S
Servant19
Guest
Hi Wes,
My humble understanding is that an Incarnate God cannot also be a mediator between God and man.
.
- Status
My humble understanding is that an Incarnate God cannot also be a mediator between God and man.
.
S
Servant19
Guest
Hi Lucretius, I will address your other post soon when time permits, however in response to this post, I would like to ask if you can share what the nature of the Incarnation is?He probably thinks that when the Apostle writes that the man Christ is the mediator between God and Man, that since Jesus isn’t explicitly identified as Divine, but only explicitly identified as man, while God is differentiated from Christ, that this indicates that Christ is not Divine, according to St. Paul. It’s similar to how the Apostles say that there is only one God, and only one Lord Jesus Christ.
The problem is that the quotation, when read in light of Christ’s dual nature, is actually teaching that the major reason only Christ can be the bridge between Heaven and Earth is because He is born of both God and Man: He is a part of both worlds.
I’m sure he will correct me if I got him.wrong somewhere
Christi pax,
Lucretius
Isn’t the MAN Jesus also fully God, fully Divine?
.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
John 8:58-59I wouldn’t trust the Jews in the day of Jesus Abu. They couldn’t recognise the Messiah when He was staring them in the face
The understanding of the relationship between God and His Word made flesh was very primitive during the Mosaic Dispensation. Naturally they lacked understanding and made many conclusions.
.
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
For what offense did the Jews desire to stone Jesus?
Mark 14:63-65
63 The high priest tore his clothes. “Why do we need any more witnesses?” he asked. 64 “You have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?” They all condemned him as worthy of death.
For what crime did the Jews pursue Jesus’ death at the hands of the Romans?
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
The second person of the Trinity cannot mediate on behalf of mankind with the first Person of the Trinity?
S
Servant19
Guest
But 1Tim 12:15 does not mention the first Person of the Trinity. It explicitly mentions God.The second person of the Trinity cannot mediate on behalf of mankind with the first Person of the Trinity?
.
S
Servant19
Guest
Thank you Randy, however, the perspective I am sharing is one that proposes that the Jews have no idea who God is.
Throughout history, our understanding of God and His nature and His relationship with His Word and with creation has unfolded progressively. In comparison to Christianity, the Jewish concept of God is lacking. In comparison to Judaism, the Hindu concept of God is lacking.
I believe the Baha’i Faith has further divulged the mysteries inherent in the Christian concept of God. Yet, even so, the Baha’i concept of God is but a speck compared to the infinite Truths contained in God’s nature and His relationship with His Word.
The Pharisees had no right to stone Jesus, they lacked humility in thinking that they understood God. God forbid that we should ever commit such an offence again…
.
L
Lucretius
Guest
Incarnation isn’t the Being with the Divine Nature taking on a physical Divine Nature, but rather the Being with the Divine Nature taking on a physical Human Nature. The Incarnation just is a person with both Divine and Human Natures (Son of God and Son of Man: begotten by the Father and born of the Virgin Mary).
The reason Christ is the mediator between the Being with the Divine Nature and the beings with Human Nature is because He is both.
Question: what is mediating, but your standard of definition?
Christi pax,
Lucretius
L
Lucretius
Guest
We can know things about God, but we can’t comprehend Him. We can swim in the sea, but we can’t drink it
The problem with Islam and all religions formed after Christianity is that they must deny Christian truths, such as the Divinity of Christ, the Eucharist, etc., etc. These religions aren’t progressive in that they build on teachings of Christ.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
L
Lucretius
Guest
Miracles are fitting because they help men understand that the Fruits of the Spirit are supernatural by connecting them to events that go above the natural order. They are necessary in that they are needed to point to the validity of a Revelation, but they are not the substance of faith. Without miracles, anyone can claim Divine revelation, and we could distinguish between valid and invalid Revelation.
To put it another way, original sin weakens the intellect so that miracles become a practical necessity. Furthermore, we could also say the miracles just are some of the Fruits of the Spirit as well.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
S
Servant19
Guest
And it is the Divine nature that existed in heaven before Abraham and came down from heaven in the form of Jesus the man, correct?
.
L
Lucretius
Guest
S
Servant19
Guest
Love, patience, humility, reverence, truthfulness and compassion are all supernatural Lucretius and have a much more lasting effect than having to heal people.
Baha’u’llah healed people, raised people from the dead, and performed numerous miracles. A book written by one of His Apostles containing all His miracles up to the point of His exile to Baghdad was presented to Him and Baha’u’llah threw it into the River Tigris.
The true miracle of God is to resurrect the dead, unloving, impatient, egotistical, irreverent, untruthful, merciless soul into a loving, patient, humble, reverent, truthful and compassionate soul.
That is the true supernatural nature of religion. These are the fruits God is after, not if we can walk on water or not.
.
S
Servant19
Guest
Well, this is what unites Christianity with Islam and the Baha’i Faith.
They all had Messengers of God who existed before they were born on earth. They were from heaven, and came down from heaven, incarnated as the Word made flesh.
Christ, Muhammad, the Bab, and Baha’u’llah all had a Divine and a human nature. They are very few and far between. The most precious Beings to ever walk the earth.
.
S
Servant19
Guest
We can know things about God, but we can’t comprehend Him. We can swim in the sea, but we can’t drink it
So for the Pharisees to think that they knew God well enough to be able to see that Jesus was God is a contradiction to the phrase “God is incomprehensible”…
All new religions upset the status quo Lucretius
Are you circumcised?
Do you celebrate the Jewish festivals?
God finds ways of testing the Spirit of His loved ones
.
V
Vico
Guest
Christianity teaches that Christ is God the Son (not adopted), but that others may only be adopted sons of God.
S
Servant19
Guest
Hi Vico, not sure where you have read in Islamic, Babi or Baha’i Writings that Muhamad, the Bab or Baha’u’llah are “adopted” sons of God?
Do you have a source for your statement please?
Thanks you and God bless
.
V
Vico
Guest
I have studied Islam and am familiar with emanationism.Hi Vico, not sure where you have read in Islamic, Babi or Baha’i Writings that Muhamad, the Bab or Baha’u’llah are “adopted” sons of God?
Do you have a source for your statement please?
Thanks you and God bless
.
Catechism of the Catholic Church, describes the difference between consubstantial (which applies to the person of Jesus Christ the Son of God) and adoption (which applies to all with human nature, except Jesus Christ).
242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is “consubstantial” with the Father, that is, one only God with him.66 The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed “the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father”.67
66 The English phrases “of one being” and “one in being” translate the Greek word homoousios, which was rendered in Latin by consubstantialis.
67 Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed; cf. DS 150.
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. 46
46 Cf. Jn 1:12-18; 17:3; Rom 8:14-17; 2 Pet 1:3-4.
**2026 **The grace of the Holy Spirit can confer true merit on us, by virtue of our adoptive filiation, and in accordance with God’s gratuitous justice. Charity is the principal source of merit in us before God.
67 Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed; cf. DS 150.
480 Jesus Christ is true God and true man, in the unity of his divine person; for this reason he is the one and only mediator between God and men.
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life. 46
46 Cf. Jn 1:12-18; 17:3; Rom 8:14-17; 2 Pet 1:3-4.
**2026 **The grace of the Holy Spirit can confer true merit on us, by virtue of our adoptive filiation, and in accordance with God’s gratuitous justice. Charity is the principal source of merit in us before God.
The Heresy of Adoptionism
Adoptionism, in a broad sense, a christological theory according to which Christ, as man, is the adoptive Son of God; the precise import of the word varies with the successive stages and exponents of the theory. …
The official condemnation of Adoptionism is to be found (1) in Pope Hadrian’s two letters, one to the bishops of Spain, 785, and the other to Charlemagne, 794; (2) in the decrees of the Council of Frankfort (794), summoned by Charlemagne, it is true, but “in full apostolic power” and presided over by the legate of Rome, therefore a synodus universalis, according to an expression of contemporary chroniclers. In these documents the natural divine filiation of Jesus even as man is strongly asserted, and His adoptive filiation, at least in so far as it excludes the natural, is rejected as heretical.
Sollier, J. (1907). Adoptionism. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. newadvent.org/cathen/01150a.htm
P
Peccavi
Guest
I note when you blame “the Jews” you use the term collectively and that is the stem from which anti-semitism was born. Jesus was a Jew Mary and Joseph were Jews the disciples were Jews. It was one group of Jews who persecuted Jesus NOT the whole Jewish people. Indeed the earliest followers of Jesus were not called Christians but Nazarenes and described by Roman writers as quote “a Jewish sect”.
Blaming the Jews collectively for the death of Jesus and conveniently downgrading the part Rome played in it is the oldest slander and the root of genocides.
Blaming the Jews collectively for the death of Jesus and conveniently downgrading the part Rome played in it is the oldest slander and the root of genocides.
S
Servant19
Guest
Hi Vico,
I still have never seen the term “adopted” to refer to the relationship between Baha’u’llah or Muhammad with God. Could you explain why you think this please?
Secondly, it is impossible for the grace of the Holy Spirit to teach that “Jesus Christ …is the one and only mediator between God and men.”
Impossible.
.
- Status