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utunumsint

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We are about to have our fourth child and first daughter. But

-we are in debt
-even with great effort, we can only bring the debt down by a couple of hundred a month

With the level of poverty, my wife thinks the only solution is for

a-either her to get an IUD
b-I get a vasectomy

I can’t really argue with her logic. We can’t afford to have another child. You have to be a project manager in terms of the management skills to keep on top of all the things each child needs.

I want to be faithful, I want to be true to the church’s teachings, but without a miracle, we will not be able to.

Please pray for us.
Ut
 
I’m got to risk condemnation here. But contraception is not considered a sin outside of the Catholic church. But whether its right or wrong, lets looks at the facts.

The fertility in Europe in 1-2 children and in the US 2-3 children. Whereas in parts of Africa its 8-9 children.

So obviously nearly everyone in the developed world uses contraception. Thsi is the reality.
 
Dave_B said:
I’m got to risk condemnation here. But contraception is not considered a sin outside of the Catholic church. But whether its right or wrong, lets looks at the facts.

The fertility in Europe in 1-2 children and in the US 2-3 children. Whereas in parts of Africa its 8-9 children.

So obviously nearly everyone in the developed world uses contraception. Thsi is the reality.
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I agree with your statics. I believe that the weath and prosperity that the developing world has maintained has come occured because of contraception and abortion. We’ve payed for our lifestyle by sacrificing the next generation.

God bless,
Ut
 
I understand that the chuch condemns contraception, however this is one thing that I do not agree with the church on.

I use contraception, I always have and until I reach menopause, I will continue to use contraception. I do not view it as evil or as a rejection of God’s gift of reproduction. I view it as respecting the awesome power of reproduction and acknowledging that financially we can not survive without Government assistence - which we don’t qualify for - if we were to have another child. I want to remain intimate with my Husband so therefore, I will continue to prevent another pregnancy.

I think in this case, you have do what is best for you and pray that God will understand and be with you.
 
Nothing is worth more than the life a couple brings into the world. NFP or abstinence are your best options. Can your wife open a daycare? The tax breaks are amazing. We did that and the effect was equivalent to a huge tax write off. It sounds like you need to consider other options. We’ve used the church food pantry before and even had a month’s mortgage and automobile payment through one of our Protestant churches before becoming Catholic.

There are biological side effects for either of you being sterilized. I resented my wife getting the tubiligation. It made me very angry and I fought off the desire to abandon her for the sake of our children. Do you realize that you are feeding right into the trap set by Satan? Sin gets easier and easier as one justifies another. They increase in number and severity.

Please abstain and pray. Commit to the children you already have if no other solution presents itself. My wife and I are surviving off of a teacher salary with only 2 years experience. I left my engineering job and am back in graduate school. if one of yo does not have a degree, apply for financial aid and see what you can qualify for. Do whatever it takes to survive. Just please try to avoid this. These kinds of sins can set a couple against each other without them even realizing it until its too late.
 
May God bless you and your growing family for your persevering in faithfulness to His Word:

Our Father,
Who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be Thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come,
Thy Will be done,
on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.

Amen. :hug1:
 
Hi,
I risk being called as unrelaistic but Mary Gave birth to Jesus IN A MANGER.

Tell Jesus, He would understand.

"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yes, I will help thee; yes, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness: Isaiah 41:10

Will be praying for you,
Joe
 
Memorare (Prayer to Our Lady)
Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to your protection, implored your help, or sought your intercession, was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto you, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother. To you do I come, before you I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in your mercy, hear and answer me. Amen
 
joeantony said:
Hi,
I risk being called as unrelaistic but Mary Gave birth to Jesus IN A MANGER.

Tell Jesus, He would understand.

"Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yes, I will help thee; yes, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness: Isaiah 41:10

Will be praying for you,
Joe
Click to expand...
Yea but Marie only had one kid, who was the Son of God!!! I bet you Jesus didn’t pour an entire bottle of maple sirup on Marie’s carpet. 😃

But seriously, I just need prayer. Thanks for offering them.

God bless,
Ut
 
Bless this couple dear Lord and help them out of their financial woes so that they can get on with their marriage and raising the children without distraction. An Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be and a Fatima Prayer for their intentions.
 
utunumsint said:
Yea but Marie only had one kid, who was the Son of God!!! I bet you Jesus didn’t pour an entire bottle of maple sirup on Marie’s carpet. 😃

But seriously, I just need prayer. Thanks for offering them.

God bless,
Ut
Click to expand...
Sorry, I guess I overstepped…

Prayers are assured…

Joe
 
utunumsint said:
We are about to have our fourth child and first daughter. But

-we are in debt
-even with great effort, we can only bring the debt down by a couple of hundred a month

With the level of poverty, my wife thinks the only solution is for

a-either her to get an IUD
b-I get a vasectomy

I can’t really argue with her logic. We can’t afford to have another child. You have to be a project manager in terms of the management skills to keep on top of all the things each child needs.

I want to be faithful, I want to be true to the church’s teachings, but without a miracle, we will not be able to.

Please pray for us.
Ut
Click to expand...
Hi Ut,

Congratulations!

My wife and I have four kids too, 6y, 3y, 2y, 8m, Joseph, Ashlin, Monica, Brendan. We decided to abstain for a while, we’ve done so for about 1 year. All of our energy goes to raising the children. Is it ok to abstain without having a serious reason? Exhaustion and financial reasons probably don’t count. I don’t know if I’m right or not, but I think there is a way to see it more positively; there was a time to have the children, and now is the time to raise/teach them. For now, our marriage is fine.

I’m curious why abstinence is not an option?

You’re in my prayers.
Thanks,
Scalco
 
utunumsint said:
We are about to have our fourth child and first daughter. But

-we are in debt
-even with great effort, we can only bring the debt down by a couple of hundred a monthUt
Click to expand...
not necessarily you personally but in general to anyone facing this scenario
are your children really the reason, the only reason you are in debt?
 
SCALCO said:
Hi Ut,

Congratulations!

My wife and I have four kids too, 6y, 3y, 2y, 8m, Joseph, Ashlin, Monica, Brendan. We decided to abstain for a while, we’ve done so for about 1 year. All of our energy goes to raising the children. Is it ok to abstain without having a serious reason? Exhaustion and financial reasons probably don’t count. I don’t know if I’m right or not, but I think there is a way to see it more positively; there was a time to have the children, and now is the time to raise/teach them. For now, our marriage is fine.

I’m curious why abstinence is not an option?

You’re in my prayers.
Thanks,
Scalco
Click to expand...
Good to hear from you again Scalco. I wonder what happened to Soc? 🙂 I miss our debates with him.

I believe that we can go the route of abstinence, but my wife is too scared to risk it (she thinks that either I or her will be weak, and we will end up with a fifth). She is also post-partum. She has been for over three years now. She isn’t really capable of being positive about anything right now.

God bless,
Ut
 
puzzleannie said:
not necessarily you personally but in general to anyone facing this scenario
are your children really the reason, the only reason you are in debt?
Click to expand...
Nope. You can also add a string of bad decisions, bad luck, poor organizational skills, difficulty maintaining a budget, difficulty accepting the social status that comes with living according to our means, the easy access to credit, recourse to credit in a compulsive way due to severe post-partum depression. All of these would be excusable in people who weren’t living on a shoe string budget, but for us, they add up.

I’m sure there are others who could add to this list.

God bless,
Ut
 
A tricky situation I hope you do whats right for your growth in the Lord

Our Father who art in Heaven
Hallowed be thy name
Thy Kingdom come
Thy Will be done
On Earth as it is in Heaven
Give us this day our daily bread
And forgive us our trespasses
As we forgive those who trespass against us
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver us from evil
Amen
 
Ut> Good to hear from you again Scalco. I wonder what happened to Soc? I miss our debates with him.

I believe that we can go the route of abstinence, but my wife is too scared to risk it (she thinks that either I or her will be weak, and we will end up with a fifth). She is also post-partum. She has been for over three years now. She isn’t really capable of being positive about anything right now.

God bless,
Ut

Socrates is now known as Spockrates. He’s still active and gradually on his way to becoming Catholic. I was more of a lurker during those debates, but you and Pnuema07 are truly inspirational. I owe you a bit of thanks.

We were scared too. My selfishness caused my wife to be angry at me. She said she was going to make her decision regardless of what I thought and didn’t care what the Church taught. That was a sad moment. I became desperate and called the priest from the hospital when my wife was in labor. I didn’t realize she wasn’t scheduled to have anything done until weeks later. By her bedside, I prayed that this not happen and then she told me it wasn’t scheduled until later. That was the answer to my prayer.
When we got home, she said she didn’t care what I thought anymore. Whenever we discussed this she would get angry until finally we stopped talking. I just kept praying and kept my mouth shut until two weeks later she finally talked to me again. She forgave me and agreed to follow the Church teaching. A very emotional and happy moment. I think our marriage is stronger now. As I said earlier, I don’t know if I’m right or not or being faithful to Church teaching (though I would like to think so). I just felt that abstinence is better than the alternative.

I hope my story makes some sense.
God bless.
scalco
 
SCALCO said:
Ut> Good to hear from you again Scalco. I wonder what happened to Soc? I miss our debates with him.

I believe that we can go the route of abstinence, but my wife is too scared to risk it (she thinks that either I or her will be weak, and we will end up with a fifth). She is also post-partum. She has been for over three years now. She isn’t really capable of being positive about anything right now.

God bless,
Ut

Socrates is now known as Spockrates. He’s still active and gradually on his way to becoming Catholic. I was more of a lurker during those debates, but you and Pnuema07 are truly inspirational. I owe you a bit of thanks.

We were scared too. My selfishness caused my wife to be angry at me. She said she was going to make her decision regardless of what I thought and didn’t care what the Church taught. That was a sad moment. I became desperate and called the priest from the hospital when my wife was in labor. I didn’t realize she wasn’t scheduled to have anything done until weeks later. By her bedside, I prayed that this not happen and then she told me it wasn’t scheduled until later. That was the answer to my prayer.
When we got home, she said she didn’t care what I thought anymore. Whenever we discussed this she would get angry until finally we stopped talking. I just kept praying and kept my mouth shut until two weeks later she finally talked to me again. She forgave me and agreed to follow the Church teaching. A very emotional and happy moment. I think our marriage is stronger now. As I said earlier, I don’t know if I’m right or not or being faithful to Church teaching (though I would like to think so). I just felt that abstinence is better than the alternative.

I hope my story makes some sense.
God bless.
scalco
Click to expand...
Scalco - thanks for sharing this story. It pretty much sums up where I am at right now, only my wife hasn’t made the decision to abstain yet. She knows I don’t like the idea of an IUD, or getting a vasectomy. She agrees with me that we should at least give it a year before making any “final measures”. I told her that if she uses an IUD, I would still abstain (and probably more successfully because I would be afraid of destroying an innocent human being in the process). She agreed with that, but I think she would still want to use it as a protection against myself (or herself). The whole idea of being protected from a person you love is strange to me. I’ve listened to so many Christopher West lectures and read too much JPII’s theology of the body to talk myself into such a position. Anyway, I think like you, my option is to pray, pray, and pray - both for a change of attitude, a change in financial situation, an increase in hope, better emotional help, better ability to deal with the culture of death. It’s a tall order, but God will provide, I am sure, even now.

I intend to start attending first friday adorations again with these prayers in mind for the protection and health of my wife and my children.

God bless,
Ut

P.S. I have three boys and I tell you they are fun to have around. They are a handful, but they are the light in my life. I hope you are having as much fun with your kids as I am.
 
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