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srkbdk
Guest
Great quote kind of like if you do not follow what he says you are not indeed following him.
Glad we have a church that does not pick and choose what God taught but teaches all that he taught.
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Glad we have a church that does not pick and choose what God taught but teaches all that he taught.
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Vincent
Guest
A prominent cardinal says that “pastoral” refers to feeding the flock of Christ with the Word of God. Therefore, there is no dichotomy between what is pastoral and what is dogmatic, as there is no pasturing without the solid food of doctrine. For this reason, the cardinal observes, it was no surprise that Vatican II, a pastoral Council, promulgated two Dogmatic Constitutions.
In any case, this discussion deserves its own thread.
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Dr_Paul
Guest
Many in this forum have shared how they believed in one religion and then “saw the light” and either entered into the Catholic Church or left it for something else. Not all were converting to other Christistian denominations. Yes, if you believe in Jesus you will be saved. But the Bible does not say if you believed in Jesus at some point in your life, it does not matter whether you still believe in Him when you die, you will be saved. Ah, but you will probably say, “once you believe you can never turn away. Those who do turn away never really believed”. Then in the end, you are stuck with the same probability problem. i.e. Is my belief really true?
Yes, Homer, I have read my bible and I have listened to what I said. I, together with Christ’s church, do hold to the value in receiving grace through the sacraments so that at the end of my life I can say “I have competed well, I have finished the race. I have **kept **the faith” 2Ti4:7
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Dr_Paul
Guest
Many in this forum have shared how they believed in one religion and then “saw the light” and either entered into the Catholic Church or left it for something else. Not all were converting to other Christistian denominations. Yes, if you believe in Jesus you will be saved. But the Bible does not say if you believed in Jesus at some point in your life, it does not matter whether you still believe in Him when you die, you will be saved. Ah, but you will probably say, “once you believe you can never turn away. Those who do turn away never really believed”. Then in the end, you are stuck with the same probability problem. i.e. Is my belief really true?
Yes, Homer, I have read my bible and I have listened to what I said. I, together with Christ’s church, do hold to the value in receiving grace through the sacraments so that at the end of my life I can say “I have competed well, I have finished the race. I have **kept **the faith” 2Ti4:7
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homer
Guest
Amarkich, (No one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church. -Ecumenical Council of Florence (infallible)).
This is so wrong and contradicts the teaching of the Christ that I can’t even find the words to reply.
I will pray for you.
This is so wrong and contradicts the teaching of the Christ that I can’t even find the words to reply.
I will pray for you.
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Stylite
Guest
I know this is the 4th time Ive posted this link today, but it does such a good job answering the Feenyite controversy that it’s woth posting again. And yes, it covers the Council of Florence.
catholicculture.org/docs/most/getchap.cfm?WorkNum=232&ChapNum=28
catholicculture.org/docs/most/getchap.cfm?WorkNum=232&ChapNum=28
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George_M
Guest
I believe when and if I do get to heaven God isn’t going to as what religion I am. He’s going to ask me if I believed in what he did and that Jesus was raised from the dead. Just like the bible says I’ll be saved. George
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Stylite
Guest
George, what do you mean by “believed”? More than intellectual assent, I hope. Even the demons believe intellectually in Jesus. Might the “belief” referred to in Scripture also connote obedience?
God Bless,
Stylite
God Bless,
Stylite
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George_M
Guest
John 3:16
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dcmac
Guest
"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns, or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits.
"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7: 13-29
How much more obvious does one need it than this; from the Mouth of the Lord? Here God Himself tells you that faith alone is not justification and no matter how much protesting you put forth, you will not deter Him in His Righteous judgement.
Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future prirest,
Donnchadh
"Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’
“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”
And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, for he taught them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
Matthew 7: 13-29
How much more obvious does one need it than this; from the Mouth of the Lord? Here God Himself tells you that faith alone is not justification and no matter how much protesting you put forth, you will not deter Him in His Righteous judgement.
Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future prirest,
Donnchadh
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dcmac
Guest
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”
Philippians 2: 12 &13
And from Paul we read we need to work out our salvation.
“So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander. Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation.”
1 Peter 2: 1 & 2
And from Peter we read we need to grow up [in]to our salvation.
"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe–and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2: 14-26
And here James drives home Jesus’ comments mentioned above!
The is no salvation through faith alone. And yes you can loose your salvation. Christ Himself tells you so…read Matthew above…
Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh
Philippians 2: 12 &13
And from Paul we read we need to work out our salvation.
“So put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander. Like newborn babes, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up to salvation.”
1 Peter 2: 1 & 2
And from Peter we read we need to grow up [in]to our salvation.
"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe–and shudder. Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works, and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead."
James 2: 14-26
And here James drives home Jesus’ comments mentioned above!
The is no salvation through faith alone. And yes you can loose your salvation. Christ Himself tells you so…read Matthew above…
Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh
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Stylite
Guest
George,
Yes, John 3:16 is one of the most beautiful passages of Scripture. We Catholics also believe that man can do nothing apart from God. However, we do not believe in “faith alone” if you mean it to be only intellectual belief. As I said before, even the demons have this kind of non-saving faith. The saving faith Paul speaks of implies obedience. Note that James does not contradict Paul when he says “Faith without works is dead…” James is condemning the purely intellectual faith that Luther seems to have espoused, while Paul is affirming saving faith which includes our receptivity to God’s Grace. Please correct me, more knowledgeable Catholics, if there is an error here.
I think the main separation between Catholics and Protestants is not so much over “faith alone” but more over what saving grace actually imparts to man.
Yes, John 3:16 is one of the most beautiful passages of Scripture. We Catholics also believe that man can do nothing apart from God. However, we do not believe in “faith alone” if you mean it to be only intellectual belief. As I said before, even the demons have this kind of non-saving faith. The saving faith Paul speaks of implies obedience. Note that James does not contradict Paul when he says “Faith without works is dead…” James is condemning the purely intellectual faith that Luther seems to have espoused, while Paul is affirming saving faith which includes our receptivity to God’s Grace. Please correct me, more knowledgeable Catholics, if there is an error here.
I think the main separation between Catholics and Protestants is not so much over “faith alone” but more over what saving grace actually imparts to man.
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