Our new priest makes everyone stand till after Communion is done

[JM3]

Standing is the default posture during Communion but the GIRM is clear that one can sit or kneel after returning from Communion.
GIRM 43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant, or while the Priest approaches the altar, until the end of the Collect; for the Alleluia Chant before the Gospel; while the Gospel itself is proclaimed; during the Profession of Faith and the Universal Prayer; and from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below.

The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, they may sit or kneel during the period of sacred silence after Communion.

In the Dioceses of the United States of America, they should kneel beginning after the singing or recitation of the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion by ill health, or for reasons of lack of space, of the large number of people present, or for another reasonable cause. However, those who do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the Priest genuflects after the Consecration. The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.[53]

For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal.

"For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal."

 

[ProVobis]

“For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal.”

So don’t the custom laws of the Canon Code mean anything?

TITLE II: CUSTOM (Cann. 23 - 28)

Can. 23 A custom introduced by a community of the faithful has the force of law only if it has been approved by the legislator, in accordance with the following canons.

Can. 24 §1 No custom which is contrary to divine law can acquire the force of law.

§2 A custom which is contrary to or apart from canon law, cannot acquire the force of law unless it is reasonable; a custom which is expressly reprobated in the law is not reasonable.

Can. 25 No custom acquires the force of law unless it has been observed, with the intention of introducing a law, by a community capable at least of receiving a law.

Can. 26 Unless it has been specifically approved by the competent legislator, a custom which is contrary to the canon law currently in force, or is apart from the canon law, acquires the force of law only when it has been lawfully observed for a period of thirty continuous and complete years. Only a centennial or immemorial custom can prevail over a canonical law which carries a clause forbidding future customs.

Can. 27 Custom is the best interpreter of laws.

Can. 28 Without prejudice to the provisions of can. 5, a custom, whether contrary to or apart from the law, is revoked by a contrary custom or law. But unless the law makes express mention of them, it does not revoke centennial or immemorial customs, nor does a universal law revoke particular customs.

 

[Teabag]

Sorry but i would just Kneel. He has no right to insist that people stand.

 

[FrDavid96]

"For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to what is laid down in the Missal."

Exactly

The last part there is essential “according to what is laid down in the Missal.” Not according to the personal preferences of the priest, but according to the Missal. After the Agnus Dei, the faithful kneel, unless the diocesan bishop has determined otherwise.

If (and I am only saying “if”) the priest is giving directions contrary to what is in the Roman Missal (in this particular thread, contrary to kneeling unless the diocesan bishop has determined otherwise) then the priest is himself violating the Roman Missal.

I don’t know the policy that the local bishop has established for that particular diocese. So understand that when I say “if” I truly do mean “if.” The same also applies if he indeed is conforming to what the bishop has determined.

 

[Lormar]

I’m saying that leaving the church because of bad liturgy is a lousy reason to leave.
People who leave the church use this as an excuse.
None of those things are good reasons to leave. God will handle those who show extreme disrespect for the Mass. None of us should think our personal preferences should dictate how things go. The Church is pretty clear. If a parish ignore rubrics…then find a parish that has better liturgy. There are people in the world who would like to have Mass, but don’t.
We’re blessed, all things considered. Yet we still complain. Why?
The blessing is in the Sacramental graces we receive. Not in whether the person next to us is dressed inappropriately, or any of the many other complaints that people have.

And yes, if people are bent on walking away from the truth…well, they were not catechized well enough. That’s something that they need to seek out and correct for themselves. You and I can’t fix that, unless they acknowledge that they might be misinformed, or misguided.** The hardest thing to do is to change the mind of a person who thinks they already have all the answers. **
Peace.

How true.

 

[ProVobis]

yup.
Also, IMHO, running to or calling the Diocese or Archdiocese every time something happens at the parish level is really not productive, nor appreciated.
Have worked for the Church for eons, never once have I seen it to turn out well for the person who complained. They simply tell the pastor you complained about him, and then it goes sour from there.
Just sayin’

In my neck of the woods, people just shop around for another parish, even if they have to skip to another diocese. But then there are enough parishes to be able to do that.

 

[pianistclare]

In my neck of the woods, people just shop around for another parish, even if they have to skip to another diocese. But then there are enough parishes to be able to do that.

here’s the thing:
We’re the ONLY parish that does it. We received a letter from the Chancery that said it was “coming” as a norm, but NOT ONE parish of the more than 80 implemented it except for us. I’ve heard visitors say that they’d like to attend at our Parish, but that we’re just “too weird” because they’ve never seen it anywhere else.

Sorry. I’ll shut up now.

 

[frangiuliano115]

I’m not sure how much you know about our recent history.

A few years ago, we received a new translation of the Roman Missal which corrected many errors in translation which were made in the early 1970s.

It was necessary (indeed, unavoidable) for every Catholic of the Roman Rite to become familiar with the corrected versions and therefore necessary for every parish to have some form of teaching about the Mass during that transition period (even if it was the bare minimum).

In that context, I took advantage of the opportunity to teach about the Mass (a theme that was quite prevalent at the time everywhere in the U.S.). As part of that, I spoke about the postures at Mass.

As I wrote earlier: I said it once. That was all that was necessary and appropriate. One time. Done.

Being here, I have to say that I’m impressed that you took the time to teach about the Mass. I know very little about it, having taught it only to 12/13 year olds at catechism.

Why am I impressed? I live in a valley with little towns all around me. Each one used to have a priest. Now priests are required to pastor 3 to 8! parishes. It’s impossible, as you can imagine. I say pastor because to me that’s what a priest is. He’s also those other things I said, a functionary - Mass, funerals, weddings, etc. - a mediator, no explanation needed, but most of all to me they’re pastors and you can’t pastor more than one parish.

It’s only going to get worse. Pianistclare says that people are poorly catechized and that it’s something they should seek out. Unfortunately, there’s no interest even when it’s offered. I have a small bible study with the priests okay and there are 6 of us. Pretty sad. Don’t know what the solution is. That’s why I’m on this forum - just like to talk about “religion”.

Well, I hardly think you care to hear about our problems here. Just to say that insisting one must stand after communion sounds like a pretty petty problem to me. We’d be happy to have the churches full, standing or kneeling! (I prefer kneeling).

God will provide
Fran

Maybe we’ll become like the protestants and only true believers will remain? We’ll see.

 

[HolySpirit08]

When I return from Communion, I am in a personal relationship with Jesus. I totally disagree with this practice. We are supportive of each other throughout the mass but Communion and between Jesus and me for a few minutes.

 

[frangiuliano115]

When I return from Communion, I am in a personal relationship with Jesus. I totally disagree with this practice. We are supportive of each other throughout the mass but Communion and between Jesus and me for a few minutes.

Perfectly put!

 

[John_Lilburne]

From the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM):

“42. … A common bodily posture, to be observed by all those taking part, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy, for it expresses the intentions and spiritual attitude of the participants and also fosters them.”
Some are standing in the Communion Procession, so everyone should be standing.

“43. … The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, during the period of sacred silence after Communion.”
So “after Communion” is not during Communion. It is not a period of “sacred silence” when there is the singing of the Communion hymn, or when the minister is saying “The Body of Christ” and those receiving Communion are saying “Amen”.

“43. … For the sake of uniformity in gestures and bodily postures during one and the same celebration, the faithful should follow the instructions which the Deacon, a lay minister, or the Priest gives, according to whatever is laid down in the Missal.”

Other threads on this topic include:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=776200
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=100878
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=480114

 

[zab]

I live in one of those diocese where we are supposed to remain standing after the Agnus Dei and after coming back from Communion. Our parish has never remained standing when coming back from Communion. I think this was largely due to the misunderstanding of a response coming from the Sacred Congregation of Divine Worship which seemed to allow more of a choice of posture when coming back from Communion when actually it upheld the bishop’s authority to set the posture. Our pastor and previous pastor have never corrected us on that. That doesn’t mean that what we are doing is proper. I would not be upset with the pastor if he is simply trying to get the parish as a whole to follow the correct posture. Of course there are always exceptions. I am in an awkward position because it would be difficult for me as well as some others to remain standing for that length of time especially on a Sunday when the church is full. If I were in the same situation as the OP, I would tell the pastor that I understand that the correct posture is to remain standing but I would explain to him my situation and assure him him that it is not out of protest or disobedience that I may need to sit or kneel after coming back from Communion.

 

[Brendan]

“43. … The faithful should sit, on the other hand, during the readings before the Gospel and the Responsorial Psalm and for the Homily and during the Preparation of the Gifts at the Offertory; and, if appropriate, during the period of sacred silence after Communion.”
So “after Communion” is not during Communion. It is not a period of “sacred silence” when there is the singing of the Communion hymn, or when the minister is saying “The Body of Christ” and those receiving Communion are saying “Amen”.

As a note, the CDWDS already issued a responsum on this specific issue, to a dubium that Cardinal George issued on behalf of the US Bishops.

It was discussed earlier in the thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13306665&postcount=21

 

[Corki]

I live in one of those diocese where we are supposed to remain standing after the Agnus Dei and after coming back from Communion. Our parish has never remained standing when coming back from Communion. ** I think this was largely due to the misunderstanding of a response coming from the Sacred Congregation of Divine Worship which seemed to allow more of a choice of posture when coming back from Communion **when actually it upheld the bishop’s authority to set the posture. Our pastor and previous pastor have never corrected us on that. That doesn’t mean that what we are doing is proper. I would not be upset with the pastor if he is simply trying to get the parish as a whole to follow the correct posture. Of course there are always exceptions. I am in an awkward position because it would be difficult for me as well as some others to remain standing for that length of time especially on a Sunday when the church is full. If I were in the same situation as the OP, I would tell the pastor that I understand that the correct posture is to remain standing but I would explain to him my situation and assure him him that it is not out of protest or disobedience that I may need to sit or kneel after coming back from Communion.

It wasn’t a misunderstanding. The posture when coming back from Communion is entirely up to the Communicant (kneeling, standing or sitting). There is no “correct posture” at that time.

 

[kozlosap]

Standing after Communion seems to be the norm here in Los Angeles, at least at all of the parishes around me. Our previous archbishop pushed for this, and it caught on. But old or disabled people frequently sit, and lots of people still kneel, and no one makes an issue out of it. For the most part, everyone does sit for a few moments when the priest does after the Blessed Sacrament is back in the tabernacle, but what we do immediately after Communion seems to be left to our personal preference now.

I from Northern California. A few weeks ago while visiting my Dear Daughter in the Brentwood area of LA I attended a vigil mass at St. Paul the Apostle near UCLA. At my huge Jesuit parish, we always have kneeled, but in LA, they stood and a few of us kneeled. There were many elderly people in attendance, and they mostly sat instead of standing. BTW, St. Paul the Apostle Parish is awesome and I plan on attending mass there again when I’m in LALA Land.:

 

[FrDavid96]

It wasn’t a misunderstanding. The posture when coming back from Communion is entirely up to the Communicant (kneeling, standing or sitting). There is no “correct posture” at that time.

That’s simply not true.

The correct posture is the one determined by the diocesan bishop.

Read what Card. Arinze wrote:
Responsum: Negative, et ad mensum [No, for this reason]. The mens [reasoning] is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

“Uniformity of posture” does not mean “entirely up to the Communicant” as you’ve just asserted. It means exactly what he wrote “uniformity.” This is with the understanding that it is not to be regulated too rigidly. There is a difference.

 

[FrDavid96]

As a note, the CDWDS already issued a responsum on this specific issue, to a dubium that Cardinal George issued on behalf of the US Bishops.

It was discussed earlier in the thread

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13306665&postcount=21

I fear that no matter how many times you post it, people just won’t read it.

 

[JimG]

I fear that no matter how many times you post it, people just won’t read it.

Or maybe they did read it. I read the dubium and reply. Paradoxically, it still seems to leave room for doubt. The question posed was whether it was the intention of the Roman Missal to forbid the practice of kneeling or sitting after communion.

The reply said “no” that was not the intention, because while the intention was on the one hand to ensure uniformity of posture within broad limits, on the other hand, it should not be done so rigidly that persons would no longer be free to kneel or sit if they wish to do so.

In a previous post, you summarized it this way: “What Rome said is that even though the bishop decides (which is the rule in the U.S. but not necessarily elsewhere), it is not to be implemented in such as way as to compel individuals to follow the prescribed posture.”

So it would seem that any given individual is free to kneel or sit.

 

[pianistclare]

Or maybe they did read it. I read the dubium and reply. Paradoxically, it still seems to leave room for doubt. The question posed was whether it was the intention of the Roman Missal to forbid the practice of kneeling or sitting after communion.

The reply said “no” that was not the intention, because while the intention was on the one hand to ensure uniformity of posture within broad limits, on the other hand, it should not be done so rigidly that persons would no longer be free to kneel or sit if they wish to do so.

In a previous post, you summarized it this way: “What Rome said is that even though the bishop decides (which is the rule in the U.S. but not necessarily elsewhere), it is not to be implemented in such as way as to compel individuals to follow the prescribed posture.”

So it would seem that any given individual is free to kneel or sit.

Yeah, that’s the way my pastor reads it. And even though the Archbishop said this is going to be coming…he doesn’t’ even enforce it at the Cathedral or any parish he visits.
Nor the Auxiliary Bishops.
I kneel. Almost no one else does. Immigrants mostly. As I said, we’re the only parish in the that does. In my mind, kneeling is the less “disruptive” of the 2 postures.
But hear what everyone is saying. interesting thread.

 

[bitterhope]

The experience I had at the one parish that mandated everyone stand was chaotic. It turned communion into a smile and wave at everyone you know as you/they walk to and from the pew. No one was reverent, no one was praying, there was no uniformity, just confusion for visitors as they tried (unsuccessfully) to figure the process out. To receive communion you needed to walk around the entire church to get in line and again to get back to your pew. It was impossible to just follow along with everyone else, you really had to know what you were doing. I can’t even really explain–it was just weird. There was no uniformity because no other church in the diocese was doing those things. Just that one. Many long time parishioners left for a different parish and the ones that remained kind of got a big head about the whole thing. They adopted the attitude of being the only ones following the rules correctly so we are better than the other churches. Most visitors were so confused that they just sat or kneeled and looked around uncomfortably and usually skipped communion. I’m glad we moved soon after and no other church in the past 10+/- years since we lived there have I seen it again. You would think that if this was supposed to be a wide spread change that somewhere else I would have run into it again. During the time since we lived there, we have lived in three other states and two other countries. Moving again soon so maybe the next parish will. I hope not because I really don’t miss the circus like atmosphere surrounding communion.