Our new priest makes everyone stand till after Communion is done

[Brendan]

When the new GRIM came out, Cardinal George, then Chairman of the USCCB, asked Rome on behalf of the US Bishops, if it was the intent of the GIRM to forbid people from kneeling or sitting after they returned to their seats following Communion

Here is the response

“Numerous inquiries” received by the BCL led Cardinal Francis George , chairman of the BCL, to submit a dubium (doubt, question) to the Holy See’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) on May 26, 2003:

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the CDW, responded to the question on June 5, 2003 (Prot. N. 855/03/L):

Responsum: Negative, et ad mensum [No, for this reason]. The mens [reasoning] is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

adoremus.org/Kneeling-CDW-response03.html

Since this would be an authentic interpretation of law by the appropriate authority, it has the force of Law per Canon 16-2

 

[Brendan]

I think that the previous archbishop in your area instituted the practice of standing and some priests have continued it. It really isn’t practical for everyone to stand for so long - some seniors or disabled people just can’t do it.

The specification of standing from the Sanctus up to the reception of Holy Communion. is certainly a right of the local bishop. But per the above, that does not apply when a person returns to their seat.

 

[bitterhope]

To the bolded: in other words, it had nothing at all to do with unity. It was, in fact, creating disunity and was just a way of the priest trying to be unique and put his personal stamp on the Mass. Unity in the Mass is not with the person next to you, it is with the whole Church.

I was in a parish once where no one knelt for the Consecration. I did anyway. Most of the visitors knelt anyway. More people started kneeling. Eventually everyone (who was able) knelt except one man.

What is he going to do? Send an usher to drag you to your feet? Publically scolding only makes him look petty.

Yep it was weird. We never stay anywhere too long so it wasn’t a battle worth fighting. I don’t know if it still happens there or not. I think they’ve had a few other priests since then. It was so confusing for my kids when we moved and the parish was more traditional. It took quite a while for them to get used to Mass again. Looking back I wish that we had switched parishes like many parishioners did.

 

[bitterhope]

When the new GRIM came out, Cardinal George, then Chairman of the USCCB, asked Rome on behalf of the US Bishops, if it was the intent of the GIRM to forbid people from kneeling or sitting after they returned to their seats following Communion

Here is the response

“Numerous inquiries” received by the BCL led Cardinal Francis George , chairman of the BCL, to submit a dubium (doubt, question) to the Holy See’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) on May 26, 2003:

adoremus.org/Kneeling-CDW-response03.html

Since this would be an authentic interpretation of law by the appropriate authority, it has the force of Law per Canon 16-2

That is interesting. Thanks for posting

 

[frangiuliano115]

Sounds a lot like the parish priest of the nearest church arround me. Only that he chatizes everyone in the first words he says on mass, and normaly he even does that to people who don’t even belong to his parish.

Here in Portugal, people kneel, very rarely, they sit. Although some more modern parishes have been implementing the standing model, against what is written in the GIRM.

Wow. Hope Pope Francis doesn’t find out about your parish priest!

Have you been hearing what he’s saying over in the states? I don’t think he would be too happy with your priest.

And neither am I.

What is a priest??

God bless

 

[Sunbreak]

Why don’t you contact the archdiocese and confirm their position on this and then ask them who to contact about the situation.

 

[Corki]

Why don’t you contact the archdiocese and confirm their position on this and then ask them who to contact about the situation.

The Archdiocese doesn’t have a “position” on this. It’s already been clarified by the Vatican. The only thing the diocese could say is to whom a complaint is submitted.

IMHO, this is not a hill worth dying over. Just kneel (or sit or stand) after Communion as you wish and as the Vatican has provisioned.

 

[pianistclare]

The Archdiocese doesn’t have a “position” on this. It’s already been clarified by the Vatican. The only thing the diocese could say is to whom a complaint is submitted.

IMHO, this is not a hill worth dying over. Just kneel (or sit or stand) after Communion as you wish and as the Vatican has provisioned.

yup.
Also, IMHO, running to or calling the Diocese or Archdiocese every time something happens at the parish level is really not productive, nor appreciated.
Have worked for the Church for eons, never once have I seen it to turn out well for the person who complained. They simply tell the pastor you complained about him, and then it goes sour from there.
Just sayin’

 

[Brendan]

yup.
Also, IMHO, running to or calling the Diocese or Archdiocese every time something happens at the parish level is really not productive, nor appreciated.
Have worked for the Church for eons, never once have I seen it to turn out well for the person who complained. They simply tell the pastor you complained about him, and then it goes sour from there.
Just sayin’

Exactly, the person should simply kneel after communion if they so wish.

No need to talk to anyone about it, nor for anyone to talk to them about it.

 

[frangiuliano115]

The Archdiocese doesn’t have a “position” on this. It’s already been clarified by the Vatican. The only thing the diocese could say is to whom a complaint is submitted.

IMHO, this is not a hill worth dying over. Just kneel (or sit or stand) after Communion as you wish and as the Vatican has provisioned.

You know why it’s a hill worth dying over?

A lot of people have left the church for one reason or another. I worked for the church too until last year. Every time the priest makes a change that has to do with the spirituality of the church people get upset and I see this as being very negative.

How about the tabernacle being moved? I walk into a church and have to look around to see where it is. People walk in front of it in my church and don’t even acknowledge it. I needed extra time with my last communion class because they couldn’t understand that they had to bow to the tabernacle first and then bow to the alter too.

We have so many problems, don’t we? Why create more?

Went to a meeting for insturctors last Tuesday. Other changes coming. For here, at least. I’m not in the states. I actually agree with these changes; but boy, the fireworks are coming.

So I just think we should pick our battles. I think the priest in this case is being unreasonable. I don’t think anyone should be reprimanded just before Mass. I don’t think it matters all that much to Jesus if we kneel - or even stand, for that matter. So why should the priest make such an issue of it?

I aksed up there what a priest is. No answers. So, is he a functionary? Is he a mediator? Is he a pastor?

I go with the last.

Fran

 

[UpUpAndAway]

How is he even able to see who is kneeling unless they are in the front pews?

Sorry, but I would be kneeling. Maybe not in the front pew…

Chastise away.,

I’m with Irishmom on this. If Father spends so much time scrutinizing the faithful in attendance, it’s hard to see how he could be concentrating on celebrating the Mass. :ehh:

I’d be kneeling in the front pew, but I’m obnoxious like that. Unfortunately. Luckily for me, our pastor doesn’t discourage us from kneeling. Like Clare’s pastor, however, he won’t make a formal declaration that we should.

Exactly, the person should simply kneel after communion if they so wish.

No need to talk to anyone about it, nor for anyone to talk to them about it.

 

[pianistclare]

You know why it’s a hill worth dying over?

A lot of people have left the church for one reason or another. I worked for the church too until last year. Every time the priest makes a change that has to do with the spirituality of the church people get upset and I see this as being very negative.

How about the tabernacle being moved? I walk into a church and have to look around to see where it is. People walk in front of it in my church and don’t even acknowledge it. I needed extra time with my last communion class because they couldn’t understand that they had to bow to the tabernacle first and then bow to the alter too.

We have so many problems, don’t we? Why create more?

Went to a meeting for insturctors last Tuesday. Other changes coming. For here, at least. I’m not in the states. I actually agree with these changes; but boy, the fireworks are coming.

So I just think we should pick our battles. I think the priest in this case is being unreasonable. I don’t think anyone should be reprimanded just before Mass. I don’t think it matters all that much to Jesus if we kneel - or even stand, for that matter. So why should the priest make such an issue of it?

I aksed up there what a priest is. No answers. So, is he a functionary? Is he a mediator? Is he a pastor?

I go with the last.

Fran

People should not STAY in the Church because of people. liturgy, personality, or function.
They stay for Christ in the Eucharist.

Everything else is passing. The Mass is eternal.
People can leave if they want. But whatever they are seeking won’t be found elsewhere.
Forgive errors, as Christ forgives us.
But leave the church? No way for me. Not ever. Not for any reason or any person.
No.
Christ already died on that hill for us. He can handle it. Trust HIM.

 

[FrDavid96]

The Archdiocese doesn’t have a “position” on this. It’s already been clarified by the Vatican. The only thing the diocese could say is to whom a complaint is submitted.

Actually, a diocese certainly does (or at least “may”) have a position on this. It is something that is within the competence of the diocesan bishop to decide.

What Rome said is that even though the bishop decides (which is the rule in the U.S. but not necessarily elsewhere), it is not to be implemented in such as way as to compel individuals to follow the prescribed posture.

IMHO, this is not a hill worth dying over. Just kneel (or sit or stand) after Communion as you wish and as the Vatican has provisioned.

Agreed. Except that the Vatican did not say “do as you wish.” The Vatican upheld the authority of the local bishop to make this decision, while qualifying that it cannot be imposed too rigidly.

In my situation, I explain to the congregation that the bishop has decided on the posture of standing after Communion. I did that a few years ago (when the corrections to the Roman Missal were made). Said it once. Message received. Done.

If that priest (whom the OP mentioned) is taking things too far in enforcing this, then a polite communication to the bishop might (I say “might” because it also “might not”) be in order. This would certainly apply if the priest is saying something contrary to what the bishop has decided; which is something I’m not in a position to know.

 

[frangiuliano115]

People should not STAY in the Church because of people. liturgy, personality, or function.
They stay for Christ in the Eucharist.

Everything else is passing. The Mass is eternal.
People can leave if they want. But whatever they are seeking won’t be found elsewhere.
Forgive errors, as Christ forgives us.
But leave the church? No way for me. Not ever. Not for any reason or any person.
No.
Christ already died on that hill for us. He can handle it. Trust HIM.

I’m sorry Pianistclare. I don’t understand your reply.

Are you saying whoever wants to should leave church?

This is one way of thinking of it.

The other way is that if people are in church, they are at least hearing the word of God and a homily. They could even be unbelievers (which I encounter), but you never know, the word of God does not return void any maybe, someday, they will come to believe.

Are we going to just be a small remnant like the Israeilites back in Babylonian and Assyrian captivity times hundreds of years before Christ was born? I’m hoping not.

Sorry if I misunderstood you!

Fran

 

[Irishmom2]

I’m sorry Pianistclare. I don’t understand your reply.

Are you saying whoever wants to should leave church?

This is one way of thinking of it.

The other way is that if people are in church, they are at least hearing the word of God and a homily. They could even be unbelievers (which I encounter), but you never know, the word of God does not return void any maybe, someday, they will come to believe.

Are we going to just be a small remnant like the Israeilites back in Babylonian and Assyrian captivity times hundreds of years before Christ was born? I’m hoping not.

Sorry if I misunderstood you!

Fran

Hello Fran, I don’t think that’s what she means. I think she is saying that people are putting other things ahead of what people should really be there for, CHRIST. Whether we sit or stand or kneel or we like the priest or can’t stand the organist, the reason we are there is Christ.
However, sometimes a different PARISH may be a better fit. I have been known to do that.

 

[frangiuliano115]

Actually, a diocese certainly does (or at least “may”) have a position on this. It is something that is within the competence of the diocesan bishop to decide.

What Rome said is that even though the bishop decides (which is the rule in the U.S. but not necessarily elsewhere), it is not to be implemented in such as way as to compel individuals to follow the prescribed posture.

Agreed. Except that the Vatican did not say “do as you wish.” The Vatican upheld the authority of the local bishop to make this decision, while qualifying that it cannot be imposed too rigidly.

In my situation, I explain to the congregation that the bishop has decided on the posture of standing after Communion. **** I did that a few years ago (when the corrections to the Roman Missal were made). Said it once. Message received. Done.

---

If that priest (whom the OP mentioned) is taking things too far in enforcing this, then a polite communication to the bishop might (I say “might” because it also “might not”) be in order. This would certainly apply if the priest is saying something contrary to what the bishop has decided; which is something I’m not in a position to know.

I live in Italy and have never heard of this. I doubt any of the priests I know would even announce this - let alone make an issue of it or try to reinforce it. As I said, we’re having enough problems on this side of the pond and maybe over in the states too.

Let’s concentrate on the spirituality of our walk with Jesus!

Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

Hello Fran, I don’t think that’s what she means. I think she is saying that people are putting other things ahead of what people should really be there for, CHRIST. Whether we sit or stand or kneel or we like the priest or can’t stand the organist, the reason we are there is Christ.
However, sometimes a different PARISH may be a better fit. I have been known to do that.

Ah ha! Okay. I agree of course.

Which is why the priest shouldn’t make an issue of it! And it may be easier to just change - as you have done. ; ) Agree again.

God bless you
Fran

 

[pianistclare]

I’m sorry Pianistclare. I don’t understand your reply.

Are you saying whoever wants to should leave church?

This is one way of thinking of it.

The other way is that if people are in church, they are at least hearing the word of God and a homily. They could even be unbelievers (which I encounter), but you never know, the word of God does not return void any maybe, someday, they will come to believe.

Are we going to just be a small remnant like the Israeilites back in Babylonian and Assyrian captivity times hundreds of years before Christ was born? I’m hoping not.

Sorry if I misunderstood you!

Fran

I’m saying that leaving the church because of bad liturgy is a lousy reason to leave.
People who leave the church use this as an excuse.
None of those things are good reasons to leave. God will handle those who show extreme disrespect for the Mass. None of us should think our personal preferences should dictate how things go. The Church is pretty clear. If a parish ignore rubrics…then find a parish that has better liturgy. There are people in the world who would like to have Mass, but don’t.
We’re blessed, all things considered. Yet we still complain. Why?
The blessing is in the Sacramental graces we receive. Not in whether the person next to us is dressed inappropriately, or any of the many other complaints that people have.

And yes, if people are bent on walking away from the truth…well, they were not catechized well enough. That’s something that they need to seek out and correct for themselves. You and I can’t fix that, unless they acknowledge that they might be misinformed, or misguided. The hardest thing to do is to change the mind of a person who thinks they already have all the answers.
Peace.

 

[FrDavid96]

I live in Italy and have never heard of this. I doubt any of the priests I know would even announce this - let alone make an issue of it or try to reinforce it. As I said, we’re having enough problems on this side of the pond and maybe over in the states too.

Let’s concentrate on the spirituality of our walk with Jesus!

Fran

I’m not sure how much you know about our recent history.

A few years ago, we received a new translation of the Roman Missal which corrected many errors in translation which were made in the early 1970s.

It was necessary (indeed, unavoidable) for every Catholic of the Roman Rite to become familiar with the corrected versions and therefore necessary for every parish to have some form of teaching about the Mass during that transition period (even if it was the bare minimum).

In that context, I took advantage of the opportunity to teach about the Mass (a theme that was quite prevalent at the time everywhere in the U.S.). As part of that, I spoke about the postures at Mass.

As I wrote earlier: I said it once. That was all that was necessary and appropriate. One time. Done.

 

[ProVobis]

Well I don’t know. I mean in a way that’s a bit hard for those who’d like to kneel right then. And I mean it’s probably also hard on those who don’t go to communion at all (like me).

Yes, the big deal about what postures to take during and after communion can be confusing to those who feel indisposed to receive communion in the first place. Good point.