Our Lady's last days on Earth

[bpbasilphx]

**All the Church Fathers believed that Mary died.

Dogma-onlyism is a modern sorry consequence of the pope’s infallibiblity. “If it’s not defined infallibly I won’t believe it.” I don’t think the fathers of Vatican I had that in mind. Card. Newman did.**

**As I’ve pointed out, if it’s in the liturgical formularies of the Church, it’s the faith of the Church.

And I wonder of “defined dogma-onlyism” isn’t a form of fundamentalism for Catholics.**

 

[gakroeger]

All the Church Fathers believed that Mary died.

Dogma-onlyism is a modern sorry consequence of the pope’s infallibiblity. “If it’s not defined infallibly I won’t believe it.” I don’t think the fathers of Vatican I had that in mind. Card. Newman did.

My argument is that the faith is broader than just the defined dogmas, it’s a whole, and it’s a relationship with living persons Jesus, Mary and the Saints, you know them by loving them and being in contact with them not just throught defined teachings about them.

That God exists is not defined by the Church in any way yet it’s quite necessary to believe.

Fair enough, however, how do you come to the conclusion that ALL church Fathers believe that Mary died? I don’t think it was even a point of discussion during most of the time they lived ( I am certainly not an expert on this, however, I have read much discussion about this from both sides). And as mentioned in a previous post, I do not think it is essential to ones faith to believe either way as long as one believes in the fact of the Assumption iitself.

 

[gakroeger]

**All the Church Fathers believed that Mary died.

Dogma-onlyism is a modern sorry consequence of the pope’s infallibiblity. “If it’s not defined infallibly I won’t believe it.” I don’t think the fathers of Vatican I had that in mind. Card. Newman did.**

**As I’ve pointed out, if it’s in the liturgical formularies of the Church, it’s the faith of the Church.

And I wonder of “defined dogma-onlyism” isn’t a form of fundamentalism for Catholics.**

The following quote is from a book written in 1965 by Bernard F. Deutsch “Our Lady of Ephesus”

A conference was held by Father M. Hetzenauer, professor at the Apollinaris, on February 27, 1921, toward the end of the reign of Benedict XV (1914-1922), he delivered a well-documented lecture on Ephesus and Panaya at the Pontifical Roman Major Seminary, in the presence of seven cardinals and numerous prelates of the Roman Curia.
The letter from Rome was the result of the presentation to the Holy Father of a small book, In 1922 Poulin forwarded to Pope Pius XI (1922-1939) his latest literary endeavor on the place of Mary’s death, and he received a letter from the Secretariat of State, signed by Cardinal Gasparri and dated August 13th 1922. Gasparri wrote that the Holy Father had given the brochure the warmest welcome and wished to congratulate Poulin for his contribution in this disputed question.
Pope Pius XI was succeeded by Pope Pius XII (1939-1958) who among the many things for which he will be long remember defined the dogma of Mary’s Assumption on November 1, 1950. In that definition the questions of both Mary’s death and the site of the Assumption were omitted, and thus these matters are still open for discussion. But just as the discovery of Panaya in 1891 had generated much interest in Mary’s home, and produced studies of and against Ephesus, so also did the official proclamation of Mary’s Assumption, and the subsequent dedication at Ephesus of the reconstructed Panaya in August, 1951.