Outside the Church there is no salvation

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from the Catechism of Mother Church:

II. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRADITION AND SACRED SCRIPTURE

One common source. . .

80 "Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."40 Each of them makes present and fruitful in the Church the mystery of Christ, who promised to remain with his own “always, to the close of the age”.41

. . . two distinct modes of transmission

[81](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/81.htm’)😉 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42

"And [Holy] *Tradition *transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43 82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44

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We are people of the WORD, and not just of the BOOK. PRAISE JESUS for our CHURCH.
 
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mike182d:
Is it a boy in Africa, who never received the gospel, but lived a life of virtue before dying?
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noble savage myth in sight?
 
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piety101:
There is no salvation apart from Christ, Catholic catechism or no Catholic catechism. Acts 4:11-12. Buddha won’t save.Confucius won’t save and Allah won’t save. 👍
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The Catechism does not contradict your statement. Still it is never a good idea to casually reject the teaching of the Church based on one’s personal interpretation of Scripture.
 
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piety101:
There is no salvation apart from Christ, Catholic catechism or no Catholic catechism. Acts 4:11-12. Buddha won’t save.Confucius won’t save and Allah won’t save. 👍
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the following is what i posted on another thread, “is there a hell?”
"This is from Pius IX’s Encyclical Quanto Conficiam Moerore (better rely on secure sources)
7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.
8. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom “the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior.”[4] The words of Christ are clear enough: “If he refuses to listen even to the Church, let him be to you a Gentile and a tax collector;”[5] “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you, rejects me, and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me;”[6] “He who does not believe will be condemned;”[7] “He who does not believe is already condemned;”[8] “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.”[9] The Apostle Paul says that such persons are “perverted and self-condemned;”[10] the Prince of the Apostles calls them “false teachers . . . who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master. . . bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”[11]
9. God forbid that the children of the Catholic Church should even in any way be unfriendly to those who are not at all united to us by the same bonds of faith and love. On the contrary, let them be eager always to attend to their needs with all the kind services of Christian charity, whether they are poor or sick or suffering any other kind of visitation. First of all, let them rescue them from the darkness of the errors into which they have unhappily fallen and strive to guide them back to Catholic truth and to their most loving Mother who is ever holding out her maternal arms to receive them lovingly back into her fold. Thus, firmly founded in faith, hope, and charity and fruitful in every good work, they will gain eternal salvation.
"
 
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barsapp:
noble savage myth in sight?
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Nothing wrong, is there, with believing that Christ offers a means of accepting Him to everyone–whether an aborted person or a first century North American?

Peace.
John

Ahh…I see from your last post, I think, that we’re in agreement.
 
Piety does not have faith in the teachings of the Church, only faith in the Holy Scripture. This is not being an obedient daughter or son of the Mother Church. I prefer to practice as a Catholic - a person of the WORD .👍
 
john ennis:
Nothing wrong, is there…
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i was only thinking about some ideas behind the “noble savage myth”, as man does by nature tend to good, etc, etc. Hard to believe, taking into account original sin…
 
LSK
Nope, salvation lies in Christ as both the New Testament and the church once believed for a thousand years. There is NO SALVATION outside of faith in Jesus Christ. Ignorance is no excuse. You may be right about certain liberals who have crept into the modern Catholic church who teach and write, one can possibly obtain salvation and eternal life apart from Christ. But they are no better than you, an out and out heretic for teaching such lies.
 
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piety101:
LSK
But they are no better than you, an out and out heretic for teaching such lies.
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He was mostly quoting the catechism. Where do you come up with such an outrageous accusation?
 
Simple, anyone or group that does not affirm what the early church, including the orthodox church fathers taught, is guilty of heresy. The modern church cannot alter what the early church taught and most died for. 👍
 
Hi Piety,

I brought this up earlier. Maybe you could read my post (#43) and comment on it.

May God bless,

James224
 
To James 224
Code: 
                   Baptism of desire was usually accepted for those believers in Christ who for some unforeseen circumstance met an untimely death before they could be baptized, such as martyrdom. But these people BELIEVED in Christ to begin with and were not ignorant heathen serving pagan gods, whether human or mythic. That is the point.

                   The church fathers never taught salvation was possible outside Christ or the Catholic church for that matter. This is an invention of liberals in Rome for ecumenical reasons. 

                     One can read the New testament and the writings of the early church fathers many, many times and not once will you find that they wrote salvation and eternal life was obtainable apart from faith in Christ and his church. There are of course liberal heretics on this forum who do not believe this, but church history and the New Testament speaks for itself. 

                       You, yourself must decide the importance of trusting in Christ and the sacraments of the Catholic church. Are they truly essential for your salvation and eternal life? If they are, then stand strong in the faith once delivered to the early church and do not be deceived by modern day heretics that have entered into the church. :)
 
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piety101:
Simple, anyone or group that does not affirm what the early church, including the orthodox church fathers taught, is guilty of heresy. The modern church cannot alter what the early church taught and most died for. 👍
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There is no contradiction between what the church teaches today and what it has always taught as dogma. Doctrinal development is always an on-going process, but there is no contradiction. There are some that do believe the church has left changed dogma and are now outside the church outside of which there is no salvation. This was done by the Holy Father is not my worthless opinion. It is a good thing that only Rome can ex-communicate and every individual Catholic can not define what he perceives as heresy.
 
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piety101:
Simple, anyone or group that does not affirm what the early church, including the orthodox church fathers taught, is guilty of heresy. The modern church cannot alter what the early church taught and most died for. 👍
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Ironically, one of the unmistakable teachings of the Church Fathers is that one’s beliefs must be in conformity with the visible and identifiable Church headed by Peter. Anyone who denies doctrine that is proclaimed by the magisterium is in error. If you say that “liberal Rome” has deviated from orthodox teaching, you believe something which the Fathers never would have believed.

Peace.
John
 
By the way, why can’t someone agree that there is no salvation outside of the Church and outside of faith in Christ, and still hold that Christ provides a means for a first century American (or an invincibly ignorant Muslim) to be saved in a manner that agrees with the above conditions, but is not known to us?Does anyone know that a Jew or Muslim, at his judgment, necessarily has no faith in Christ? Is it possible that he will have been given the opportunity, in a way we don’t see?

To quote Brian Wilson, “God only knows…”
If this seems unlikely, perhaps Christ didn’t die for all?

Peace.
John
 
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piety101:
Simple, anyone or group that does not affirm what the early church, including the orthodox church fathers taught, is guilty of heresy. The modern church cannot alter what the early church taught and most died for. 👍
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Luckily for me I know what is heresy and what is not - I am an Obedient Daughter of the Church and you are not the magisterium or the Pope so your opinion of me is not one I will even consider. I will, however, continue to pray that you come back to the fullness of the faith instead of insisting on being right instead of being obedient.👍
 
john ennis:
By the way, why can’t someone agree that there is no salvation outside of the Church and outside of faith in Christ, and still hold that Christ provides a means for a first century American (or an invincibly ignorant Muslim) to be saved in a manner that agrees with the above conditions, but is not known to us?Does anyone know that a Jew or Muslim, at his judgment, necessarily has no faith in Christ? Is it possible that he will have been given the opportunity, in a way we don’t see?

To quote Brian Wilson, “God only knows…”
If this seems unlikely, perhaps Christ didn’t die for all?

Peace.
John
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Exactly, John. We adhere to the teachings of the CCC and we put our complete faith and trust in the Lord. The Mother Church teaches correctly, not Piety.
 
john ennis:
By the way, why can’t someone agree that there is no salvation outside of the Church and outside of faith in Christ, and still hold that Christ provides a means for a first century American (or an invincibly ignorant Muslim) to be saved in a manner that agrees with the above conditions, but is not known to us?Does anyone know that a Jew or Muslim, at his judgment, necessarily has no faith in Christ? Is it possible that he will have been given the opportunity, in a way we don’t see?

To quote Brian Wilson, “God only knows…”
If this seems unlikely, perhaps Christ didn’t die for all?

Peace.
John
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It may be possible, but it seems in recent times too many have taken such things to mean that indifferentism is licit. The zeal for evangelization has been lost too often because we over emphasize that it may be possible for those outside the visible Church to be saved with the same certainty of a Catholic dying in a state of grace.
 
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