Our Protestant Liturgy

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I’ll also add we observe Lent, and the Church calendar, etc. in our church, so it isn’t just in the Liturgy itself that we’re trying to be more historically and catholic rooted. We have the colored paraments, vestments/robes, etc.
 
FranciscanMafia said:
I’ll also add we observe Lent, and the Church calendar, etc. in our church, so it isn’t just in the Liturgy itself that we’re trying to be more historically and catholic rooted. We have the colored paraments, vestments/robes, etc.
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Why? Why are you trying to be “more Catholic rooted?” Why not just become Catholic?
 
agapewolf said:
Why? Why are you trying to be “more Catholic rooted?” Why not just become Catholic?
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One step at a time. As an earlier poster commented, this is how Deacon Alex Jones began his journey to the church. By making his pentacostal service more liturgical in nature and it came to resemble a catholic mass. Before you know it, he was converting and bringing in 50+ members of his congregation. I don’t see the OP’s inquiries as a negative, or trying to be like the catholic mass, but maybe as a first step, and very encouraging.

😃
 
thomasf said:
One step at a time. As an earlier poster commented, this is how Deacon Alex Jones began his journey to the church. By making his pentacostal service more liturgical in nature and it came to resemble a catholic mass. Before you know it, he was converting and bringing in 50+ members of his congregation. I don’t see the OP’s inquiries as a negative, or trying to be like the catholic mass, but maybe as a first step, and very encouraging.

😃
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I didn’t say they were negative statements. It was such an obvious question to ask after the statement:

I’ll also add we observe Lent, and the Church calendar, etc. in our church, so it isn’t just in the Liturgy itself that we’re trying to be more historically and catholic rooted. We have the colored paraments, vestments/robes, etc.

It begged the question…it is simple logic. Why not become Catholic? why just try to imitate?
 
FranciscanMafia said:
Thanks a lot for your help. Is the book just called “Catholic Sacramentary”? What is the difference between that and the Roman Missal I’ve heard of?
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One and the same. The Latin name technically, is “Missale Romanum”. When translated into English it was called the “Sacramentary”.

Though sometimes when people say the “Roman Missal” they could mean the missal in the form it was before the revision of the liturgy. That missal is used in the “Traditional”/“Tridentine”/“Extraordinary Form” Masses.
 
This is a little off-topic, and if you want to discuss it with me privately or in e-mail that’s fine.

For me personally, I’m a Protestant but open to the truths of the East and West Catholic traditions.

However, my biggest hang-ups (off the top of my head) would be: Papacy (even though I really like Benedict, and am reading “Intro. to Christianity” right now, and loved his encyclical Spe Salvi), Marian devotion, Merit and works of supererogation, Transsubstantiation (although I hold to real presence), the Catholic view of Tradition, and veneration of objects/saints, etc.
 
FranciscanMafia said:
Thanks a lot for your help. Is the book just called “Catholic Sacramentary”? What is the difference between that and the Roman Missal I’ve heard of?
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The Roman Missal consists of the Sacramentary and the Lectionary. Both of these are published by Catholic Book Publishing. Here’s a link to their site. catholicbookpublishing.com/BrowseByDepartments.aspx?DepID=12

You will most likely do better other places online, or if you know of any local catholic religious goods or bookstore they would probably have copies in stock.

Does your church use the Common Lectionary? In the 60s and 70s the Catholic Church revised its cycle of readings, both for weekdays, and Sundays and I believe a number of Protestant churches have jumped on board so that at many churches the very same Sunday readings are used.

God Bless you
 
FranciscanMafia said:
This is a little off-topic, and if you want to discuss it with me privately or in e-mail that’s fine.

For me personally, I’m a Protestant but open to the truths of the East and West Catholic traditions.

However, my biggest hang-ups (off the top of my head) would be: Papacy (even though I really like Benedict, and am reading “Intro. to Christianity” right now, and loved his encyclical Spe Salvi), Marian devotion, Merit and works of supererogation, Transsubstantiation (although I hold to real presence), the Catholic view of Tradition, and veneration of objects/saints, etc.
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Its actually not off-topic. Because if the Church has so many things you hang-up on, then why try to imitate its liturgical practices?
 
David_B said:
The Roman Missal consists of the Sacramentary and the Lectionary. Both of these are published by Catholic Book Publishing. Here’s a link to their site. catholicbookpublishing.com/BrowseByDepartments.aspx?DepID=12

You will most likely do better other places online, or if you know of any local catholic religious goods or bookstore they would probably have copies in stock.

Does your church use the Common Lectionary? In the 60s and 70s the Catholic Church revised its cycle of readings, both for weekdays, and Sundays and I believe a number of Protestant churches have jumped on board so that at many churches the very same Sunday readings are used.

God Bless you
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We use the Sunday Lectionary from the Revised Common Lectionary in our service, but one of our readings is always adjusted to the Sermon. For example, our Pastor is preaching through Matthew, so the Gospel reading currently is always from Matthew and the text he’s preaching on that week. The other two readings are the RCL readings, though. In my personal devotion, I read from the RCL daily lectionary or the BCP daily lectionary (which, I think is the same since the '79 BCP).

We have a local Catholic book store that I frequent, I think they have Missals there. How much should I expect to pay?
 
agapewolf said:
Its actually not off-topic. Because if the Church has so many things you hang-up on, then why try to imitate its liturgical practices?
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Because we’re all the Body of Christ, and one in Him, so the effort towards unity should be a big deal for us as Christians. In my opinion, the two places to start are shared Eucharistic fellowship and a common Liturgy/Lectionary. But, I’m an optimistic kind of guy. 😉
 
FranciscanMafia said:
We use the Sunday Lectionary from the Revised Common Lectionary in our service, but one of our readings is always adjusted to the Sermon. For example, our Pastor is preaching through Matthew, so the Gospel reading currently is always from Matthew and the text he’s preaching on that week. The other two readings are the RCL readings, though. In my personal devotion, I read from the RCL daily lectionary or the BCP daily lectionary (which, I think is the same since the '79 BCP).

We have a local Catholic book store that I frequent, I think they have Missals there. How much should I expect to pay?
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Hi Fransican! I was a Presbyterain as well. Which one do belong to? I was PCUSA. 🙂
 
We’re a PCA church, but they don’t like Presbyterians like us in the denomination as a whole… We’re too “Roman” for their tastes. sigh We’re actually just trying to be catholic and historically rooted in the faith, but that’s seen as a negative thing by many today in evangelicalism.
 
FranciscanMafia said:
We’re a PCA church, but they don’t like Presbyterians like us in the denomination as a whole… We’re too “Roman” for their tastes. sigh We’re actually just trying to be catholic and historically rooted in the faith, but that’s seen as a negative thing by many today in evangelicalism.
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Ahh ok, yes PCA. You guys are much more conservative. We allowed women deacons or elders, PCA doesn’t right? I guess that would be more “Catholic” but as far as our service in the PCUSA as a convert, I didn’t feel that out of place in the Mass 🤷 pretty much the same readings. 🙂 Of course the big difference we know! 😉
 
anamchara said:
Ahh ok, yes PCA. You guys are much more conservative. We allowed women deacons or elders, PCA doesn’t right? I guess that would be more “Catholic” but as far as our service in the PCUSA as a convert, I didn’t feel that out of place in the Mass 🤷 pretty much the same readings. 🙂 Of course the big difference we know! 😉
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Right, men are only allowed to be Deacons or Presbyters in the PCA. Liturgical services aren’t very common in the PCA, but there’s one or two in every Presbytery. Liturgical reform seems to be more of a possibility in conservative Reformed circles these days, it is just a matter of getting people “over” their evangelical sympathies and revivalism.
 
FranciscanMafia said:
Do you have any comments or helpful suggestions? I don’t represent the Church in any official capacity, but I hope to be ordained to transitional diaconate someday and eventually become a Minister, so this is all really helpful for me, thinking about my future. Thanks!
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Well I suggest you study patristics…do that and you will surely end up a poper.
 
FranciscanMafia said:
Right, men are only allowed to be Deacons or Presbyters in the PCA. Liturgical services aren’t very common in the PCA, but there’s one or two in every Presbytery. Liturgical reform seems to be more of a possibility in conservative Reformed circles these days, it is just a matter of getting people “over” their evangelical sympathies and revivalism.
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I am confused, it doesn’t take much 😃 what do you mean by “liturgical” services?
 
He could also source the Book of Common Prayer, since its author, Cranmer was theologically pretty close to Calvin in most respects.

Actually, Cranmer was closer to Zwingli. Calvin believed there was some connection between the Body and Blood of Christ and the bread and wine. Cranmer and Zwingly denied this.
 
bpbasilphx said:
He could also source the Book of Common Prayer, since its author, Cranmer was theologically pretty close to Calvin in most respects.

Actually, Cranmer was closer to Zwingli. Calvin believed there was some connection between the Body and Blood of Christ and the bread and wine. Cranmer and Zwingly denied this.
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Right, we believe that you actually feed on the Body and Blood of Christ in our reception of the Eucharist.
 
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