C
cknick
Guest
Our Seminarian is distributing the Eucharist during communion, and is schedule to also hold a communion service this week, are these considered liturgically abusive?
Our Seminarian is Distributing the Eucharist During Communion, Is This an Abuse?
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Brendan
Guest
Most likely not.
He has probably been instituted as an Acolyte, so if any lay person is needed at all to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion, then Instituted Acolytes should be used before anyone else.
Secondly, he is probably supposed to assist, as the time a seminarian spends as an Instituted Acolyte is a time to learn such things.
The only way that it would be an abuse is if there are sufficent numbers of clergy already present to distrubute, or in the highly unlikely event that he had been ordered not to by his bishop.
FYI, an Instituted Acolyte is also permitted to purify the Sacred Vessels. So if he’s doing that too, thats fine.
He has probably been instituted as an Acolyte, so if any lay person is needed at all to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion, then Instituted Acolytes should be used before anyone else.
Secondly, he is probably supposed to assist, as the time a seminarian spends as an Instituted Acolyte is a time to learn such things.
The only way that it would be an abuse is if there are sufficent numbers of clergy already present to distrubute, or in the highly unlikely event that he had been ordered not to by his bishop.
FYI, an Instituted Acolyte is also permitted to purify the Sacred Vessels. So if he’s doing that too, thats fine.
M
Mattapoisett64
Guest
Since “ordinary” laypeople can validly become Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, I’m curious as to why you would think a Seminarian (also still a layman unless he has been ordained to the diaconate) distributing Communion would be abusive?
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BrianLC
Guest
Our seminarian also distributes Communion often. I never thought twice about it. I am also in the process myself of becoming an Extraordinary Eucharistic Minister
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
Why do you think they may be abuses?
Lay people regularly distribute communion. Lay people regularly lead communion services.
Why do you think a seminarian should be excluded from these activities?
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Newbie2
Guest
Our present deacon was not allowed by our diocese to Lector or serve as an Extrodinary Minister during his formation in the deaconate program. Maybe this was a diocese thing, but I wonder if that is the same for those in priestly formation in some places?
I wouldn’t think it’d ever qualify as an “abuse”, though.
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
That may be unique to your diocese, or unique to those becoming permanent deacons. In my experience, if Bob-the-seminarian is around and so is John-the-extraordinary-minister, Bob will get tapped more often. In part it may be that he’s around the parish office or rectory, or it may be especially to give him experiences that he might not otherwise have.
C
cknick
Guest
I thought I read somewhere that Seminarians were suppose to distribute the Precious Blood only. But it makes sense what you are saying about becoming an acolyte, because he just began purifying the vessels about two weeks ago. He has been giving the homily from time for a while, and I didn’t think they were allowed to do that either, but I must be wrong about that, too. It is probably good for training…they have to learn sometime. Thanks for the clarification.
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Cluny
Guest
Your original post said that the Seminarian was “distributing the Eucharist.”
Are you saying that the Precious Blood is not the Eucharist as well?
BTW–see my posting in the Traditional Catholicism forum entitled “LITURGICAL ABUSE!”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=342512
This term, I feel, is flung around TOO much.
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Brendan
Guest
Perhaps you misunderstoond. I was in the Diaconate program for 3 years ( until kids 4 and 5 came along
)What was asked of us was that if we were involved in those ministries, then we should stop them until told otherwise.
Once we were instituted as Readers, then we could (and should) Read at Mass. And then, when they advanced and were Instituted as Acolytes, then (and only then) were they to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion.
Seminarians, who are also canidates towards Holy Orders, generally follow the same format.
Their time as a Reader is generally done in the seminary, but the time as an Acolyte is timed to correspond with the parish internship. The internship the time where they spend a few months living in a parish rectory and participainting the life of the parish. THis is the opportunuty for them to see first hand what the life of a parish priest is so they can make a more informed discernment on if this is the life for them.
Part of that is the distribution of Holy Communion. And that is only an abuse if their are sufficent clergy present to distribute the Eucharist.
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Brendan
Guest
That part IS specifically forbidden. His time to practice homiletics is during his Diaconal formational year, not as an unordained seminarian.
Redemptionis Sacramentum
If the seminarian needs public speaking time, he may do so after the Communion, in the time reserved for parish announcements etc.
The time between the Gospel and the Creed is time reserved to those already in Holy Orders.
J
japhy
Guest
If he has been officially instituted as an acolyte by the Bishop, he may purify the sacred vessels.
Err, no. The homily must be given only by an ordained minister: deacon, priest, or bishop. No seminarians.
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Newbie2
Guest
Come to think of it, you’re right. As I recall, he said at one time that they were not “supposed to” participate in those ministries, and that was right at the beginning of his formation.Perhaps you misunderstoond. I was in the Diaconate program for 3 years ( until kids 4 and 5 came along
What was asked of us was that if we were involved in those ministries, then we should stop them until told otherwise.
Once we were instituted as Readers, then we could (and should) Read at Mass. And then, when they advanced and were Instituted as Acolytes, then (and only then) were they to assist in the distribution of Holy Communion.
Seminarians, who are also canidates towards Holy Orders, generally follow the same format.
.
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SuscipeMeDomine
Guest
Thanks for the explanations about seminarians being instituted as lectors and acolytes. I knew that but somehow didn’t apply it to the reality of how a seminarian in a parish is put to use at Mass and elsewhere.
J
jmjconder
Guest
The one point I question is why the Communion Services? Is it simply because there is no daily Mass? That would be an abuse of the original intent of Communion Services.
Communion Services are meant for remote areas that do not have access to regular priest to celebrate Sunday Mass and that does not include any area within the US (to my knowledge). Communion Services are not to be offered in parishes that for some reason do not have a daily Mass scheduled on that day - and for sure in cities that have other parishes offering daily Masses.
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cknick
Guest
This week the priests are on retreat. On our regular schedule, we have a priest saying mass at 6:30 daily, then for our regularly scheduled 8:30 mass, we have communion services scheduled through friday, with with the seminarian, now acolyte, to preside later in the week.
Because I wasn’t sure he wasn’t suppose to be giving the homily, I questioned him presiding over the communion service too, so I decided to ask…
Because I wasn’t sure he wasn’t suppose to be giving the homily, I questioned him presiding over the communion service too, so I decided to ask…
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jmjconder
Guest
In this instance the Communion service is clearly an liturgical abuse for the faithful could attend the 6:30 Mass. Although even if the 6:30 Mass was not scheduled a Communion service scheduled in place of a daily Mass is unnecessary. I understand many Catholics have daily Mass as part of their prayer life…a Communion service is not the same as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and it often appears that way when it is scheduled as its “replacement” as in these types of instances.
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cknick
Guest
So…what i need to say/do in response is …
(fully knowing that my pastor will give me a severe tongue lashing for questioning his authority…and i will be shaking like a leaf…)
(fully knowing that my pastor will give me a severe tongue lashing for questioning his authority…and i will be shaking like a leaf…)
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Linuse
Guest
I’m not sure, but I think that an acolyte is considered an Ordinary, not an extra-ordinary minister of the Eucharist. As such he is part of the clergy and can distribute Communion even if there are enough ordained ministers present.
Fr. Linus
Fr. Linus
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
As far as I know:
- an acolyte is an ordinary minister of communion. Thus an acolyte should be used before extraordinary ministers are used.
- A communion service may be led by a layperson (male or female). It is obviously preferable that it be a deacon, but it is not absolutely necessary.
- As for a homily at Mass, only a priest or deacon may do so. However, at the communion service the leader of the service is free to offer a reflection.
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