Outraged!

[Tantum_ergo]

Maybe you should schedule a visit with the priest in a day or two. Think about a couple of ‘positive’ things that you can compliment him on in other areas, or at the least, some areas of common interest that you can enjoy discussing briefly. Then say something like, “Father, I appreciate all that you do for this parish. I know that the other day the key was not in the tabernacle and with all that was going on the ciborium did not get put away. I know you don’t ever want that to happen again. What can we do to make sure that it doesn’t. How can I, or others, help you best?”

This way he doesn’t feel defensive. . .he feels appreciated, he feels ‘empowered’, he feels like you’re part of his team. IOW, he feels good about himself and about you. So he is much more likely to at least think about it, “well, if the key isn’t there. . .” and you can do some brainstorming. “Hmm, should we let the acolytes or some other member know where the key is so that if the key is not in the tabernacle when you go to put the ciborium away, Father can nod or gesture to that person, that person can go and GET the key so Father can put the ciborium away”, etc. And then of course when things are decided, say something like, “This is such a good idea, Father; we’ll try it and let’s meet again in 2 weeks --or whatever–so we can see how it is working and if there are any changes we need to do to make it work best.” And thank him for his help, ask if there is anything else he might want to discuss, listen if he does, ask for his blessing, and then go pray.

And God bless you!

 

[anamchara]

Wedding coordinator??? No such animal where I come from.

Rules for weddings? None of those either. It’s a free-for-all, anything goes type of parish. You want a Shania Twain CD playing for the Offetory Procession? NO PROBLEM, just provide your own boom box.

Pictures? He set one wedding party facing the congregation, directly in front of the altar. From that vantage point they couldn’t even see the ambo for the readings. He did it “because it makes for better pictures”; my reply, “Yes, because we all know that the sacrament of Marriage is all about the pictures.”

oh dear, well if you don’t have the pastor setting the tone for respectful behavior in Church then what can you do?

I still can’t get over why people would act like that at a wedding though. coming and going, drinking coffee and soda? Sheesh!

 

[Phemie]

Maybe you should schedule a visit with the priest in a day or two.

I see him every day, or at least I do when he bothers to come to the office. He doesn’t want to be here, he made that quite clear from the get-go, “I didn’t want to be appointed pastor here and even though I’m here my role is strictly ‘crisis management’ and providing the sacraments. It’s your parish, it’s your responsibility.”

But for all that it’s “our responsibility”, if we try to implement rules according to Church documents or documents from the Conference of Bishops he won’t support us if it means that he has to say ‘no’ to someone.

Since he came the parish council has broken down, the finance council is for all intents and purposes non-existant, there’s no longer a liturgy committee, and he can’t be bothered to meet any of the kids preparing for sacraments. HE DOESN’T CARE.

Oh, and according to him, the wedding yesterday went very well, and it was just beautiful and the reception was just lovely. Dollars to donuts he talks about how beatiful the reception was in his next homily, a slap in the face to the couples from this parish whose receptions he refuses to attend.

 

[kage_ar]

“… It’s your parish, it’s your responsibility.”

It would seem the prudent thing then to have someone from staff or a volunteer step up and be the wedding coordinator, this person could also arrange to have things in place for Father at weddings (like the key to the tabernacle, etc.). Pastor has delegated that responsibility, someone should rise to that responsiblity.

Having responsibility for two parishes would be a tremendous work load, perhaps Father is overworked and needs a hand (or two or ten).

 

[Phemie]

It would seem the prudent thing then to have someone from staff or a volunteer step up and be the wedding coordinator, this person could also arrange to have things in place for Father at weddings (like the key to the tabernacle, etc.). Pastor has delegated that responsibility, someone should rise to that responsiblity.

Having responsibility for two parishes would be a tremendous work load, perhaps Father is overworked and needs a hand (or two or ten).

You don’t get it – it’s our responsibility if he doesn’t want to do stuff, but he wants to always be the ‘good guy’ so no matter what the Church says, if it means him saying ‘no’, it ain’t going to happen and that includes denying communion to known non-Catholics.

Like I said in another post, he’s made it MY reponsibility to see that he does the pre-nuptial investigations right. Now, I ask you, should the secretary be telling the pastor (who’s been a priest for 30+ years) how do to a pre-nup?? None of this was ever my responsibility and I don’t think it ever should be.

As for overworked, give me a break. He won’t do visits without a personal invitation, he won’t sit in the confessional for 30 minutes before Mass, and he finds time to be a substitute teacher, sometimes for weeks at a time, so that he can pay off his VISA bill.

 

[anamchara]

I see him every day, or at least I do when he bothers to come to the office. He doesn’t want to be here, he made that quite clear from the get-go, “I didn’t want to be appointed pastor here and even though I’m here my role is strictly ‘crisis management’ and providing the sacraments. It’s your parish, it’s your responsibility.”

But for all that it’s “our responsibility”, if we try to implement rules according to Church documents or documents from the Conference of Bishops he won’t support us if it means that he has to say ‘no’ to someone.

Since he came the parish council has broken down, the finance council is for all intents and purposes non-existant, there’s no longer a liturgy committee, and he can’t be bothered to meet any of the kids preparing for sacraments. HE DOESN’T CARE.

Oh, and according to him, the wedding yesterday went very well, and it was just beautiful and the reception was just lovely. Dollars to donuts he talks about how beatiful the reception was in his next homily, a slap in the face to the couples from this parish whose receptions he refuses to attend.

This really doesn’t sound good at all. How sad. It sounds like you work at the parish so you would probably know more about who to contact in cases like this but if it were me I’d call the diocese office and ask them for help/advice on how to proceed and who I should talk to. I suppose it’s his right to just give sacraments and nothing else but how much damage has he caused? And is this sort of thing allowed? That would be my question.

I would inquire and find out more.

 

[Miserissima]

Phemie,

I just have no words to offer in what’s already been said here.

But I am praying for you and your parish!!!

:hug1:

 

[anamchara]

if it means him saying ‘no’, it ain’t going to happen and that includes denying communion to known non-Catholics.

Now this we all know is wrong so that would be something I’d bring up.

Like I said in another post, he’s made it MY reponsibility to see that he does the pre-nuptial investigations right. Now, I ask you, should the secretary be telling the pastor (who’s been a priest for 30+ years) how do to a pre-nup?? None of this was ever my responsibility and I don’t think it ever should be.

 

[1ke]

Clearly you have tried talking with him to no avail.

I’d make an appointment to speak to the Bishop about ALL the issues. Make a list of everything that is going on.

This is very serious.

 

[Phemie]

You should look over your job description and inquire about what a pastor can ask of you, if this is not allowed then I would let him know you will no longer do this as it is not part of your job. Of course being a Church secretary might be different from where I work in a school district with a strong union.

 

[lottied]

oh my goodness, please do make sure you tell the bishop, try to talk to your pastor and pray for him because whilst he has done a terrible thing and does need to be corrected, but he also is probably in need of support too- try to do it in a loving way, immitate Jesus and pray for the Bishop so that the Lord may work through him and minister to your pastor.

 

[Spiller]

Say what?? Hosts are brought up in procession at the offertory in a ciborium.

– Sorry – you’re right according to the GIRM. Hosts are supposed to be presented & consecrated on a paten. I’ve just never seen it. It’s always been a ciborium in any parish where they did the offertory procession. How do you process 300+ hosts on a paten??

A ciborium is FINE to use for the procession of hosts.

 

[Spiller]

The church was a mess, water bottles, pop cans and coffee cups everywhere, hymnals on the floor, garbage cans overflowing.

Why do you have garbage cans in your church? You allow coffee and soda inside of your church?

Then from the back of the church I spotted it, the ciborium sitting outside the Tabernacle. Hoping against hope I rushed to the front to find a full ciborium sitting there. There was no mistaking the fact that the Blessed Sacrament had just been left out after Communion. I got the key and placed the ciborium in the Tabernacle.

Hardcore bad. The more I hear stories like this the more I think it’s intentional. Think about it – NO ONE celebrating/serving the Mass could possibly make that mistake.

I’m now so angry I don’t know what to do. I can’t believe my pastor would be so careless. First he tells his superior that it’s my responsibility to see that he has the pre-nuptial investigation done right – when the heck did I get ordained? – and now he can’t even be trusted to treat the Blessed Sacrament properly.

Write the bishop and copy your pastor on the letter.

He’s our pastor and categorically refuses to attend a wedding reception for anyone from our parish. Today’s wedding was for a couple from the parish for which he’s administrator and guess where he was – yes, the reception. Guess he was so excited about that that he couldn’t wait long enough to replace the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle.

Color me OUTRAGED!

Who celebrated the Mass? If it was him, something sounds very amiss…

In general terms, your parish sound like it’s out of control.

 

[Spiller]

As I understand it, a ciborium is a chalice-looking vessel for the storing and distributing of consecrated hosts. A paten is a very flat disc-shaped vessel for presenting unconsecrated hosts and catching the particles that fall; it also holds the consecrated host for a short time. Then there are communion “bowls”, although I don’t know what they’re really called. They’re not traditional ciboria, they’re not patens… they’re bowl-like things. In my parish, however, they hold both the unconsecrated hosts brought up during the offertory, and the consecrated hosts in the tabernacle.

So you’d never know just by the vessel holding them whether they’re consecrated or not!

Those “bowls” could easily be called ciboria OR patens.

 

[Sarabande]

I see him every day, or at least I do when he bothers to come to the office. He doesn’t want to be here, he made that quite clear from the get-go, “I didn’t want to be appointed pastor here and even though I’m here my role is strictly ‘crisis management’ and providing the sacraments. It’s your parish, it’s your responsibility.”

But for all that it’s “our responsibility”, if we try to implement rules according to Church documents or documents from the Conference of Bishops he won’t support us if it means that he has to say ‘no’ to someone.

Since he came the parish council has broken down, the finance council is for all intents and purposes non-existant, there’s no longer a liturgy committee, and he can’t be bothered to meet any of the kids preparing for sacraments. HE DOESN’T CARE.

Oh, and according to him, the wedding yesterday went very well, and it was just beautiful and the reception was just lovely. Dollars to donuts he talks about how beatiful the reception was in his next homily, a slap in the face to the couples from this parish whose receptions he refuses to attend.

Oh my!!! I don’t have much more to add, but to say how sorry I am that you are in this situation. I agree with the others. Write to your Bishop and write everything down with dates regarding other things this pastor has done - especially write about this wedding and the aftermath.

This reminds me of a parish I used to work for. It was wonderful at first, then a new pastor came in and threw it out of control. Among many other things, he’d allow the lectors (who were literally his “groupies” following him from parish to parish - not even the parishioners) to come up with the cups of Starbucks coffee in their hands while they read. Then some parishioners started to think it was “ok” to do these things since the pastor allowed it and was so “cool”. It wasn’t like that before - very reverent parish prior to that. The other pastor was strict, but he was a good soul and was sincerely devoted the parish, God and the parishioners. This guy was all about himself and how to look with the times.

So, I totally feel for your situation as well. :console: For me, it was just easy to quit since it wasn’t my parish and his antics were just making me miserable. I don’t know if you would consider quitting, or will you be the brave soul to fight on till the end? I’ll pray for you, the pastor and the parish.

 

[Spiller]

I have to revise my advice.

I would write-up this incident as a stand-alone report. I would be exceedingly thorough and as charitable as possible. Footnote it but don’t add your own commentary.

Send it to your pastor with a cover letter with gentle language telling him the matter will be elevated to your bishop in ten (10) days if he doesn’t take concrete action.

If he doesn’t take steps to fix the problem once and for all, attach a new cover letter to the report and the first cover letter and mail it to your bishop.

 

[anamchara]

Phemie,

I found a similar question like yours that Fr. Serpa answered. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3857104#post3857104

I don’t know if that is the case with your pastor but it does sound like something is gravely wrong.

I hope that helps.

 

[THurifer2]

Say what?? Hosts are brought up in procession at the offertory in a ciborium.

– Sorry – you’re right according to the GIRM. Hosts are supposed to be presented & consecrated on a paten. I’ve just never seen it. It’s always been a ciborium in any parish where they did the offertory procession. How do you process 300+ hosts on a paten??

If the procession vessel is used as a ciborium then ablutions must be done to it after every mass just as the rest of the sacred vessels if the contents are not transferred before consecration.

FYI the offertory does not require a paten. The presentation is not part of the offertory…the presentation is done by the priest.And patens come in various sizes. Our parish has an offertory bowl (made out of clay which is OK becuase it is just bread) that could easily hold 500 hosts if needed.

 

[THurifer2]

Wedding coordinator??? No such animal where I come from.

."

I would have to say at least half the parishes in North American have never even heard of a wedding coordinator. In my rural midwest state I would have to say that 99.9% of the parishes here don’t have such a position. nearly half of the parishes in my diocese have a full time secretary and just a handful have a catechist…Almost everything is done on volunteer basis. My childhood parish has no secretary and the priest lives at a neighboring parish 25 miles away…on the average day the church door is locked…Catholicism is really dwindling in some areas.

When weddings happen around here it is the priest and the wedding party . the priest is entirely in charge of the wedding liturgy…it is up to the family to hire organists and even Altar servers…there just isn’t the manpower or money in some places to have such staff around. My mothers church had a Sunday collection of 130 dollars last week…it used to be a rather large church with 400 families…now it is down to 85 or so…thanks to the modernist/feminists who “took over” in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

 

[THurifer2]

A ciborium is FINE to use for the procession of hosts.

Perhaps where you live but in my diocese it is forbidden by the bishop. He makes it very clear that consecrated hosts should be the only thing that goes into a ciborium. There is an EXTREMELY good reason for his insistance (written to all diocesan clergy inlcuding those pesky scourge of SOciety deacons…)…it is to ensure that we KNOW what is in the ciborium…bread vs. The King of the Universe.