Our local church has introduced (Children reading the Sunday Scriptures) and it’s beautiful

[KMC]

Getting one’s undergarments in a wad over how someone reads at Mass is, indeed, petty and missing the larger picture of why we’re there.

The larger picture is “What is God saying?” Every effort should be made to conveying that larger picture. Readers who know how to pronounce the various terms, utilize punctuation, etc, are more conducive to the larger picture. Its not about “getting my panties in a wad,” its simply about maximizing the moment.

Nobody’s going to develop a talent for reading if they don’t get practice. Reading at Mass isn’t one of the Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit, so it’s fair to give children experience to build on. And they’re certainly not going to get good knowing that adults who should be their role models are making disparaging comments about them online.

My parish has a ministry for lectors. Certainly to your point, there are children’s masses…let the kids read at those masses, not just any Sunday mass. Also, being honest is not disparaging. Constant mispronunciation of words IS distracting, no matter the age of the reader, however it is more common with younger Catholics.

But since you mentioned it, I don’t think a lot of grown-up parish musicians are all that talented, either. I’m just not going to let them “spoil” the Mass for me.

It doesn’t spoil mass for me either…but is there an issue with trying to have the more talented singers be the cantors, or choir leaders?

The bottom line is that if your parish allows children to read and you don’t like it, your choices are 1. get upset and stew about it online, 2. get upset and stew about it offline 3. complain to the parish office with likely unsuccessful results, or 4. come to a place of acceptance about it and savor the Mass regardless.

To me, this wouldn’t even be a multiple choice question. I’ve managed to come to the fourth conclusion despite some pretty interesting cantors at my parish.

Nobody is stewing. Interesting how being honest is “stewing”. There actually is a 5th option, which I utilize: I avoid children’s masses.

 

[blackforest]

This forum is for ages 13 and over. Presumably by “children” we’re talking about younger than 13. So there is no way they’d know if a bunch of strangers were making comments about them online, unless you were to run and tell them. If younger children are on here reading this forum, then they should not be.

If you wouldn’t say any of this to a 10-year-old’s face, why gossip about it online? You have a Missal to see the Word of God if you can’t hear it.

but is there an issue with trying to have the more talented singers be the cantors, or choir leaders?

No. Like I said, my parish has children try out.

I avoid children’s masses.

We don’t have “children’s Mass.” We have one week at which children read at all of the Masses. Would you stay home and miss your obligation in this case?

 

[KMC]

We don’t have “children’s Mass.” We have one week at which children read at all of the Masses. Would you stay home and miss your obligation in this case?

No, but I have many options for mass where I live. At my parish, since there is not a school, there are usually no children’s masses. I usually avoid the youth / teen mass, just because I’m not a fan of contemporary church music, but I would never miss an obligation.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

If it helps get lukewarm parents back to Church, then that’s a good thing.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

If you wouldn’t say any of this to a 10-year-old’s face, why gossip about it online? You have a Missal to see the Word of God if you can’t hear it.

Discussing whether 10-year-olds who are not very good readers should be allowed to read outside of a “Children’s Mass” or school Mass is not gossip. It is a legitimate discussion topic. We are not discussing a specific child and saying, hey, Jason Smith really did a bad job of reading. That would be gossip.

Moreover, my comments have been quite balanced, as I have noted that
a) some children are competent readers and there is no reason they should not read, again with an adult nearby who can do something like adjust the microphone if there is a problem with the child speaking too softly or not speaking into it;

b) however, the fact that some children can do this does not mean that all children can or should be reading at Mass, any more than we invite every adult to read at Mass;

c) there are many ways for children to participate meaningfully in Mass that do not involve reading scripture, and if a child is not able to read well enough then perhaps another way would work better for them.

I’d be happy to say all of this, kindly, to any 10-year-old’s face.
A child who understands that people have different skills and strengths should not be bothered by the fact that reading at Mass may be best limited to those children and adults who are actually good at it.
If he wishes to improve his skills then he can practice, the same way as a kid who wants to make the sports team.

I am not sure why you think the issue of children reading at Mass, especially at a Mass that is not a children’s or school Mass, is off-limits.

 

[phil19034]

The truth is, all CONFIRMED Catholics, regardless of age should have the same opportunities to assist in the Parish.

Age should not matter for anything. The only thing that should matter is if the volunteer can properly fulfill the requirement of the task.

• Lector = can they professionally proclaim the readings without signs of nervousness, without mispronouncing words, can clearly project their voices, etc.
• Altar Server = can sit still without making drawing attention to themselves, can move with deliberate, military precision, can anticipate the needs of the priest, follow the dress code without issue, etc.

etc.

 

[paperwight]

The truth is, all CONFIRMED Catholics, regardless of age should have the same opportunities to assist in the Parish.

Age should not matter for anything. The only thing that should matter is if the volunteer can properly fulfill the requirement of the task.

• Lector = can they professionally proclaim the readings without signs of nervousness, without mispronouncing words, can clearly project their voices, etc.
  /quote]

Exactly. A PP criticised me for saying that the way the children mangled the reading of the Passion on Palm Sunday ‘spoilt the occasion’. Well in my opinion, the readings that day amount to a deep drama, which should be second only to the Good Friday liturgy in terms of being moving and thought-provoking, and yes, they did spoil the occasion. And saying glibly that people should just follow along in their missals isn’t the answer. Not all Catholics have missals, and certainly no non Catholic visitors would have. Do we want to make our services of whatever type accessible and meaningful evangelisation or not?

And to spell it out, it was the Reading of the Passion which was the occasion spoilt. The actual consecration and Holy Communion? No of course not.

 

[Gorgias]

Follow along in your handy-dandy 'lil Missal, soak in the cuteness

Right. Because that’s what “proclamation of the Word” means. What… that’s petty?!?

The core purpose of Mass is the Eucharist.

Erm… no. Think about it: if you don’t receive the Eucharist, have you missed the “core purpose”? Or, if you walk in just so that you only catch the consecration, have you achieved the “core purpose”? Not. So. Much.

Getting one’s undergarments in a wad over how someone reads at Mass is, indeed, petty and missing the larger picture of why we’re there.

Right. We’re there to witness “cute”, right?

Nobody’s going to develop a talent for reading if they don’t get practice

Right. That’s why we recommend that choirs caterwaul on Sunday and not practice outside of Sunday Mass.

The larger picture is “What is God saying?”

Oddly enough, that seems to be the criticism here. Often, when children proclaim, that’s precisely the question that the congregation asks – “what’d they say?”

You have a Missal to see the Word of God if you can’t hear it.

Then, sir, you are the one who has missed the point of “proclamation of the Word” in the context of Liturgy.

The truth is, all CONFIRMED Catholics, regardless of age should have the same opportunities to assist in the Parish.

Nope.

I realize that you’re talking about “age” as a qualifier, but you’ve gone too far. For example, those in a manifest state of mortal sin should not take on roles of ministry at Mass. So, if there’s at least *one criterion" upon which we should determine the opportunity to minister, then we know that it’s reasonable to make determinations. So…

 

[phil19034]

Nope.

I realize that you’re talking about “age” as a qualifier, but you’ve gone too far. For example, those in a manifest state of mortal sin should not take on roles of ministry at Mass. So, if there’s at least *one criterion" upon which we should determine the opportunity to minister, then we know that it’s reasonable to make determinations. So…

Well, OF COURSE people living in the state of manifest mortal sin should not take on roles of ministry in a Parish (let alone Mass)

 

[blackforest]

I am not sure why you think the issue of children reading at Mass, especially at a Mass that is not a children’s or school Mass, is off-limits.

Off limits? I’m calling out some bad arguments, not telling people to stop talking.

I’m not one to get bitter because the Mass isn’t perfect, and I don’t go parish-shopping or Masstime-shopping to avoid bad singers, bad homilies, or children who struggle to pronounce Nebuchadezzar or Mahershalalhashbaz. We’re there for the Eucharist, not a performance.

Then, sir, you are the one who has missed the point of “proclamation of the Word” in the context of Liturgy.

Proclamations can be made in written or spoken format. And I hereby proclaim, in writing, that I’m female.

 

[Hodos]

I think stuff like that is good for the kids. I don’t know that I would incorporate it into every service, but I think it is good to get the kids involved and knowledgeable of the Divine Service. My brother will sometimes bring them up to do things like explain what he is doing for parts of the service. Seems to really keep them engaged.

 

[Gorgias]

Well, OF COURSE people living in the state of manifest mortal sin should not take on roles of ministry in a Parish (let alone Mass)

Perfect. Therefore, you agree that there are reasonable standards for whom should minister and whom should not. So… your assertion that “all CONFIRMED Catholics, regardless of age should have the same opportunities to assist in the Parish” is wrong, by your very own words. Good that we can agree on that.

Proclamations can be made in written or spoken format.

And ‘proclamation’, in the context of Catholic liturgy, is expressly spoken.

blackforest:

And I hereby proclaim, in writing, that I’m female.

See what I mean? Poor proclamation is a bad thing.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t go parish-shopping or Masstime-shopping to avoid bad singers, bad homilies, or children who struggle to pronounce Nebuchadezzar or Mahershalalhashbaz. We’re there for the Eucharist, not a performance.

While my “Masstime-shopping” is more about finding a church that works with my time schedule and location, and sometimes about seeing a new church or finding one offering something that I am looking for on a particular Sunday (such as candle blessings, celebration of a particular saint’s day, Sunday confessions, etc) than about avoiding things I don’t like, the fact that you yourself don’t visit different churches for Mass for whatever reason is neither here nor there. We’ve established that you yourself like the idea of children reading. Somebody else is allowed to not like it.

Nor is it a “bad argument” that the other guy who posted - not me, but the other guy - would go to a different church to avoid children reading. He’s stating his preference, which he acts on, and that’s his prerogative. It does not somehow make you more correct that him because you don’t care about the thing that is a big deal to him. I think it is better if someone who doesn’t like a particular Mass practice just goes to another Mass if one is available, than if they continue to go to the Mass they don’t like and complain about it. Someone else might be coming to the children’s Mass from another parish, specifically because they like to see children participating at Mass. That also is fine.

 

[englands123]

I think stuff like that is good for the kids. I don’t know that I would incorporate it into every service, but I think it is good to get the kids involved and knowledgeable of the Divine Service. My brother will sometimes bring them up to do things like explain what he is doing for parts of the service. Seems to really keep them engaged.

That’s beautiful.