Our lady of the rosary, Fatima, and the aparitions

[CradleCath]

not my links… ! ! ! ! !

I was appalled also… in fact, I *** one of the links to avoid the language.

Thus you can understand why I, and a number of others, are convinced that if one has to offer those kinds of evidence or reference, for ANY reason, it is over the edge. There was no effort to disclaim or explain.

They truly are “special”

.

Sorry if I inferred that you were using these sites as “reference”, I know that it was given by another poster to “verify” her stance.

And yes, any Catholic who offers that kind of “proof” is & should be suspect. That’s about as feeble as the “I learned all I know from other forums” given a few days ago.

I just hope that we can keep this board respectable.

 

[CradleCath]

At the risk of “flogging a dead horse,” let me post the following info taken from the EWTN website. My sources in Fatima itself tell me that this is the truth of the situation regarding the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Thank you SO MUCH for this info. I knew that Russia had long ago been consecrated to the Virgin, but your post giving exact dates & statements really helps.

 

[nice2000]

Thank you SO MUCH for this info. I knew that Russia had long ago been consecrated to the Virgin, but your post giving exact dates & statements really helps.

**The word “Russia” (country) was not mentioned in any of the Popes consecrations. The Pope used the word “world” in all the past consecrations. Jesus & Mary were very specific in their requests.

Let us all pray that in the next consecration, that the Pope will Consecrate “Russia” to the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Heart and to Jesus Sacred Heart.**

 

[Eilish_Maura]

**The word “Russia” (country) was not mentioned in any of the Popes consecrations. The Pope used the word “world” in all the past consecrations. Jesus & Mary were very specific in their requests.

Let us all pray that in the next consecration, that the Pope will Consecrate “Russia” to the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Heart and to Jesus Sacred Heart.**

The ‘world’ meant everywhere and everyone EXCEPT Russia?

 

[MrS]

The ‘world’ meant everywhere and everyone EXCEPT Russia?

It comes as no suprise that you are totally unfamiliar with the actual message of Our Lady of Fatima… that the consecration be one of Russia (not the world, not the world and Russia…etc) .

And yes, the Consecration of 1984 was accepted in heaven, as Sr Lucia (the original, not your suggested duplicate) had indicated… afterall, what Papal consecration would not be accepted in heaven. It was never stated by either Sr Lucia nor JPII that the '84 consecration was the one specifically asked for by Our Lady. (unless you consider the only typed letter ever from Sr Lucia - maybe - as “proof”)

See, I got through a whole post without asking you a question (which you would never answer anyway)

Did I do good? oops…question:blush:

.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

It comes as no suprise that you are totally unfamiliar with the actual message of Our Lady of Fatima… that the consecration be one of Russia (not the world, not the world and Russia…etc) .

And yes, the Consecration of 1984 was accepted in heaven, as Sr Lucia (the original, not your suggested duplicate) had indicated… afterall, what Papal consecration would not be accepted in heaven. It was never stated by either Sr Lucia nor JPII that the '84 consecration was the one specifically asked for by Our Lady. (unless you consider the only typed letter ever from Sr Lucia - maybe - as “proof”)

See, I got through a whole post without asking you a question (which you would never answer anyway)

Did I do good? oops…question:blush:

.

I am surprised you did not notice that I did NOT ask you but the person who stressed how the word “Russia” was not used.

 

[nice2000]

Hi Eilish,

Yes, the Pope, along with the Bishops, must consecrate “Russia” to the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Heart.
Jesus and Mary’s request are that the Pope must order the Bishops of the entire world to organize, each in his own cathedral, a solemn and public ceremony of Reparation and of Consecration of Russia to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary." The country Russia has to be clearly the object of the consecration. In all the past consecration’s, the Popes used the word “world” instead of “Russia”.

Russia will continue to spread it’s errors throughout the entire world until it is Consecrated apart by itself.

We must pray the Rosary daily and try hard to do the Five First Saturdays, so that the change of heart of the Pope and Bishops will lead them to the Consecration of “Russia”.

 

[ac_claire]

Hi Eilish,

Yes, the Pope, along with the Bishops, must consecrate “Russia” to the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Heart.
Jesus and Mary’s request are that the Pope must order the Bishops of the entire world to organize, each in his own cathedral, a solemn and public ceremony of Reparation and of Consecration of Russia to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary." The country Russia has to be clearly the object of the consecration. In all the past consecration’s, the Popes used the word “world” instead of “Russia”.

Russia will continue to spread it’s errors throughout the entire world until it is Consecrated apart by itself.

I don’t doubt the sincerity of your devotion, but this view of a legalistic “gotcha!” Jesus and Mary is ridiculous, IMO. I don’t understand why a person would willingly follow such a strange characterization of Christ and His Mother when it’s not in any way corroborated by Sacred Scripture or Tradition.

I don’t say that to be insulting. If you’d like, please help me understand.

 

[scott1228]

In addition to Russia, the Holy Father should mention Nice2000 by name.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Hi Eilish,

Yes, the Pope, along with the Bishops, must consecrate “Russia” to the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Heart.
Jesus and Mary’s request are that the Pope must order the Bishops of the entire world to organize, each in his own cathedral, a solemn and public ceremony of Reparation and of Consecration of Russia to the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary." The country Russia has to be clearly the object of the consecration. In all the past consecration’s, the Popes used the word “world” instead of “Russia”.

Russia will continue to spread it’s errors throughout the entire world until it is Consecrated apart by itself.

We must pray the Rosary daily and try hard to do the Five First Saturdays, so that the change of heart of the Pope and Bishops will lead them to the Consecration of “Russia”.

The Church is very wise about leaving belief in private revelation as optional.

 

[CradleCath]

The Church is very wise about leaving belief in private revelation as optional.

True & those who **study **those “private” revelations that the Church APPROVES are wise too.

There can be extremes on both ends of this issue. People can base their entire faith upon some miracle, others can completely reject all of them & try to live their lives without any help other than Scripture.

The Protestant “reformers” were the first to reject all private revelation, it was a MUST for them because all private revelation & miracles that occured prior to Martin Luther had confirmed that the Catholic Church was the one, true Church founded by Christ & that He still spoke to the world through His Church. Protestants could not take the chance that any new revelation, such as those at Fatima would be binding on all Christians. One thing they could not refute was Scripture— "Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic utterances. Test everything; retain what is good" (1 Thess. 5:19–21).

The "reformers’ denials of all new revelation led people to become confused about the difference between private & public revelation. (I still cannot figure out why Fatima is considered private revelation when the spinning sun was witnessed by 70,000 people )

This attitude toward miracles has been changing during the 20th century. After all, we have Mohammed, the Mormons & the Charismatic movement. In the latter, with it’s emotional approach to faith, almost EVERYONE claims to have spoken in tongues, seen Christ, spoken with St. Peter & having been knocked to the ground by the Holy Spirit.

In short, I think it’s the responsibility of all Catholics to search & study the revelations that have the appoval of the Church. To do less, is self-defeating.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

True & those who **study **those “private” revelations that the Church APPROVES are wise too.

I am not sure who you are referring to but I only spoke about the Church.

 

[nice2000]

I don’t doubt the sincerity of your devotion, but this view of a legalistic “gotcha!” Jesus and Mary is ridiculous, IMO. I don’t understand why a person would willingly follow such a strange characterization of Christ and His Mother when it’s not in any way corroborated by Sacred Scripture or Tradition.

I don’t say that to be insulting. If you’d like, please help me understand.

Hi Ac Claire,

You are not insulting me, This is what i believe. I doubt if you would ever understand it.

 

[nice2000]

In addition to Russia, the Holy Father should mention Nice2000 by name.

Hi Scott,

Yes, the Holy Father should pray for me I need prayer too. He should mention Scott’s name too.

 

[nice2000]

True & those who **study **those “private” revelations that the Church APPROVES are wise too.

There can be extremes on both ends of this issue. People can base their entire faith upon some miracle, others can completely reject all of them & try to live their lives without any help other than Scripture.

The Protestant “reformers” were the first to reject all private revelation, it was a MUST for them because all private revelation & miracles that occured prior to Martin Luther had confirmed that the Catholic Church was the one, true Church founded by Christ & that He still spoke to the world through His Church. Protestants could not take the chance that any new revelation, such as those at Fatima would be binding on all Christians. One thing they could not refute was Scripture— "Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic utterances. Test everything; retain what is good" (1 Thess. 5:19–21).

The "reformers’ denials of all new revelation led people to become confused about the difference between private & public revelation. (I still cannot figure out why Fatima is considered private revelation when the spinning sun was witnessed by 70,000 people )

This attitude toward miracles has been changing during the 20th century. After all, we have Mohammed, the Mormons & the Charismatic movement. In the latter, with it’s emotional approach to faith, almost EVERYONE claims to have spoken in tongues, seen Christ, spoken with St. Peter & having been knocked to the ground by the Holy Spirit.

In short, I think it’s the responsibility of all Catholics to search & study the revelations that have the appoval of the Church. To do less, is self-defeating.

Hi Cradle Catholic,

You stated in your post…listed below…

The "reformers’ denials of all new revelation led people to become confused about the difference between private & public revelation. (I still cannot figure out why Fatima is considered private revelation when the spinning sun was witnessed by 70,000 people )

That is so true, I agree, that the miracle of the Sun was not a private revelation. It was public, 70,000 people witnessed the miracle.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Hi Cradle Catholic,

You stated in your post…listed below…

The "reformers’ denials of all new revelation led people to become confused about the difference between private & public revelation. (I still cannot figure out why Fatima is considered private revelation when the spinning sun was witnessed by 70,000 people )

That is so true, I agree, that the miracle of the Sun was not a private revelation. It was public, 70,000 people witnessed the miracle.

The reason it is private revelation is because of how the Church defines such things - and it has NOTHING to do with how many ‘witnesses’.

Some more information is here courtesy of EWTN: ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm

 

[nice2000]

The reason it is private revelation is because of how the Church defines such things - and it has NOTHING to do with how many ‘witnesses’.

Some more information is here courtesy of EWTN: ewtn.com/expert/answers/apparitions.htm

Hi Elish,

No problem, i’m not arguing with you. It still was a public miracle, 70,000 people witnessed the Miracle of Sun.

 

[MrS]

Hi Elish,

No problem, i’m not arguing with you. It still was a public miracle, 70,000 people witnessed the Miracle of Sun.

And after witnessing the spinning and approaching sun, they witnessed another miracle…

Their clothes were dried, and the deep mud they stood in was dried out…in an instant… and no one was burned.

.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Hi Elish,

No problem, i’m not arguing with you. It still was a public miracle, 70,000 people witnessed the Miracle of Sun.

Not sure argue is the right term BUT it seems you want to use these numbers to make the whole thing into something it is not per the Church - and that is private revelation.

 

[nice2000]

And after witnessing the spinning and approaching sun, they witnessed another miracle…

Their clothes were dried, and the deep mud they stood in was dried out…in an instant… and no one was burned.

.

Hi MrS,

Isn’t that amaaaazing ! I can’t even imagine the joy and awe of the 70,000 persons. But just thinking about it makes my heart joyful and hopeful.

Yes, it had rained all night and all day, 70,000 people waited all night into the day to see Our Lady, the mud was up to their ankles (70,000), their clothes and skin were soaked down to the bone marrow. At first they thought the sun was falling, but it was not, the sun changed many different colors while spinning. There were many sick people who were cured that day as well.

That is why this miracle is so important. God has meant for this specific miracle to be uniquely for our times; for our “modern” times. There is also no doubt that this miracle was intended to be an absolute proof of Our Lady’s Universal Queenship.

The events that took place on October 13th at Fatima…Our Lady, at the request of Sister Lucy, who sought to prove the authenticity of Her Fatima Message to the unbelievers.