D
ddeluna
Guest
How long has December 12 been a holy day in the U.S.? Does anyone know what year the U.S. Bishops mandated this? I think it quite appropriate, just curious when we began recognizing this holy day as “our own”.
- Status
B
Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
It’s not a Holy Day of Obligation in the U.S. It is in Mexico.
D
ddeluna
Guest
I see it in my LOH supplement as a FEAST (not solemnity), yet, I see this on EWTN site at ewtn.com/library/MARY/LADYGUAD.HTM:
1988 — The liturgical celebration of Our Lady of Guadalupe on 12 December was raised to the status of a solemnity in all dioceses in the United States.
1999 — Pope John Paul II, during his third visit to the sanctuary, declared the date of 12 December as a Liturgical Feast for the whole continent.
The above does not make sense. How could the 1988 event have ocurred unless and until the 1999 event ocurred?
On Wikepedia - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe - I see this:
The reason this has come up is that my pastor just emailed me to say a potluck I’m scheduling for the 12th can’t happen until after the mass [he characterized as] holy day. It just got me wondering if it was a feast or solemnity.
1988 — The liturgical celebration of Our Lady of Guadalupe on 12 December was raised to the status of a solemnity in all dioceses in the United States.
1999 — Pope John Paul II, during his third visit to the sanctuary, declared the date of 12 December as a Liturgical Feast for the whole continent.
The above does not make sense. How could the 1988 event have ocurred unless and until the 1999 event ocurred?
On Wikepedia - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe - I see this:
- …At the request of the Special Assembly for the Americas of the Synod of Bishops, he [JP2] named Our Lady of Guadalupe patron of the Americas on January 22, 1999 (with the result that her liturgical celebration had, throughout the Americas, the rank of Solemnity)…*
The reason this has come up is that my pastor just emailed me to say a potluck I’m scheduling for the 12th can’t happen until after the mass [he characterized as] holy day. It just got me wondering if it was a feast or solemnity.
P
Phemie
Guest
In the 1700s it was a feast in Latin America. In 1988 it was raised to Feast status across the US. The Pope’s 1999 proclamation made it a feast in the rest of the Continent, i.e. Canada.
B
benedictgal
Guest
In my neck of the woods (my diocese is on the Texas-Mexico border), Our Lady of Guadalupe is a HUGE feast. However, as Brother Rich correctly pointed out, it is not a Holy Day of Obligation on this side of the Rio Grande. It is one in Mexico. In fact, they have midnight Mass in Mexico City’s Basilica of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
When my PV served as the Cathedral’s first rector, he elected to have a vigil celebration at the Cathedral so as to give the dignity of the true patron feast to the local parish of Our Lady of Guadalupe. We would have a big celebration, including an outdoor fiesta after the Mass, complete with pyro-technical displays. However, the decorations of Advent were to be respected. It worked out really well.
Although OLG is the co-patroness of my diocese, the celebration is not obligatory here. There was some controversy down here when the feast fell on a Sunday. The USCCB issued a document stating that when the feast falls on a Sunday (because it happens during Advent), the Advent Sunday takes precedence. So, all of the celebrations had to be moved to Monday. Furthermore, even though she is the Patroness of the Americas, the feast day is not a Holy Day of Obligation in the United States nor in Canada. The only country that observes it as a holy day of Obligation is Mexico.
When my PV served as the Cathedral’s first rector, he elected to have a vigil celebration at the Cathedral so as to give the dignity of the true patron feast to the local parish of Our Lady of Guadalupe. We would have a big celebration, including an outdoor fiesta after the Mass, complete with pyro-technical displays. However, the decorations of Advent were to be respected. It worked out really well.
Although OLG is the co-patroness of my diocese, the celebration is not obligatory here. There was some controversy down here when the feast fell on a Sunday. The USCCB issued a document stating that when the feast falls on a Sunday (because it happens during Advent), the Advent Sunday takes precedence. So, all of the celebrations had to be moved to Monday. Furthermore, even though she is the Patroness of the Americas, the feast day is not a Holy Day of Obligation in the United States nor in Canada. The only country that observes it as a holy day of Obligation is Mexico.
B
Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
It is a Holy Day, just not a Holy Day of Obligation. I read the word Obligation into the original post accidently.
A
AJV
Guest
A small bit of history on this feast in America:
Even before it was delcared, OL Guadalupe was regarded by the Mexicans as Patroness of the whole of America. The Mexican Proper used to read “Festum Apparitionis B. V. Mariae de Guadalupe, felicissimae nostrae Mexicanae Republicae totiusque Americae a Septentrione principalis Patronae”.
Initially the feast wa sobserved on different dates: Argentina and Uruguay observed it on Feb. 26 and a few other South American dioceses on Feb 15. In the USA the feast was observed by the Province of St. Louis (and Diocese of Lincoln) San Francisco, Chicago, Dubunque, Milwaukee and Concordia as a “Greater Double” on Dec. 12. It was also observed by the Province of New Orleans, but on November 16. Santa Fe and Texas observed it as a “Double of the I Class” (the highest rank at the time).
At the end of the 19th century, it was decided by more of the American bishops to introduce this feast, which was done with the rank of “greater double”. In 1963, the approved calendar for the USA contained the feast with the rank of “III Class” and the Mexican Office was granted to it. Some of the places listed above had a rank of “II Class” or “I Class”
In the 80’s: Both entries are not wholly correct. The 1987 request of the American bishops inscribed OL Guadalupe as “Feast” in the US calendar (contra the EWTN site article). The 1999 decree of the CDW established it as a Feast in both North and South America with rank of “Solemnity” wherever this rank was already observed. (contra Wikipedia) Thus in most dioceses of the USA, it is still a feast
There are also at least 3 texts (or rather Opening Prayers) for this feast: the American, the Mexican, and a more recent Latin one published for wherever else it is observed as an optional memorial.
USA:
Mexico:
Universal (since 2003)
D
ddeluna
Guest
Well that was about as comprehensive an answer as I would ever have the right to! Thank you very much for that. It does clear it up for me, and some very interesting history as well. Good stuff!
Again, THANK YOU!
Again, THANK YOU!
B
BrJason
Guest
Just a follow up question. My community has moved the celebration of this Feast to this Sunday, 9 December. Is this appropriate. I feel as though it is completely unacceptable to celebrate this on Sunday, which is reserved for our Lord. It has been moved as a concession to the local Hispanic community. Anything on the books prohibiting occurrences such as this?
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam,
Jason
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam,
Jason
B
benedictgal
Guest
Several years ago, when the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe fell on a Sunday, the USCCB issued a document (you might want to visit their website www.usccb.org and check out the Divine Worship/Liturgy section) stating that the Sundays of Advent take precedence over other feasts, inclusive of both the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception and the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. This meant that neither the readings nor prayers proper to those feasts were to replace the Advent Sunday. The faithful could, however, celebrate the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe the day after (as in the case with the Immaculate Conception when December 8th falls on a Sunday), but, Sunday needed to be respected.
I am most curious as to why a concessoin would have to have been made in your community, since for Mexicans and Mexican-Americans, December 12th is the high point. Inasmuch as December 9th is the feast of St. Juan Diego, it would make no sense to “move” the feast to that date, since December 12th doesn’t conflict with Sunday.
D
ddeluna
Guest
That’s bizarre. Most curious change. I just don’t get the logic.
D
Digitonomy
Guest
Does that include the Caribbean? And is Greenland, being Danish, counted as part of North America, or Europe?
A
AJV
Guest
If I had to guess:
Yes, because it is part of CELAM
Europe because it is in a European diocese.And is Greenland, being Danish, counted as part of North America, or Europe?
P
puzzleannie
Guest
her feast on Dec 12
it is not a Holy Day of obligation, but it does honor Mary the Immaculate Conception, patroness of the United States, whose feast on Dec. 8 is a Holy Day of obligation in the US. Under the title of OL of Guadalupe she is patron of Mexico, and was named patroness of all the Americas by Pope John Paul II. for an excellent article on the boom in honoring her under this title see the current issue of Our Sunday visitor.
B
BrJason
Guest
As an addendum to my previous post regarding the transfer of OL of Guadalupe to Sunday 9 December. The conventual masses of the day “2nd Sunday of Advent” will be maintained at their regular times, with the OL of Guadalupe being celebrated as an additional mass. After searching the USCCB website for about 30 minutes I could not find the document which was mentioned in the reply to my previous post. Your thoughts?
D
Digitonomy
Guest
My suspicion is that it allows Latinos to celebrate the day as a community, which would not be the case if it were on a weekday where people had to work, go to school, etc.
It does raise the issue mentioned as to whether the parish is allowed to celebrate such a mass on Sunday.
It also raises the issue being debated on another thread of whether such a mass fulfills ones Sunday obligation without the readings of that day, notwithstanding Canon 1248.
P
PhilotheaZ
Guest
B
benedictgal
Guest
That is actually a very poor argument for moving the feast to Sunday. If the USCCB is not going to make the excpetion for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, they aren’t going to do so for Our Lady of Guadalupe. In fact, there is documentation in the USCCB regarding this matter (they only reiterate this when OLG falls on a Sunday).
The Hispanic Community shows up in droves even in weekdays to celebrate the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe, irrespective of where they are or what time it is. December 12th is very important. The Masses at 5AM are filled to capacity (sometimes, standing room only) even in the middle of the week. For OLG they will make time, believe me. I have personally seen this.
- Status