Outside the Church No Salvation? Really?

[steve_b]

pat4mary:

*I believe the reason they say ‘Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation’ is because of the sacraments which give grace. Do the other faiths have sacraments? *

pnewton:

Yes, they do. Baptism is a valid sacrament in most other Christian denominations. Marriage can be a valid sacrament. A few churchs (like the Easterm Orthodox) have a valid Eucharist.

[Gal 5:19-21] includes factions[divisions] in a list of sins as being a [mortal]deadly sin. Why deadly(mortal) vs non deadly(venial)?[1 Jn 5:16…] Because as Paul says, one who lives divided can’t inherit heaven. And any sin that can keep one out of heaven is deadly (mortal). But divided from what? Divided from the one and only Church Jesus says He builds on Peter Mt 16:17…]. That person is divided in a serious way because as Paul says, it is a sign one is acting out on their sinful nature. … As Paul would also say, people who divide from the Church, live contrary to what the apostles taught, and are not serving Our Lord Jesus Christ but their own appetites. [Rm 16:17-18] As Jesus said, they who don’t gather with me scatter[Mt 12:30]. A quick way the Early Church summed up Jesus and Paul was to say ‘Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation’

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

**846 "**How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

 

[Catholic4aReasn]

Berean:

As a non Roman Catholic I believe in the Apostolic Catholic church but I don’t believe upon the Roman Catholic Church for my salvation. I believe upon Jesus the Rock of my salvation.

Hi Berean!

All Catholics (Roman and otherwise) believe that salvation is through Jesus Christ. This whole topic is SOOOOO misunderstood!!!

In Christ,
Nancy

 

[CatholicCrusade]

“No one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he hath remained within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Chuch.” Council of Florence

PERIOD, end of sentence, no qualification needed.

Fr. Muller was published by the Holy See. His writings certainly, then, of valid Catholic teaching.

The letter from the Holy Office is not an infallible proclamation. The Council of Florence is.

Liberalism is a sin. It’s a good book, and it’s ones of the truest things I have ever heard. Never err on the side of a liberal anything, especially “interpretation” of the Church’s teaching.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

“No one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he hath remained within the bosom and unity of the Catholic Chuch.” Council of Florence

PERIOD, end of sentence, no qualification needed.

Fr. Muller was published by the Holy See. His writings certainly, then, of valid Catholic teaching.

The letter from the Holy Office is not an infallible proclamation. The Council of Florence is.

Liberalism is a sin. It’s a good book, and it’s ones of the truest things I have ever heard. Never err on the side of a liberal anything, especially “interpretation” of the Church’s teaching.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church (which is not a letter form the Holy Office, I might add) and the expansion upon the doctrine of EENS.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

steve b:
[Gal 5:19-21] includes factions[divisions] in a list of sins as being a [mortal]deadly sin. Why deadly(mortal) vs non deadly(venial)?[1 Jn 5:16…] Because as Paul says, one who lives divided can’t inherit heaven. And any sin that can keep one out of heaven is deadly (mortal). But divided from what? Divided from the one and only Church Jesus says He builds on Peter Mt 16:17…]. That person is divided in a serious way because as Paul says, it is a sign one is acting out on their sinful nature. … As Paul would also say, people who divide from the Church, live contrary to what the apostles taught, and are not serving Our Lord Jesus Christ but their own appetites. [Rm 16:17-18] As Jesus said, they who don’t gather with me scatter[Mt 12:30]. A quick way the Early Church summed up Jesus and Paul was to say ‘Outside of the Catholic Church there is no salvation’

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

**846 "**How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it."

And the key word up there might be KNOWING. Protestants might well point out that they don’t “know” anything of the kind, and, in fact, they “know” lots of things to the contrary. “Know” here seems to mean “be convinced of,” wouldn’t you say?

 

[steve_b]

Berean:

Isn’t this a bit redundant? “All men are called to this **catholic (means universal which would imply unity) **unity of the People of God”… As a non Roman Catholic I believe in the Apostolic Catholic church but I don’t believe upon the Roman Catholic Church for my salvation. I believe upon Jesus the Rock of my salvation.

If you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church you won’t find "Roman" as a qualifier. There is only one Catholic Church, and it is headquarted in Rome where the successor to Peter resides. That is the Church Jesus promises to build.*** [Mt 16:17…]*** Peter is given the keys to the kingdom as prime minister. And is directed by Jesus to feed and rule His Church [Jn 21:15-17] And Peter’s successors are the popes of Rome.

The faith of this Church at Rome has been heard throughout the world [Rm 1:7] and those who divide from her are not serving Our Lord Jesus Christ but their own appetites. [Rm 16:17-18] And those who live by their sinful appetites to divide, will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. [Gal 5:19-21]

As the early Church summed it up simply,

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

Paragraph #847 isn’t meant as an escape clause. God knows who knows and who is pretending not to know.

 

[steve_b]

JKirkLVNV:

And the key word up there might be KNOWING. Protestants might well point out that they don’t “know” anything of the kind, and, in fact, they “know” lots of things to the contrary. “Know” here seems to mean “be convinced of,” wouldn’t you say?

I agree.