Out of all Church Doctrines shouldn't we get this one right?

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denwiles

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Ok I am very frustrated at the Lack of Knowledge many people in the Church Have Today. I often work with new Catholic Converts from other religions and when they ask how do I get saved or how can I go to Heaven. The response is always get Baptized or you’re saved through Baptism. That all they usually get told and they either never truly understand Salvation or they get frustrated and move on to another Denomination.
So why all the Confusion?
  1. God made Man
  2. Man sinned and was spiritually separated from God. The soul that sins dies
  3. Who was going to Mediate between God and man and bring them back together
  4. God sent Jesus to do this
  5. All the Sacrifices in the Old Testament foreshadowed what Jesus would truly do
  6. Jesus born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, lived a perfect sinless life and died for the entire world. Simply Stated. We sinned and now must pay the price which is death, but Jesus died in our place and paid the price of sin for us.
    Now we all know that Jesus provided for our redemption, but how we receive that redemption is what is always argued about.
    Please hear me out all the way.
  7. Baptism alone can save no one unless Jesus already provided the way
  8. Baptism physically means you are being baptized into Jesus Spiritually
  9. Jesus saves we all know that
    So how do we receive this redemption?
  10. It is a gift no one disputes that, the Bible clearly says that.
  11. It is received by Faith, no one disputes that
    So where is the argument?
  12. Protestants say faith alone
  13. Catholics say Jesus Yes, but through Baptism and good works
    These arguments are Satan’s way of bringing Confusion and bringing division.
    Here is the truth
  14. We were all born into sin
  15. We all need a Savior
  16. Jesus paid the price
  17. God knows the Heart if someone truly accepted Him
  18. Salvation is a gift
  19. Jesus is our Grace- Because grace saved us from the wrath of God, because of sin
  20. Jesus and Grace can never be separated as well as Jesus and Baptism, Hello when you’re baptized your baptized into Christ.
  21. Belief is not just an intelligent observation, but action will always back it up.
    JESUS SAVES ALONE, BUT OUR TRUE RESPONSE TO THIS SALVATION IS ACTION “BAPTISM”
  22. Baptism does not save Jesus does, we don’t say I was saved by baptism, but we say I was saved by beining Baptized in Jesus through Baptism
    Now that we are saved everyday day we spend time with our Father, because we have been brought back into right standing with Him through Jesus.
    So why don’t people understand their Salvation? A Priest that we had at one time told me most in the Church don’t say I’m saved because they don’t know if they are and it is not a concept we need to live by. Wow!!! Why would God give us a gift (Jesus) and not be concerned if we know Him or not? That why so many are confused they don’t know Him. Our Evangelism is to make sure they know Jesus and him crucified.
 
I have rerad your post three times and still am not sure what you are trying to say.
Are you claiming that we are saved by Faith alone?
Are you saying that once we are saved we are always saved?
 
I’m not sure I see anything in the OP that conflicts with Church teaching. Although I admit I am not positive I understand the OP’s message.
 
denwiles said:
Ok I am very frustrated at the Lack of Knowledge many people in the Church Have Today. I often work with new Catholic Converts from other religions and when they ask how do I get saved or how can I go to Heaven. The response is always get Baptized or you’re saved through Baptism. That all they usually get told
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That’s a fat lot of use 😦​

and they either never truly understand Salvation or they get frustrated and move on to another Denomination.
So why all the Confusion?
  1. God made Man
  2. Man sinned and was spiritually separated from God. The soul that sins dies
  3. Who was going to Mediate between God and man and bring them back together
  4. God sent Jesus to do this
  5. All the Sacrifices in the Old Testament foreshadowed what Jesus would truly do
  6. Jesus born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, lived a perfect sinless life and died for the entire world. Simply Stated. We sinned and now must pay the price which is death, but Jesus died in our place and paid the price of sin for us.
    Now we all know that Jesus provided for our redemption, but how we receive that redemption is what is always argued about.
    Please hear me out all the way.
  7. Baptism alone can save no one unless Jesus already provided the way
  8. Baptism physically means you are being baptized into Jesus Spiritually
  9. Jesus saves we all know that
    So how do we receive this redemption?
  10. It is a gift no one disputes that, the Bible clearly says that.
  11. It is received by Faith, no one disputes that
    So where is the argument?
  12. Protestants say faith alone
  13. Catholics say Jesus Yes, but through Baptism and good works
    These arguments are Satan’s way of bringing Confusion and bringing division.
    Here is the truth
  14. We were all born into sin
  15. We all need a Savior
  16. Jesus paid the price
  17. God knows the Heart if someone truly accepted Him
  18. Salvation is a gift
  19. Jesus is our Grace- Because grace saved us from the wrath of God, because of sin
  20. Jesus and Grace can never be separated as well as Jesus and Baptism, Hello when you’re baptized your baptized into Christ.
  21. Belief is not just an intelligent observation, but action will always back it up.
    JESUS SAVES ALONE, BUT OUR TRUE RESPONSE TO THIS SALVATION IS ACTION “BAPTISM”
  22. Baptism does not save Jesus does, we don’t say I was saved by baptism, but we say I was saved by beining Baptized in Jesus through Baptism
    Now that we are saved everyday day we spend time with our Father, because we have been brought back into right standing with Him through Jesus.
    So why don’t people understand their Salvation? A Priest that we had at one time told me most in the Church don’t say I’m saved because they don’t know if they are and it is not a concept we need to live by. Wow!!! Why would God give us a gift (Jesus) and not be concerned if we know Him or not? That why so many are confused they don’t know Him. Our Evangelism is to make sure they know Jesus and him crucified.
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I share your frustration :(:(:(:eek: The CC is like a sleeping giant, that could be so much more effective.​

Maybe that’s what comes of being in a “liturgical” Church - the “religious professionals” (= clergy & religious of various sorts) do the work, while everyone else sits back not bothering to evangelise. Something’s missing - & I don’t know what. Maybe things are healthier in the USA - I hope so. 😦 I think clericalism is part of the problem. Even though things are much better than they were, which is something to be thankful for 🙂
 
denwiles said:
Ok I am very frustrated at the Lack of Knowledge many people in the Church Have Today. I often work with new Catholic Converts from other religions and when they ask how do I get saved or how can I go to Heaven. The response is always get Baptized or you’re saved through Baptism. That all they usually get told and they either never truly understand Salvation or they get frustrated and move on to another Denomination.
So why all the Confusion?
  1. God made Man
  2. Man sinned and was spiritually separated from God. The soul that sins dies
  3. Who was going to Mediate between God and man and bring them back together
  4. God sent Jesus to do this
  5. All the Sacrifices in the Old Testament foreshadowed what Jesus would truly do
  6. Jesus born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, lived a perfect sinless life and died for the entire world. Simply Stated. We sinned and now must pay the price which is death, but Jesus died in our place and paid the price of sin for us.
    Now we all know that Jesus provided for our redemption, but how we receive that redemption is what is always argued about.
    Please hear me out all the way.
  7. Baptism alone can save no one unless Jesus already provided the way
  8. Baptism physically means you are being baptized into Jesus Spiritually
  9. Jesus saves we all know that
    So how do we receive this redemption?
  10. It is a gift no one disputes that, the Bible clearly says that.
  11. It is received by Faith, no one disputes that
    So where is the argument?
  12. Protestants say faith alone
  13. Catholics say Jesus Yes, but through Baptism and good works
    These arguments are Satan’s way of bringing Confusion and bringing division.
    Here is the truth
  14. We were all born into sin
  15. We all need a Savior
  16. Jesus paid the price
  17. God knows the Heart if someone truly accepted Him
  18. Salvation is a gift
  19. Jesus is our Grace- Because grace saved us from the wrath of God, because of sin
  20. Jesus and Grace can never be separated as well as Jesus and Baptism, Hello when you’re baptized your baptized into Christ.
  21. Belief is not just an intelligent observation, but action will always back it up.
    JESUS SAVES ALONE, BUT OUR TRUE RESPONSE TO THIS SALVATION IS ACTION “BAPTISM”
  22. Baptism does not save Jesus does, we don’t say I was saved by baptism, but we say I was saved by beining Baptized in Jesus through Baptism
    Now that we are saved everyday day we spend time with our Father, because we have been brought back into right standing with Him through Jesus.
    So why don’t people understand their Salvation? A Priest that we had at one time told me most in the Church don’t say I’m saved because they don’t know if they are and it is not a concept we need to live by. Wow!!! Why would God give us a gift (Jesus) and not be concerned if we know Him or not? That why so many are confused they don’t know Him. Our Evangelism is to make sure they know Jesus and him crucified.
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Dear friend in Christ,

I found you’re post very interesting.

However it does seem to me that you answered the question you raise. How are we saved?

I’m not one to jump to conclusions easily, so I look forward to you’re enlightened response.

Love and prayer’s

Pat
 
There is nothing wrong with the Church in general, LET’S GET THAT STRAIGHT. The way that Christ established it is the way it ought to be. That being said, us Catholics on the otherhand need to live up to the mission of the Church.

The Church is faced with many issues these days, and I think one thing that has done damage to the Church is liberalism and relativism. Catholics supporting liberalism and simply going against orthodoxy has given many mixed messages to upcoming generations of future Catholics. When you get to a point where truth is not black and white then it really does not matter what you believe, and that is one thing that many Catholics have turned to. Who the h*ll is going to stand up and defend or even be willing to die for something that they do not beleive is black and white and real?! That is what religious liberalism has created, a bunch of Catholics who are only Catholic for a social identity rather than a religious devotion.

But you know what I am afraid is going to have to happen in order for Catholics to change? PERSECUTION. When people are forced to make a sacrifice in order to be Catholic then that will be what seperates the wheat from the tares and will turn a Church full of sheep into a remnant of lions.
 
What I am saying is this: Say a person who is interested in becoming a Christian comes up to someone leaving the chuch after Mass. And says, hey I want to be a Christian, What must I do? Most Christians don’t know how to answer the person, and I do have mercy I use to be one. Many say get Baptized, go through classes that start in September, and join the church. The person don’t have a clue who Jesus is, the purpose of the Cross, the reason for blood shed, the reason the vail in the temple was torn in two, and many have no clue about the purpose of the Euchrist, they don’t know nothing and many people in the Church don’t know enough to tell them.
One time I met a man in the park and I was reading my Bible and he said you know I always wanted to be a Christian, after we talked for a while he knew about Jesus and what he should do. He said after many years he could never find anyone who could tell him what to do. He said many said go talk to a Priest or go talk to a Pastor, but he was to scared to talk to a church leader for what ever reason.
So my frustration is this; why don’t all church people truly know the Lord so they can lead others to Him. I hate to say this but they know about Baptism in water, but can’t explain what it really means. We are baptized into Christ. When we are water Baptized.
Last I knew we were the ones who must Evangelize the world, Jesus is in Heaven right now. So if we don’t do it to every generation who will? No One! It’s all our Job.
I can tell people about my wife becaus I know my wife. ***How much more shoul I know Christ? Alot more!!! That is why the Apostle Paul said “I count all things dung for the Knowledge of Christ” I must Know Him!***For the Record, for the one who posted a few post back.
I don’t Believe in once saved always saved and I believe true Christians do works. I don’t believe in Christians who say they are saved and don’t work for the Lord. That is just not right. There shouldn’t be an argument their. You will know them by thier fruits or works.
Hope this helped. God Bless
 
I agree with you! It is not just a Catholic thing, when I was Southern Baptist we had the same problem, and that is many people lacked that zeal to understand their faith and the Bible. I thank God that He has given me a zeal to learn my Faith and the desire to want others to learn about it too. Where I lack in IQ (and I surely do!) God has replaced with drive and desire.

But I think that what many people have against them is destractions of the world, and they find themselves thinking about everything but God’s Word. It’s easy to do. But I do know that when you have zealous Catholics who are devoted to God and are out there trying to make a difference, it becomes contagious. And we need to remember that, and try to change this problem one person at a time.
 
COPLAND_3 said:
I agree with you! It is not just a Catholic thing, when I was Southern Baptist we had the same problem, and that is many people lacked that zeal to understand their faith and the Bible. I thank God that He has given me a zeal to learn my Faith and the desire to want others to learn about it too. Where I lack in IQ (and I surely do!) God has replaced with drive and desire.

But I think that what many people have against them is destractions of the world, and they find themselves thinking about everything but God’s Word. It’s easy to do. But I do know that when you have zealous Catholics who are devoted to God and are out there trying to make a difference, it becomes contagious. And we need to remember that, and try to change this problem one person at a time.
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Amen- so True, and praise God you and so many others on this site are on fire for God. Their are some tremendous Catholics who Love the Lord so much and their lives prove it. I truly don’t want to Judge anyone nor can I. Out of all Doctrines this one is the most important and I hope all of us will be able to give an answer of our Hope, Jesus.
 
denwiles said:
Ok I am very frustrated at the Lack of Knowledge many people in the Church Have Today. I often work with new Catholic Converts from other religions and when they ask how do I get saved or how can I go to Heaven. The response is always get Baptized or you’re saved through Baptism. That all they usually get told and they either never truly understand Salvation or they get frustrated and move on to another Denomination.
So why all the Confusion?
  1. God made Man
  2. Man sinned and was spiritually separated from God. The soul that sins dies
  3. Who was going to Mediate between God and man and bring them back together
  4. God sent Jesus to do this
  5. All the Sacrifices in the Old Testament foreshadowed what Jesus would truly do
  6. Jesus born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, lived a perfect sinless life and died for the entire world. Simply Stated. We sinned and now must pay the price which is death, but Jesus died in our place and paid the price of sin for us.
    Now we all know that Jesus provided for our redemption, but how we receive that redemption is what is always argued about.
    Please hear me out all the way.
  7. Baptism alone can save no one unless Jesus already provided the way
  8. Baptism physically means you are being baptized into Jesus Spiritually
  9. Jesus saves we all know that
    So how do we receive this redemption?
  10. It is a gift no one disputes that, the Bible clearly says that.
  11. It is received by Faith, no one disputes that
    So where is the argument?
  12. Protestants say faith alone
  13. Catholics say Jesus Yes, but through Baptism and good works
    These arguments are Satan’s way of bringing Confusion and bringing division.
    Here is the truth
  14. We were all born into sin
  15. We all need a Savior
  16. Jesus paid the price
  17. God knows the Heart if someone truly accepted Him
  18. Salvation is a gift
  19. Jesus is our Grace- Because grace saved us from the wrath of God, because of sin
  20. Jesus and Grace can never be separated as well as Jesus and Baptism, Hello when you’re baptized your baptized into Christ.
  21. Belief is not just an intelligent observation, but action will always back it up.
    JESUS SAVES ALONE, BUT OUR TRUE RESPONSE TO THIS SALVATION IS ACTION “BAPTISM”
  22. Baptism does not save Jesus does, we don’t say I was saved by baptism, but we say I was saved by beining Baptized in Jesus through Baptism
    Now that we are saved everyday day we spend time with our Father, because we have been brought back into right standing with Him through Jesus.
    So why don’t people understand their Salvation? A Priest that we had at one time told me most in the Church don’t say I’m saved because they don’t know if they are and it is not a concept we need to live by. Wow!!! Why would God give us a gift (Jesus) and not be concerned if we know Him or not? That why so many are confused they don’t know Him. Our Evangelism is to make sure they know Jesus and him crucified.
Click to expand...
True, true, just want to comment on one thing though, the Church doesn’t teach that we are “saved” by Baptism, anotherwords we don’t become a saint instantly just by being baptized (except for extreme cases), rather, yes, we repent of our old ways, take Christ to be our Saviour, are baptized into His death and recieve the Holy Spirit, and then are to follow Him. But . . . salvation–TRUE salvation is the day we can stand before our Bridegroom completely and utterly spotless, ready to be taking by the hand by Him. And* that* salvation can never–WILL NEVER be lost.

Until then, all of us have so many things which must be erradicated within our souls. Mortal sins and things worthy of Purgatory (though those in Purgatory are saved, just not spotless at the moment).
 
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