Our Pope is only human, but

[Lea101]

Kissing a ring is not “off”; it is a tradition showing respect for the office. No one can be faulted for that. It’s about the office, not the man, who is merely a holder of the office.

Well, both things can be true at the same time. It’s a tradition that I find off putting to me. It’s merely a personal opinion that you shouldn’t get so worked up after.

It shows what you believe about the divinely-instituted office of Bishop.

Nope, it really doesn’t. But you have the freedom to make uncharitable assumptions about me.

But back to the issue at hand. The Pope was yanked pretty violently. Pope or not, you do not do that to an octogenarian.

I agree.

Slapping the hand was mild . She’s lucky the security team did not tackle her.

I don’t think tackling would be necessary, because it’s obvious that she’s not a threat, but they should have quickly reacted the moment he got yanked.

That is just the problem; it isn’t unique. It is the way kings were treated in the West.

The surviving monarchies of Europe have learned since the World Wars that accepting homage that is more fitting for a deity isn’t the way monarchies are preserved. This leaves the Popes with the problem of how to handle traditions that grew up when the monarchies of Western Europe themselves were seen as governmental bodies instituted by Providence

You worded it better than I could have. There are no monarchies from where I’m from. Actions like that seem off-putting because we at least reserve actions like that to images of Christ, Mary and the saints. Not to living breathing (and flawed) humans.

Even bowing to Queen Elizabeth seems weird to me.

However, I’ve made it clear that it’s off to me, not that the practice itself is unpleasant, so not necessary to start frothing at the mouth, lol!

 

[PetraG]

You worded it better than I could have. There are no monarchies from where I’m from. Actions like that seem off-putting because we at least reserve actions like that to images of Christ, Mary and the saints. Not to living breathing (and flawed) humans.

Even bowing to Queen Elizabeth seems weird to me.

However, I’ve made it clear that it’s off to me, not that the practice itself is unpleasant, so not necessary to start frothing at the mouth, lol!

If the Pope offered me his ring, I’d kiss it. If he doesn’t, I’m not going to grab his hand and try to kiss it, anyway. That is what seems odd to me. It is not as if someone has prostrated themselves and he’s leaving them face-down on the floor. He is withdrawing a privilege. That is his prerogative, and as I posted earlier not out of keeping with the precedent set by St. Peter as recorded in Acts.

 

[MortimusCatholicus]

Spot. On. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Crusader13]

In the video it doesn’t appear she even tried to kiss his ring. She grabs his hand but never once does she break eye contract with Pope Francis, she is clearly trying to tell him something, but I’m not sure what it was.

She did grab his arm as he was beginning to walk the other direction, which contributed to his being forced to turn around. However, I don’t agree that it rose to the level of an aggressive action that could’ve caused injury.

 

[Dorothy]

I saw the same thing. She reached out and pulled his hand and he looked startled and in pain.

 

[porthos11]

porthos11:

It shows what you believe about the divinely-instituted office of Bishop.

Nope, it really doesn’t. But you have the freedom to make uncharitable assumptions about me.

Sorry I used “you” in the general sense. “We” would be the better word in the sense of what I was trying to convey.

 

[JanR]

There was a separate video of him pulling his hand away when visitors tried to kiss his ring. It isn’t the same video that shows him slapping loose the lady’s grip. Those were two separate incidents. Just to be clear …

 

[PetraG]

She did grab his arm as he was beginning to walk the other direction, which contributed to his being forced to turn around. However, I don’t agree that it rose to the level of an aggressive action that could’ve caused injury.

Contributed to his being forced to turn around? What other factor was there?

If I were walking in one direction and someone grabbed me from behind to the point that it turned me around, I’d consider that extremely aggressive. Remember, too, that the Holy Father is 83 years old. I know he is vigorous for his age, but he is still an elderly man. Think of someone you know who is 83 years old. Would you ever dream of grabbing that person by the hand and changing their direction as they were walking away and were not expecting it? No, never, not unless maybe you were saving them from some tripping hazard they didn’t see coming.

The sad part is that he will probably be forced to allow himself to be more closely flanked by his security people, just to protect him better.

 

[Mac]

Wheather it was right or wrong to slap the lady’s hand (I dont think so) or right or wrong to not allow people to kiss the ring.

It’s definatly wrong to make these insignificant things in to a big deal. Or to use these issues to try and discredit the Pope.

If anything is wrong, that is.

 

[twf]

Kissing the ring applies to all bishops, not only the Pope. While I do not normally kiss the ring when meeting bishops, as it is no longer widely practiced in many places, I have done it. It is rooted in the ancient Roman practice of kissing a magistrate’s ring to show respect for the office and for the law.
Here in Vancouver we have a huge population of Filipinos…they are the lifeblood of the local Church. When they greet a priest they bow their head and touch his hand to their forehead. A similar and likewise beautiful custom. The local priests have embraced it out of respect for Filipino culture…whether it’s something they would promote personally or not.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

From what I’ve heard, that lady was a Chinese Catholic pilgrim who wanted to talk to him about the plight of the underground Catholic Church in China. I understand not yanking his arm but he still shouldn’t have slapped her like that. He should have offered to have a private audience with her so she could tell him her concerns.

 

[PetraG]

Where did you hear that? What was the source?

He’s not automatically offering a private audience to anybody who succeeds in grabbing him and won’t let go. (It isn’t as if nobody from China has any way to communicate with the Vatican.)

 

[snavemarc]

Can this be dropped now? The Holy Father has already apologised for this incident. I’ve seen so many people make such a fuss over this. We are all only human, we can never be perfect and things like this will happen occasionally. It’s not the end of the world, the Holy Father has recognised what he has done and has made penance upon it.

 

[JanR]

I agree. Let’s move on.

 

[Randolph]

From what I’ve heard, that lady was a Chinese Catholic pilgrim who wanted to talk to him about the plight of the underground Catholic Church in China. I understand not yanking his arm but he still shouldn’t have slapped her like that. He should have offered to have a private audience with her so she could tell him her concerns.

I would be interested to know more about this incident if this were indeed true. The plight and the persecution of the underground Catholic Church in China are real and quite bad—only made worse by Pope Francis’s agreement with Communist China to allow China to appoint candidates for bishops to be approved later by the Church. China will only appoint candidates who are loyal to China—not the Church. These eventual bishops will do propaganda work for the Communist government. This agreement was spearheaded by the disgraced former cardinal Theodore McCarrick—yet another stain he left for the Church before his laicization. I believe this was a huge mistake made by Pope Francis, and it will hurt the faithful and the Catholic Church in China for many generations to come. China will fully manipulate this agreement to control the Catholic Church in China.

I pray for Pope Francis to change his mind on this matter. And may God have mercy on the Church and on all of us.

 

[poche]

she didn’t just grab him. She knocked him off his balance.

 

[paperwight]

she didn’t just grab him. She knocked him off his balance.

No, not really. That would be pushing him away from her. It was more she was trying to get him to come nearer (or at least, not move away from her before she had a chance to speak to her). It was unfortunate that he changed direction at that moment, hence the slight over balance.

 

[thistle]

No, not really. That would be pushing him away from her. It was more she was trying to get him to come nearer (or at least, not move away from her before she had a chance to speak to her). It was unfortunate that he changed direction at that moment, hence the slight over balance.

She grabbed him and I thought he would fall. I watched the video. She grabbed him.

 

[CatholicSooner]

I think from the expression on his face, and his body language he WAS in pain when she grabbed him and yanked him back to her.

She’s lucky the guards didn’t tackle her.

Deacon Christopher

really? lol

There are many instances like this out there from this Pope. It is VERY odd b/c he will allow person after person to grab his hand or kiss his ring but them randomly pull it away with an anger expression. Very odd

 

[CatholicSooner]

JanR:

There was another incident when he slapped a lady’s hand away after she had grasped it and was holding onto it. He had an exasperated expression on his face as he walked away from her. He later apologized, admitting that he sometimes becomes impatient with people.

This appeared to cause him a lot of pain. Watch the video of it, if you have not already. Look at the expression on the face of the Holy Father. It also likely scared him a little because he had turned to walk away and the woman randomly grabbed his arm /hand and dragged him to her.
No one would tolerate that. Why would our Pope have to tolerate it? It also shows a great lack of piety on her part. She would not let his hand go, he actually had to smack his hand away from her.
I admire the response of his bodyguards in calmly mitigating the situation and not addressing it more forcefully. She may have had a knife, a gun, a weapon, she may have been intending to assault him. They did not know at that point.

maybe there is a different video than the one i’ve seen b/c this is hogwash if we are both thinking of the same incident