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Holly3278
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Hi everyone. A friend of mine justifies abortion and homosexual marriage by saying that our moral code should not be forced upon other people. How do I counter this? 
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aggiecatholic05
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how about the fact that all our laws are like that. murder is illegal as are rape and drunk driving based on the idea of morality being imposed on others.
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Holly3278
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Good point.
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PaulinVA
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Holly, itās really funny. If I arrive at my decision on what to vote in favor of or what to support through my physical urges or my desire for there to be no rules, Iām a great open-minded guy.
If I arrive at my decision of who to vote for or what to support by some moral code, Iām an intolerant raving homophobic hate filled idiot.
When you get to vote on things, one of the great things is that you can arrive at your position any way you want. You can study and pray, you can read and think, you can listen to the painting of old Aunt Ester in the foyer. Anything you want.
But make no mistake - someone is going to force their moral code on others. Why should others force THEIR moral code on US?
If I arrive at my decision of who to vote for or what to support by some moral code, Iām an intolerant raving homophobic hate filled idiot.
When you get to vote on things, one of the great things is that you can arrive at your position any way you want. You can study and pray, you can read and think, you can listen to the painting of old Aunt Ester in the foyer. Anything you want.
But make no mistake - someone is going to force their moral code on others. Why should others force THEIR moral code on US?
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Holly3278
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sanctamaria17
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Abortion is wrong because it takes a human life, which surpasses any āmoral codeā.
Homosexual marriage though: It shouldnāt be allowed in the Church, but Iāll have to agree that secular government has no business dictating what makes a marriage and what doesnāt. Letās just have government out of marriage altogether. Seriously, we allow divorce, remarriage after divorce (without an annulment) and premarital sex. If both parties are consenting adults, I donāt think the government should do anything to āprevent them from sinning.ā
Homosexual marriage though: It shouldnāt be allowed in the Church, but Iāll have to agree that secular government has no business dictating what makes a marriage and what doesnāt. Letās just have government out of marriage altogether. Seriously, we allow divorce, remarriage after divorce (without an annulment) and premarital sex. If both parties are consenting adults, I donāt think the government should do anything to āprevent them from sinning.ā
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redrosetea
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But theirs should be forced on us? It makes as much sense to me as people that say if you are not in favor of slavery donāt have oneā¦Murder is a criminal actā¦and as far as homosexual marriage how can 2 people of the same sex be a man and a wife?
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Holly3278
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I agree with you.
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sanctamaria17
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In their eyes, they are just spouses. And a human life isnāt being maltreated, as in the case of slavery. Do two people having premarital sex (another mortal sin but perfectly legal) have any impact on you? So why do two people of the same sex committing to each other have any impact on your choices and religious views? You donāt have to accept it if you donāt want to. Just let them make their own decisions and take whatever consequences.
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Holly3278
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Yes, but as the Catholic Church teaches, marriage is the foundation of society. If you pervert marriage, you pervert society. If you destroy marriage, you destroy society. Thatās not to say that marriage isnāt already in a huge mess what with no fault divorces, unrestricted remarriages and such.
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sanctamaria17
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Iāll admit, I think abortion is much worse on our society than two people committing for life. A lot of things that go against Church teaching were thought to destroy society as well. Yet we still manage to survive. I still think weāre shooting ourselves in the foot by trying to get the government to order the sex lives of consenting adults. Like I said, let them use their free will and reap whatever consequences.
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Holly3278
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I also believe that abortion is worse for society than gay marriage. However, gay marriage is still very bad for our society.
Have you noticed how morality has declined so significantly since the āsexual revolutionā of the 50s and 60s? Have you noticed just how bad much of the west coast is now? Gay pride parades everywhere, prostitution everywhere, gambling everywhere, and the list goes on and on. When sin is promoted, society begins to crumble.
I donāt have any statistics at the moment but I can try to find some if you wish.
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aggiecatholic05
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i disagree. if the government sanctions it i have to accept it, and if i am an employer i can be recquired by law to condone it and treat it as a ārealā marriage. if health benifits are offered to employee spouses i couldnt not give them benifits without being sued even though i know they arent married.
that is why we vote. i do not believe in gay marriage any more than i believe in the tooth fairy, and i will not endorse or condone it. the first step to keeping that right is the ballot.
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redrosetea
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A human life isnāt being maltreated??? DO you know what that poor child endures as it is ripped to shreds!!! Unbelievable!!!
Two unmarried people having sex isnāt a matter of the law of the landā¦two unmarried gays can have sex and it is no differntā¦this is the thin end of the wedge and innocent children will be pulled into their circle by adoptionā¦they canāt reproduce so they recruitā¦the poor children will again be a victimā¦pedastry is a big chance of happening
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sanctamaria17
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I AM NOT CONDONING ABORTION!!! I was saying that in reference to homosexual marriage!!! NOT ABORTION!
If you read my posts, you will KNOW where I stand on abortion. Itās killing a baby and is a human rights violation.
As homosexual marriage, premarital sex, and other sexual sins (confined to consenting adults) apply to consenting adults in the privacy of their own home, I donāt believe that the government has a right to tell them that they canāt have a legal commitment to each other as it is a SECULAR, NOT religious government.
AND pedophilia is NOT a direct result of homosexuality. MANY, MANY, MANY people in the queer community will tell you that child abuse/sexual assault of any kind is something they fight AGAINST!
The government isnāt supposed to enforce societal mores. The way the Founding Fathers set it up was to keep us safe and free. The US is not and never will be a Christian nation. Why are we forcing non-Christians to accept Christian law? Itās not only Christians who are against killing, etc so thatās a moot point.
If you read my posts, you will KNOW where I stand on abortion. Itās killing a baby and is a human rights violation.
As homosexual marriage, premarital sex, and other sexual sins (confined to consenting adults) apply to consenting adults in the privacy of their own home, I donāt believe that the government has a right to tell them that they canāt have a legal commitment to each other as it is a SECULAR, NOT religious government.
AND pedophilia is NOT a direct result of homosexuality. MANY, MANY, MANY people in the queer community will tell you that child abuse/sexual assault of any kind is something they fight AGAINST!
The government isnāt supposed to enforce societal mores. The way the Founding Fathers set it up was to keep us safe and free. The US is not and never will be a Christian nation. Why are we forcing non-Christians to accept Christian law? Itās not only Christians who are against killing, etc so thatās a moot point.
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Maxply
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Regardless of the specific policies and issues discussed, the way to treat this one is to say that there is simply an undeniable connection between morality and law.
In fact, it would be BAD if there was no such connection. In this instance, Might makes Right; whoever controls the political power of the state dictates law to everyone else, without regard for individual conscience, etc.
The wall you run up against with this kind of stuff is that it is all hit-and-run style argumentation; catch phrases. People who toss out statements such as the one youāre dealing with usually donāt want to have a discussion. . . they just want to toss out a catch phrase to throw a stopper into the discussion.
In fact, it would be BAD if there was no such connection. In this instance, Might makes Right; whoever controls the political power of the state dictates law to everyone else, without regard for individual conscience, etc.
The wall you run up against with this kind of stuff is that it is all hit-and-run style argumentation; catch phrases. People who toss out statements such as the one youāre dealing with usually donāt want to have a discussion. . . they just want to toss out a catch phrase to throw a stopper into the discussion.
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Holly3278
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Very good points but I donāt understand how you come to the conclusion that pederasty has a big chance of happening in these circumstances. I agree that a child should not be raised by a same sex couple but homosexuals are not all pedophiles.
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Holly3278
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Good points!
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redrosetea
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How do you know who is and who isnāt a pedaphile. I am not willing to put a child in that postiionā¦It is far more wide spread than you think google nambla
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Holly3278
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I agree fully with you. I was only saying that we should not label all homosexuals as pedophiles. In fact, Iād venture to say that most homosexuals are not pedophiles. Of course, I do not know that for sure. But I do agree with you, we should not risk putting a child in a homosexualās home. A child needs a mother and a father to be raised normally.
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