Outdoor Flagpole: American and Vatican Flags?

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JimmyV

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Hi all,

My children attend a catholic elementary school (grades 8 and 5). The PTA recently announced its intention to raise funds that will be used to replace the outdoor flagpole that stands in the front of the school building. The flagpole and landing are old and both need to be replaced. The flagpole is used to fly the American flag only.

My question: Should our school purchase and build two flagpoles, one to display the American flag and one to display the Vatican City flag? Do you think other catholic buildings: churches, schools, hospitals, etc. should display both flags?
 
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JimmyV:
Hi all,

My children attend a catholic elementary school (grades 8 and 5). The PTA recently announced its intention to raise funds that will be used to replace the outdoor flagpole that stands in the front of the school building. The flagpole and landing are old and both need to be replaced. The flagpole is used to fly the American flag only.

My question: Should our school purchase and build two flagpoles, one to display the American flag and one to display the Vatican City flag? Do you think other catholic buildings: churches, schools, hospitals, etc. should display both flags?
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if it were me, i would just fly the Vatican Flag beneath Old Glory…
should be fine, if not sure, but if i am wrong i’m sure you will here shortly… 👍
 
As long as “Old Glory” is flown higher, sounds fine. Putting Vatican flag under Old Glory would be cheaper, (no need for 2 poles).
 
two flagpoles, if you can afford it, sounds like a great idea. Every Catholic school should fly the Vatican flag IMHO. Otherwise, just fly the Vatican flag under the American flag on the same pole.
 
I STRONGLY disagree that the Vatican flag should be flown below the American flag on the same pole. That’s both bad protocol and highly disrespectful - even insulting to us as Catholics. When the flags of other nations are flown along with the flag of the USA, they are to be flown at the same level.

So I would say, yes, help to raise the money for a second flagpole so that both flags can be proudly flown together. Indeed, it would be most appropriate that Catholic institutions display both alongside each other.
 
I was told by someone a long time ago that the Vatican flag could only be flown by Vatican officials like nuncio’s. He may be wrong. I don’t know. :whistle:

Moe
 
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with flying the Vatican flag underneath the US flag… There’s nothing disrespectful about it! It’s not diminishing the importance of the Vatican (remember it’s the flag of the state, not the flag declaring God’s glory, not Jesus’ personal flag…) We have the Vatican’s flag beside the Canadian flag at the front of the study hall at my school.
 
I would think that since the Vatican flag is the standard of the pope that your school would not be entitled to display it on a regular basis unless your school is owned directly by the Vatican. There might be another “catholic” flag that you could fly rather than the Vatican’s. What about the standard of your diocese that operates the school? Ask someone in the diocesan office about it. Every diocese has its own coat of arms and thus its own flag.
 
I don’t know about the rules for the Vatican flag. I’ve seen churches fly it, and I think I remember it being on the stage at graduation.

For the US Flag, follow proper flag etiquette. You can also check with your local VFW hall.

usflag.org/flag.etiquette.html
 
The Vatican flag is often found in parish Churches. It also gets flown in front of places like diocesan offices. I don’t see why it couldn’t be flown by any Catholic institution. It’s basically a sign of pride and identity. No different than a Polish cultural organization might fly tha flag of Poland. Or an Irish or Italian or Jewish institution will fly the flag of their ethnic culture’s heritage.

There is nothing wrong with flying a secondary organization or causal flag under a national flag. However, flying a flag of a nation underneath another national flag is seen as a prideful putdown and, therefore, a definite no-no. Placing the Vatican flag under the American flag is an objective insult to the sovereign of the Vatican City State. It is akin to spitting in the face of the pope. I recognize that this would not be the intention in taking such an action, but it is what the symbolism indicates.
 
I agree. It sounds like a good idea, but it would have to be two flagpoles. From the flag etiquette posted above:
When flown with the national banner of other countries, each flag must be displayed from a separate pole of the same height. Each flag should be the same size. They should be raised and lowered simultaneously. The flag of one nation may not be displayed above that of another nation.
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Alan
 
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chicago:
I STRONGLY disagree that the Vatican flag should be flown below the American flag on the same pole. That’s both bad protocol and highly disrespectful - even insulting to us as Catholics. When the flags of other nations are flown along with the flag of the USA, they are to be flown at the same level.

So I would say, yes, help to raise the money for a second flagpole so that both flags can be proudly flown together. Indeed, it would be most appropriate that Catholic institutions display both alongside each other.
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Agreed. Heck, I would fly the Vatican flag higher, but I know I would get torched for that.
 
Thanks. Yes, it is my understanding that we would need two flagpoles of equal height, one for each flag. I agree that it is not proper to fly another county’s flag beneath the American flag (I’m not sure what the rule is for State flags, but that’s another topic).

So, I guess I have to do more research into this topic since it may not be proper to display the Vatican flag at all (thanks everyone). I’ll check with the diocesan office as The Hidden Life suggested.
 
The Vatican flag is not the flag of the whole Church, but the flag of a foreign power, an independent city-state that once had its own standing army. It would be theoretically possible to wage a just war against the Vatican under the right circumstances, so long as the intent is not to in any way physically harm the Pope himself.

The Vatican flag doesn’t represent the Church, but a foreign power ruled by the Pope. This is a somewhat subtle, but important distinction.

Incidentally, the Holy See has a separate flag that is different (although similar) to the Vatican flag.

I understand the sentiment of those who wish to display the Vatican flag, and I admire it, but I don’t think it is appropriate to display that flag in or near Catholic churches.
 
Is there a separate flag for the Holy See? Is there a “Catholic Flag”? Does anyone know where I can see one?
 
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ThyKingdomCome:
Is there a separate flag for the Holy See? Is there a “Catholic Flag”? Does anyone know where I can see one?
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Yes, there is indeed a Catholic flag.
It is simply yellow and white and is traditionally shown on Catholic holidays over here in the old world.
The difference to the Vatican’s flag is that the Vatican displays the Pope’s arms on the yellow and white flag.
http://www.kirchen-werneck.de/images/2000/20000622_fronleichnam/07.jpg
here is a pic from the Corpus Christi procession in a German small town, the yellow and white flags are quite typical for events like that. You can also see a blue stipe behind the flag in the upper right corner, that is from the Bavarian flag (blue and white)

Werner
 
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chicago:
I STRONGLY disagree that the Vatican flag should be flown below the American flag on the same pole. That’s both bad protocol and highly disrespectful - even insulting to us as Catholics. When the flags of other nations are flown along with the flag of the USA, they are to be flown at the same level.
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Chicago is correct here. The Vatican State is it’s own sovereign nation, and is thus to be flown on it’s own separate staff. To do otherwise is an insult to the Vatican State.

americanflagstore.com/etiquette/etiquette.htm
 
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Werner:
You can also see a blue stipe behind the flag in the upper right corner, that is from the Bavarian flag (blue and white)
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(I would never have thought that these fora would provide me the opportunity to post this!) In conversation with a Munich-born Bavarian some years ago, I made the mistake of referring to the colors of the Bavarian flag as blue and white. I was immediately corrected; the colors are white and blue!

I don’t know what the rules are for displaying Bavarian flags over an east-west street vs. over a north-south street vs. from a building-attached pole, but I do know that when the American flag is suspended over an east-west street the blue field is to the north (over a north-south street the blue field is to the east), and when the American flag is flying from a horizontal (or near-horizontal) pole attached to the side of a building the blue field is furthest from the building, at the “top” of the pole.

As for state flags, they can (indeed, ought to) be flown below the American flag if only one halyard is available.
 
You can fly the two flags at the same height so long as Old Glory is on the left as you look at it from its “front”. IOW, if the flags are displayed in front of a building, the viewer standing opposite should see OG on the left and the Vatican flag on the right, same height. If there are three poles with flags, OG goes in the center.

I knew that flag etiquette stuff would come in handy one day!

Blessings,

Nissa
 
Proper flag etiquette in the US is to fly the flag of a foreign nation below the US flag when on the same flagpole. If on separate poles the foreign flag is still displayed below the US standard.
As for the question of a flag for the Holy See, the Holy See is the diocese of Rome and I have never heard of a diocese having a flag. Vatican City, a sovereign nation, is separate from the diocese of Rome and of course has its own flag.

Matthew
 
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