith. May God bless you and Our Blessed Mother keep you.

They also put Pope and Bishop in quotation marks whenever they refer to “Pope” John Paul II or “Pope” Benedict XVI.

Pax Christi

 

[Brooklyn]

-]Birds/-] rats of a feather flock together I guess…

From the first link Brooklyn posted in post #14

They also put Pope and Bishop in quotation marks whenever they refer to “Pope” John Paul II or “Pope” Benedict XVI.

Pax Christi

I did not include this iny my post and I most certainly do not support it and I am extremely offended that you would suggest that I do. Are you suggesting that I am a rat?

I have searched this site for the quote you provided and cannot find it anywhere. Please either give a link or retract this very offensive post. In fact, here is a link to an article from that website supporting what Pope John Paul II said about the internet:

michaeljournal.org/popenet.htm

 

[thistle]

You obviously don’t want to accept this apparition. That is your right. But you have no right to tell others that it is not true when there is no church teaching against it.

You say that the forum rules here say that we are allowed to discuss apparitions that have not been officially approved. This is from the rules:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=434589

I want to remind our participants of Content Rule 6:

Do not post material from unapproved private revelations.

Material from unapproved private revelations includes:
Personally experienced ‘visions’
Messages God asked you to transmit
Messages from Bayside
Messages from Medjugorje, etc.

If you post material from unapproved private revelations, your account will be subject to the Enforcement Rules, which could include immediate suspension or banning of your account.

You contend that the material I have posted is not true and is of an apparition which is not approved. You also say that an apparition that is not approved is not the same as an unapproved apparition.

Therefore, you should report it to the moderator because if what you say is true, I have broken the forum rules. Our Lady of Good Success is not Bayside and it is not Medjugorje. You will find that out if you contact the moderator.

You obviously have not been paying attention to what I said. I said that it is not websites that approve apparitions. It is the Church.
How does the Church approve an apparition? By an intensive investigation and a declaration by the local Bishop deeming the apparition worthy of belief.

What does not approved mean?

It can mean an investigation has not been done at all and so an approval cannot be given.
It can mean the alleged apparitions are still under investigation and a decision has not been made yet.
It can mean an investigation has been done and the decision is that there is no evidence of any supernatural happenings.
It can mean an investigation has been done and the decision is that no supernatural happenings have taken place.

What does approved mean?

It means an investigation has been done and the local Bishop deems the apparition worthy of belief and a public documented declaration has been made.

As you keep claiming that an approval has been given will you please direct us to the official document issued by the Church on this. As I have said several times in this thread I am happy to accept this has been approved by the Church if you can provide such approval to me.

 

[Brooklyn]

You obviously have not been paying attention to what I said. I said that it is not websites that approve apparitions. It is the Church.
How does the Church approve an apparition? By an intensive investigation and a declaration by the local Bishop deeming the apparition worthy of belief.

As you keep claiming that an approval has been given will you please direct us to the official document issued by the Church on this. As I have said several times in this thread I am happy to accept this has been approved by the Church if you can provide such approval to me.

You’re right, websites do not give authority. But websites do give information. Here is a link to a website which gives information about the Conceptionist Convent in Quito, Ecuador which is the official and approved site for our Lady of Good Success. Obviously this site could not exist without the approval of the local bishop. There is a yearly procession there on the feast day, Feb. 2:

Our Lady of Good Success appeared here in the Conceptionist Church Convent to Mariana de Jesus Torres around the same time as the time of the Lily of Quito, and her statue predominates as the treasure of the convent.

The public shares in honoring and venerating her - displayed in all her glory above the main altar - only on months and days designated for her when her miraculous statue is brought out. The whole month of May, she beckons as Queen and mother for her devotees to come to her.

Most other times, she reigns in her place in the convent. After the grand procession held for her in honor of her 400th anniversary in 2011… and after each time she is so honored… she receives intense devotion from the nuns who so lovingly wait on her.

On the feast of her purification, February 2, at 5:00AM, the procession in her honor begins from here. Petitions with the names on them are collected up until that day of her anniversary each year, placed at her feet, there to remain until February 2 of the following year.

Don’t you think that if this apparition was not approved, the local Bishop would not allow these ceremonies and processions? This apparition happened hundreds of years ago, and the body of Mariana de Jesus Torres is still incorrupt. That alone doesn’t mean that the apparition is approved, but in all this time, don’t you think the Church would be warning us about it? Instead, everything says it is approved. Again, this is not Medjugorje or Bayside, both of which have been specifically and publicly condemned by the local Bishops. (The local bishop does not allow official pilgrimages to Medjugorje). This one receives full approval of the local bishop. And it is the bishop who gives approval to apparitions, not Rome. Rome can give assent, but the approval is left to the bishop.

Can you give me a link for an official document pointing to the approval of Lourdes? I can’t find one, but I sure do believe it.

 

[thistle]

You’re right, websites do not give authority. But websites do give information. Here is a link to a website which gives information about the Conceptionist Convent in Quito, Ecuador which is the official and approved site for our Lady of Good Success. Obviously this site could not exist without the approval of the local bishop. There is a yearly procession there on the feast day, Feb. 2:

Our Lady of Good Success appeared here in the Conceptionist Church Convent to Mariana de Jesus Torres around the same time as the time of the Lily of Quito, and her statue predominates as the treasure of the convent.

The public shares in honoring and venerating her - displayed in all her glory above the main altar - only on months and days designated for her when her miraculous statue is brought out. The whole month of May, she beckons as Queen and mother for her devotees to come to her.

Most other times, she reigns in her place in the convent. After the grand procession held for her in honor of her 400th anniversary in 2011… and after each time she is so honored… she receives intense devotion from the nuns who so lovingly wait on her.

On the feast of her purification, February 2, at 5:00AM, the procession in her honor begins from here. Petitions with the names on them are collected up until that day of her anniversary each year, placed at her feet, there to remain until February 2 of the following year.

Don’t you think that if this apparition was not approved, the local Bishop would not allow these ceremonies and processions? This apparition happened hundreds of years ago, and the body of Mariana de Jesus Torres is still incorrupt. That alone doesn’t mean that the apparition is approved, but in all this time, don’t you think the Church would be warning us about it? Instead, everything says it is approved. Again, this is not Medjugorje or Bayside, both of which have been specifically and publicly condemned by the local Bishops. (The local bishop does not allow official pilgrimages to Medjugorje). This one receives full approval of the local bishop. And it is the bishop who gives approval to apparitions, not Rome. Rome can give assent, but the approval is left to the bishop.

Can you give me a link for an official document pointing to the approval of Lourdes? I can’t find one, but I sure do believe it.

On 18 January 1862, Bishop Laurence, the Bishop of Tarbes, gave the solemn declaration:

"We are inspired by the Commission comprising wise, holy, learned and experienced priests who questioned the child, studied the facts, examined everything and weighed all the evidence. We have also called on science, and we remain convinced that the Apparitions are supernatural and divine, and that by consequence, what Bernadette saw was the Most Blessed Virgin. Our convictions are based on the testimony of Bernadette, but above all on the things that have happened, things which can be nothing other than divine intervention".

After the local Bishop approved the apparitions Pope Pius IX authorized the local bishop to permit the veneration of the Virgin Mary in Lourdes in 1862.