Our Lady of Guadalupe - a hoax?

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Irish_Becca

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Recently, I have heard that the church-approved apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a hoax, that Juan Diego probably never existed, and that the cloth with the image of Mary on it is just a painting. Can you shed any light on this? Thank you.
 
Irish_Becca said:
Recently, I have heard that the church-approved apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a hoax, that Juan Diego probably never existed, and that the cloth with the image of Mary on it is just a painting. Can you shed any light on this? Thank you.
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Can you give me the source please.

The news you heard sounds like a hoax instead of the Apparition.
 
Irish_Becca said:
Recently, I have heard that the church-approved apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a hoax, that Juan Diego probably never existed, and that the cloth with the image of Mary on it is just a painting. Can you shed any light on this? Thank you.
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Considering that there has been so much research done on the talma (sp?) itself. I think that if it was a hoax that would have been revealed along time ago. The Church is very careful of what she revealed. So I would ask more questions about your source. Since you can easily find the information on Our Lady of Guadalupe.
 
Irish_Becca said:
Thank you for your replies. Here is one of the sources.

csicop.org/sb/2002-06/guadalupe.html
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The article is in 2002, and it is not reliable source. You can find millions of things going against Catholic on the internet.

Ask ourselves, after 4 years, now in 2006, have you heard anything from the Church about this hoax? I don’t think so.

This kind of articles is not worth reading. They are one of those anti-Catholic.
 
Irish_Becca said:
Recently, I have heard that the church-approved apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a hoax, that Juan Diego probably never existed, and that the cloth with the image of Mary on it is just a painting. Can you shed any light on this? Thank you.
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If you put “Guadalupe hoax” into the search engine, it will bring up information available on the web about those who say it was a hoax.

You will also read about how in the eyes of the image of Mary, on the pupil, a scientist has discovered images too small to have put put there with the technology available.

I did not read them all, but when an apparition is responsible for so many hearts being devoted to Christ, we can expect attacks to happen by Satan. It is a wonder that it hasn’t happended before now.
 
Irish_Becca said:
Thank you for your replies. Here is one of the sources.

csicop.org/sb/2002-06/guadalupe.html
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A look at Dr Nickell bio shows that he is very much into trying to uncover religion. He makes claims that go against many other scientist. From his bio here is a few of his other works.
Inquest of the Shroud of Turin, Secrets of the Supernatural, Looking for a Miracle, Entities
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You can read more here

infidels.org/library/modern/joe_nickell/nickell-bio.html

It sounds like Dr Nickell has a bit of a problem with religion. I would never trust just one source. Try looking at what other scientist have to say about Our Lady of Guadalupe. It is actually very interesting. 👍
 
**Try looking at what other scientist have to say about Our Lady of Guadalupe. It is actually very interesting. **

Can you give examples of other sources?
 
st_lucy said:
A look at Dr Nickell bio shows that he is very much into trying to uncover religion. He makes claims that go against many other scientist. From his bio here is a few of his other works.

You can read more here

infidels.org/library/modern/joe_nickell/nickell-bio.html

It sounds like Dr Nickell has a bit of a problem with religion. I would never trust just one source. Try looking at what other scientist have to say about Our Lady of Guadalupe. It is actually very interesting. 👍
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Thank you! 🙂 Can you or anyone else direct me to some sources about what other scientists say?
 
Irish_Becca said:
Recently, I have heard that the church-approved apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe is a hoax, that Juan Diego probably never existed, and that the cloth with the image of Mary on it is just a painting. Can you shed any light on this? Thank you.
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Irish, you only need to type in Google “Our Lady of Guadalupe” and you will get many website to check out. Here is but a couple:
sancta.org/intro.html
catholic-forum.com/saintS/mary0003.htm
newadvent.org/cathen/07043a.htm
 
water said:
The article is in 2002, and it is not reliable source. You can find millions of things going against Catholic on the internet.

Ask ourselves, after 4 years, now in 2006, have you heard anything from the Church about this hoax? I don’t think so.

This kind of articles is not worth reading. They are one of those anti-Catholic.
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Uh…I thought it was already 2007? 😛
 
Irish Becca,

You have to put yourself into the position of an atheist to understand what is going on. Here we are presented with absolute proof of a miracle–Juan Diego’s “tilma” is still on display at the basilica in Guadeloupe, after all–and there is no way for you to dispute the evidence. What’s a good atheist to do? To accept the evidence would force him to change his mind. The only possible alternative is to close your eyes and deny that anything ever happened. That is what they are doing.

If you ever watched the TV show “Hogan’s Heroes,” the oft-repeated line from Sgt. Schultz of “I see hnnooo-tthink!” (that last word is “nothing” with a very emphatic delivery) is applicable here.
  • Liberian
 
I understand that with the available technology of the time, mankind could not duplicate the aqua-marine in Mary’s shawl. I also remember the eyes actually show a reflection of Juan Diego in them.

There was a wonderful website which covered these, but alas, I haven’t been able to find it again.
 
Gee, here I sit in French south Louisiana. We have a large picture of Our Lady of Guadelupe in our parish hall. We have had the San Antonio Vocal Arts Ensemble come here to present a concert in honor of Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe.

amazon.com/Guadalupe-Virgen-Los-Indios-Savae/dp/B000009QQW/sr=1-4/qid=1171425055/ref=sr_1_4/104-6808970-5626355?ie=UTF8&s=music

Hmm…Our Lady of Guadelupe in New Orleans

amazon.com/Guadalupe-Virgen-Los-Indios-Savae/dp/B000009QQW/sr=1-4/qid=1171425055/ref=sr_1_4/104-6808970-5626355?ie=UTF8&s=music

Whole lotta us Irish types here and we believe. Hey, even the Chieftains believed:

amazon.com/Wide-World-Over-Year-Celebration/dp/B00005YT8U/sr=1-20/qid=1171425476/ref=sr_1_20/104-6808970-5626355?ie=UTF8&s=music

Track 13.

No, I can’t proove it. But I can tell you that we are well over a thousand miles from Mexico in a predominately French area and we believe. Nuestra Senora de Guadelupe…Credo.
 
Within a short time after the apparition, something like 10 million native people in Mexico converted to Catholicism. Sounds pretty miraculous to me.

People are not stupid. Even 16th century people. They eventually figure out when someone is pulling the wool over their eyes. Lots of bogus “miracles” are soon forgotten and have no lasting impact. But Our Lady had a huge impact which continues nearly 5 centuries later.

Now I have read that there was some legitimate suspicion from Church authorities of the image in its early days, trying to downplay stories of its miraculous origin. I also am pretty skepitcal of the supposed reflections in the Virigin’s eyes, at least of the level of detail supposedly found in them, with the bishop and the family and all. (As I recall, there was some digital “image enhancement” involved, which is automatically suspect). But that aside, there remains much about the image which seems genuinely miraculous.

But even if not - our faith does not rest on this miracle, but on the life, death, & resurrection of Jesus Christ!
 
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