Our Relationship with Christ

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SempirVeritas

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Okay, I heard somewhere that catholics do not beileve in a personal relationship with Christ…

but that we have a relationship with him only on a corporate level as a church vs individual…
SO,

do we have a personal, individual relationship with Christ, within the bounds of His church?
 
YES. I cannot even imagine a more personal relationship with Christ than our receiving Him in the Eucharist. I’m not sure who you are talking with but Catholicism began in Christ and His commands. The sacramental life of the Church is a constant encounter with our Lord. ANY Catholic who says that they do not have a personal relationshop with Christ is NOT a Catholic. The Church is not to be viewed as an opposition to Christ. The Church IS Christ. When we submit ourselves to the teachings of the Church we are no more than following Christ.

This new “me and Jesus” concept is non historical and anti biblical. We are a community of believers and we are to worship in that context. But that does not exclude our personal relationship with Christ…teachccd 🙂
 
teachccd said:
YES. I cannot even imagine a more personal relationship with Christ than our receiving Him in the Eucharist. I’m not sure who you are talking with but Catholicism began in Christ and His commands. The sacramental life of the Church is a constant encounter with our Lord. ANY Catholic who says that they do not have a personal relationshop with Christ is NOT a Catholic. The Church is not to be viewed as an opposition to Christ. The Church IS Christ. When we submit ourselves to the teachings of the Church we are no more than following Christ.

This new “me and Jesus” concept is non historical and anti biblical. We are a community of believers and we are to worship in that context. But that does not exclude our personal relationship with Christ…teachccd 🙂
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could you delve into “the Church Is Christ” In the marriage relationship, the wife is not the husband. the wife is married to the husband… and in marriage, wife= church, husband=christ, but husband is just a mortal, the only Christ, 2nd in the Trinity is different from the church. for we worship Christ, in the church, we do not worship the church?
 
“The Church IS Christ”-- so posted teachccd.

Another platitude. Another feel-good statement.

Christ is Jesus (the person) and Jesus (the Word, the Redeemer, the Saviour).

The Church is a bunch of people here on earth who believe in Christ. It is not synonymous with Christ himself.

At best, one could claim that the Church is the gathering of Christ’s people, or something like that.
 
hansard said:
“The Church IS Christ”-- so posted teachccd.

Another platitude. Another feel-good statement.

Christ is Jesus (the person) and Jesus (the Word, the Redeemer, the Saviour).

The Church is a bunch of people here on earth who believe in Christ. It is not synonymous with Christ himself.

At best, one could claim that the Church is the gathering of Christ’s people, or something like that.
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Have you not heard that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ? Christ is the head and we are the Body? Any Catholic should be aware that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that when the Magisterium speaks “ex cathedra” that it is Christ Himself who speaks. As a Catholic I can be assured that when I receive the Sacraments which are dispensed through the Church that I am receiving nothing less than Jesus Christ Himself.

My friend, this is not a “feel-good” statement. It is a statement of reality and your comment exhibits a severe lack in catechesis. How do you define the priest as being “in Persona Christi” when he consecrates the Eucharist or hears your confession?

When Jesus ascended into heaven he left a Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, to continue His mission until He comes again. The Pope is the very Vicar of Christ. A vicar is “one who stands in the place of”. Jesus passed on this authority to Peter so that whatever he binds on earth is bound in heaven and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven. This exchange of authority allows for the Church to stand as the incarnate Christ until He returns.

The Church is more than a gathering of people or “something like that”… teachccd
 
SempirVeritas said:
could you delve into “the Church Is Christ” In the marriage relationship, the wife is not the husband. the wife is married to the husband… and in marriage, wife= church, husband=christ, but husband is just a mortal, the only Christ, 2nd in the Trinity is different from the church. for we worship Christ, in the church, we do not worship the church?
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We worship the Eucharist that is given to us by Christ through the Church. Saint Paul expounds on the words of Christ when he calls the Church the Bride of Christ. Actually to understand covenant correctly you would find that a husband and wife become one in marriage. A covenant is actually an exchange of persons. Scripture is clear that the two shall become one flesh in marriage. Christ, uniting with His Church, becomes one with us in the sacraments. We partake of His divine nature when we are baptized and continue to wear Christ throughout the sacramentlal life of the Church.

We cannot comprehend these mysteries but we must apprehend the revelation as it was given to us by our Lord. The very Bible that all Christians hold as the inerrant Word of God was written and acknowledged by Christ’s Church. No, we do not worship the visible people who make up the visible Church but the Church is not just the people. The Church is multi-faceted and one of the facets includes the understanding that the Church IS the Mystical Body of Christ.

Back to your original question: Yes, Catholics have a communal and a personal relatonship with Christ… God bless… teachccd 🙂
 
I’m simply arguing, along logical lines, that Christ is not synonymous with the Church. I do not doubt the irrevocable connection between Christ and Church, but to say that they are the same… well, it would be like saying the Commissioner of Police is the Police Force.
No, he’s clearly not–he just leads the members, and sets the rules, conditions and penalties. Sometimes, the Commissioner (Jesus, if you care for the analogy) answers to a higher power.
Jesus is head of the Church. He is not THE CHURCH itself. He leads; we (hopefully) follow.
I tend to react the same whenever I see a statement like, “The Church is Christ”.
 
SempirVeritas said:
Okay, I heard somewhere that catholics do not beileve in a personal relationship with Christ…do we have a personal, individual relationship with Christ, within the bounds of His church?
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Yes, says the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

#2558 “Great is the mystery of the faith!” The Church professes this mystery in the Apostles’ Creed (Part One) and celebrates it in the sacramental liturgy (Part Two), so that the life of the faithful may be conformed to Christ in the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father (Part Three). This mystery, then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer.
 
These points may have been addressed and refuted before (honestly, who’s got a lifetime to read through a million posts?!)… but, anyway:

I await scriptural confirmation of these points (SCRIPTURAL confirmation, I stress—not self-serving explanations from the Catechism):
  1. The church is the ‘Mystical Body Of Christ’—sounds good. Where’s that written in scripture?
  2. **the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that when the Magisterium speaks “ex cathedra” that it is Christ Himself who speaks.—**sounds great! Who could argue with a church that declares itself to be correct? Scripture, please, apart from the old “Whatever you bind…”?
  3. **How do you define the priest as being “in Persona Christi” when he consecrates the Eucharist or hears your confession?—"**in Persona Christi"—where does that come from? I read a church document that explains it (“in the person of Christ”—it’s not that hard, theologically or linguistically).
  4. The Pope is the very Vicar of Christ.—who says? (Apart from the Catholic Church, that is…)
 
hansard said:
These points may have been addressed and refuted before (honestly, who’s got a lifetime to read through a million posts?!)… but, anyway:

I await scriptural confirmation of these points (SCRIPTURAL confirmation, I stress—not self-serving explanations from the Catechism):
  1. The church is the ‘Mystical Body Of Christ’—sounds good. Where’s that written in scripture?
  2. **the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and that when the Magisterium speaks “ex cathedra” that it is Christ Himself who speaks.—**sounds great! Who could argue with a church that declares itself to be correct? Scripture, please, apart from the old “Whatever you bind…”?
  3. **How do you define the priest as being “in Persona Christi” when he consecrates the Eucharist or hears your confession?—"**in Persona Christi"—where does that come from? I read a church document that explains it (“in the person of Christ”—it’s not that hard, theologically or linguistically).
  4. The Pope is the very Vicar of Christ.—who says? (Apart from the Catholic Church, that is…)
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I’m sorry. I did not realize that you are a “bible only” Christian since your profile says that you are Catholic. You cannot restrict me to Scripture when it was the Church who wrote and acknowledged the inspired texts. Where in Scripture does it say what books belong in the New Testament? Huh? Where? NOWHERE… Because it is the CHURCH that Christ left to discern with the guidance of the Holy Spirit which writings would be inspired.

Why do you hide under the guise of “Catholic” and then pop these questions on me? If you truly are a “bible only” Christian then you are not Catholic. If you are Catholic then you must follow the teachings of the Church as described in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church gave you your bible and it is that same authority with which She still speaks today.

I have to admit… you had me going for a while… God bless, teachccd
 
hansard said:
I’m simply arguing, along logical lines, that Christ is not synonymous with the Church. I do not doubt the irrevocable connection between Christ and Church, but to say that they are the same… well, it would be like saying the Commissioner of Police is the Police Force.
No, he’s clearly not–he just leads the members, and sets the rules, conditions and penalties. Sometimes, the Commissioner (Jesus, if you care for the analogy) answers to a higher power.
Jesus is head of the Church. He is not THE CHURCH itself. He leads; we (hopefully) follow.
I tend to react the same whenever I see a statement like, “The Church is Christ”.
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How do you argue along logical lines:
  1. The Virgin birth?
  2. Bread and wine becoming Christ’s actual Body and Blood?
  3. the hypostatic union of Christ?
  4. Three persons in one God?
  5. Eternity?
  6. God?
Maybe some things should just remain revelation and not thought of as having to be logical…teachccd

OP, Yes we have a personal relationship with Christ through His Church…
 
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