Outside the Church you're going to hell?

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Odd Title I know. This is really a continuation of an earlier thread “Outside the Church There is not Salvation”. With the answer from that previous thread what would be some scripture to support it? Something adiquate that the Fundamentalist that I am talking to would be satisfied. Thanks and God bless.
 
Montie_Claunch said:
Odd Title I know. This is really a continuation of an earlier thread “Outside the Church There is not Salvation”. With the answer from that previous thread what would be some scripture to support it? Something adiquate that the Fundamentalist that I am talking to would be satisfied. Thanks and God bless.
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One thing to point out to a Fundamentalist is that they have actually considered that same question, but not in the same way. Fundamentalists ask if there is salvation apart from faith in Christ. Catholics ask if there is salvation apart from the Church. In a sense, the questions are not so different.
 
Do not let fundamentalists dictate the battleground. If you limit youself to only those things which fundamentalists accept (which is just the Bible for most) you will find yourself walking on dangerous ground. Do not allow them to eliminate the testimony of history, contemporaneous sources, and any other valid source. The problem is that most fundamentalists don’t understand the Catholic Church, it is not that they hate the Catholic Church, but that they hate the image that they have of it.

For a fundamentalist it may be best to approach it from the idea of the body of Christ. If the church is the body of Christ than it follows that being cut off from the church is to be cut off from the body of Christ and hence to be spiritually dead. This, however, will only work if one can make the logic plainly clear and undeniable. From here you could then reenter the argument dealing with whether the Catholic church is the One True Church.
 
I dont believe all outside people will go to hell! That is foolish and presumptuous to guess what is in Gods thoughts! NONE of us know his mercy and love after death! We can only guess! But it is not good to guess the knowings of what God may or may not do! imho
 
Instead of just saying Yes outright, say this is complicated as God is infinitely merciful so give me a minute to explain as this before I offend you as many people misunderstand this.

Then explain…

We cannot water it down to just make people feel good but we can explain it to prove that truth actually matters to God and that He is merciful.

SpaceGirl, I don’t believe all outside people will go to Hell either, but very, very few will be saved. For this reason.
Even inside the Church there is many people who are damned, by their own choices. They prefer to go to Hell than Heaven and they are Catholic!

We all choose where we will be going and God in his love allows us to reject His will and choose ours.

Now if it matters what we believe, then we should believe what God defined to honestly follow Him. Not what I prefer to believe but what God says. So we need to follow Jesus.

God has the power to let everyone have a chance in any way to choose Jesus even if it is at the moment of death, yet we are commanded to share the love and salvation of Jesus with everyone.
Most people will choose the easy route, their personal preferences, pleasure, a god of their own invention, etc…
True humility is seeking God and submitting to what He is, not what you feel like submitting to.
So God allows those who seem to be many, to choose to reject Him as they prefer not to be with a real God.

So what the doctrine really affirms is that truth matters, God loves us enough to give us the opportunity to choose Him and we either choose God or we don’t.

In Christ
Scylla
 
But_for_Grace said:
Do not let fundamentalists dictate the battleground. If you limit youself to only those things which fundamentalists accept (which is just the Bible for most) you will find yourself walking on dangerous ground. Do not allow them to eliminate the testimony of history, contemporaneous sources, and any other valid source. The problem is that most fundamentalists don’t understand the Catholic Church, it is not that they hate the Catholic Church, but that they hate the image that they have of it.
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What would be the best stratigy to talk to them than? Sacred Tradition? The Early Church? I would I go about talking to this person about this subject then? Thanks and God bless.
 
Montie,

Is this the same Fundamentalist who takes issue with the quote in the Catechism that “the plan of salvation includes other monotheists, chief among whom are the Muslims”? If so, you could ask him to make up his mind as to whether the Church is being too broad or too narrow.
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The best thing that you can do with a fundamentalist like that is focus on Jesus. Most likely he has bought into all that junk that Catholics worship Mary, don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus and don’t read the Bible.

First prove him wrong by focusing the conversation on Jesus, you need to prove that he has been lied to. If you allow him to steer the conversation he will just focus on mis-understandings of the Catholic faith. There are a million wrong objections to the Catholic faith and answering 1 or 10 of them proves nothing, just that he misunderstood some aspects of the faith.

Focus first on Jesus then on making sure he understands that every single question you answer, proves a false understanding of the faith. Basing your objections on lies shows that the faith which objects is based on a false rejection of Catholicism which isn’t then true Christianity. True Christianity is based on truth so focus on Jesus and that will steer you in the right apologetic path.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Montie Claunch - it would really have to depend on how the person you are talking to is. most people lean closer on one topic than another to the Catholic point of view. this can be a starting point.
 
Simply, Outside the Church will not have the great advocate that is the Christ, for he said that they that deny him he will himself deny. They will then be judged according to their deeds.
 
Montie_Claunch said:
This is really a continuation of an earlier thread “Outside the Church There is not Salvation”. With the answer from that previous thread what would be some scripture to support it? Something adiquate that the Fundamentalist that I am talking to would be satisfied.
Click to expand...
First of all, you should know what the church teaches specifically about those outside the Catholic Church. Read the Catechism, sections 839 - 848. Why yes it is true that “Outside the Church there is no salvation”, you should read, for example, # 847, “This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:” It is probably not necessary to even refer to scripture if a proper understanding of the Church’s teachings is understood.
 
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