Our Lady of Mt. Carmel

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Tomorrow morning a visiting bishop is celebrating a special mass for the feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel at my local parish. I know that Carmel is only a memorial on the universal calendar. It is not the patronal feast of the parish (St. Edmund’s is the parish name), but the pastor is a Carmelite friar; I know that this feast is celebrated as a solemnity within the Carmelite order. As far as I can tell, the visiting bishop who will be celebrating the mass is not himself a Carmelite.
My question is - would there still be a provision for this non-Carmelite bishop to celebrate tomorrow’s mass as a solemnity (Gloria, Credo, etc.) rather than as a simple memorial? Just curious.
 
twf said:
Tomorrow morning a visiting bishop is celebrating a special mass for the feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel at my local parish. I know that Carmel is only a memorial on the universal calendar. It is not the patronal feast of the parish (St. Edmund’s is the parish name), but the pastor is a Carmelite friar; I know that this feast is celebrated as a solemnity within the Carmelite order. As far as I can tell, the visiting bishop who will be celebrating the mass is not himself a Carmelite.
My question is - would there still be a provision for this non-Carmelite bishop to celebrate tomorrow’s mass as a solemnity (Gloria, Credo, etc.) rather than as a simple memorial? Just curious.
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Yes. The fact that the pastor is Carmelite and the ordinary authority of the bishop himself.
 
twf said:
Tomorrow morning a visiting bishop is celebrating a special mass for the feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel at my local parish. I know that Carmel is only a memorial on the universal calendar. It is not the patronal feast of the parish (St. Edmund’s is the parish name), but the pastor is a Carmelite friar; I know that this feast is celebrated as a solemnity within the Carmelite order. As far as I can tell, the visiting bishop who will be celebrating the mass is not himself a Carmelite.
My question is - would there still be a provision for this non-Carmelite bishop to celebrate tomorrow’s mass as a solemnity (Gloria, Credo, etc.) rather than as a simple memorial? Just curious.
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Our local bishop does that same at our local Carmelite friary.
 
twf said:
My question is - would there still be a provision for this non-Carmelite bishop to celebrate tomorrow’s mass as a solemnity (Gloria, Credo, etc.) rather than as a simple memorial? Just curious.
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If the parish is not a Carmelite parish it would seem it does not warrant being celebrated as a solemnity.
 
twf said:
The pastor of the parish is a Carmelite friar.
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That does not make the parish Carmelite. The local calendar does not accommodate the priest, it’s based on the parish. If it’s a truly bothersome question, as canonists say, call the chancery.
 
MorEphrem said:
That does not make the parish Carmelite. The local calendar does not accommodate the priest, it’s based on the parish. If it’s a truly bothersome question, as canonists say, call the chancery.
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I have no idea whether tomorrow’s Mass will be celebrated as a memorial or as a solemnity - I was just curious what the options might be. Regardless, it will obviously be celebrated with the “spirit” of a full feast as a bishop is flying in from another province etc for the occasion.
 
twf said:
Tomorrow morning a visiting bishop is celebrating a special mass for the feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel at my local parish. I know that Carmel is only a memorial on the universal calendar. It is not the patronal feast of the parish (St. Edmund’s is the parish name), but the pastor is a Carmelite friar; I know that this feast is celebrated as a solemnity within the Carmelite order. As far as I can tell, the visiting bishop who will be celebrating the mass is not himself a Carmelite.
My question is - would there still be a provision for this non-Carmelite bishop to celebrate tomorrow’s mass as a solemnity (Gloria, Credo, etc.) rather than as a simple memorial? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Yes, it can certainly be done.

The presence of the bishop alone invites a more solemn celebration of the liturgy. The bishop can use his pontificals to add solemnity. It is appropriate that he should be attended by deacons, his master of ceremonies, and a concelebrating presbyterate.

The music program can be enhanced to the same effect.

Incense can be used in any or all of the appointed places.

As to the use of the Gloria and the Creed, that is addressed in the GIRM:
*53. The Gloria is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. The text of this hymn may not be replaced by any other text. The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.

It is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at special celebrations of a more solemn character.
  1. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.*
 
twf said:
I have no idea whether tomorrow’s Mass will be celebrated as a memorial or as a solemnity - I was just curious what the options might be. Regardless, it will obviously be celebrated with the “spirit” of a full feast as a bishop is flying in from another province etc for the occasion.
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Optional Memorial
 
Don_Ruggero said:
Yes, it can certainly be done.

The presence of the bishop alone invites a more solemn celebration of the liturgy. The bishop can use his pontificals to add solemnity. It is appropriate that he should be attended by deacons, his master of ceremonies, and a concelebrating presbyterate.

The music program can be enhanced to the same effect.

Incense can be used in any or all of the appointed places.

As to the use of the Gloria and the Creed, that is addressed in the GIRM:
*53. The Gloria is a very ancient and venerable hymn in which the Church, gathered together in the Holy Spirit, glorifies and entreats God the Father and the Lamb. The text of this hymn may not be replaced by any other text. The Gloria is intoned by the priest or, if appropriate, by a cantor or by the choir; but it is sung either by everyone together, or by the people alternately with the choir, or by the choir alone. If not sung, it is to be recited either by all together or by two parts of the congregation responding one to the other.

It is sung or said on Sundays outside the Seasons of Advent and Lent, on solemnities and feasts, and at special celebrations of a more solemn character*.
  1. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.
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Thanks Father. I just came from the Mass in question and it was much as you indicated. The visiting bishop celebrated with pontificals and concelebrated with 5 local Carmelite Friars. The Gloria and Credo were sung / recited. It was quite lovely. Saturday morning on a summer day and we had a packed house for Carmel. You might expect that at the cathedral but in a suburban parish I find that turnout impressive. 🙂
 
drforjc said:
In the general calendar, correct. In the Carmelite calendar, a Solemnity. Being that it is Carmelite friars celebrating this is more likely.
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I know that I am eligible as a Confraternity member for plenary indulgence on these days:

O.Carm/O.C.D.

– St Simon Stock (May 16) mem./opt. mem.
– Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel (July 16) Solemnity
– St Elijah, prophet (July 20) Solemnity/feast
– St Therese (Lisieux) of the Child Jesus (October 1) feast
– St Teresa (Avila) of Jesus (October 15) feast/Solemnity
– All Carmelite Saints (November 14) feast
– St John of the Cross - (December 14) feast/Solemnity
 
Vico said:
I know that I am eligible as a Confraternity member for plenary indulgence on these days:

O.Carm/O.C.D.

– St Simon Stock (May 16) mem./opt. mem.
– Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel (July 16) Solemnity
– St Elijah, prophet (July 20) Solemnity/feast
– St Therese (Lisieux) of the Child Jesus (October 1) feast
– St Teresa (Avila) of Jesus (October 15) feast/Solemnity
– All Carmelite Saints (November 14) feast
– St John of the Cross - (December 14) feast/Solemnity
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Glad to hear that you are in the Confraternity. It is good to hear from other members of our larger Carmelite family.
 
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