Overbearing Musical Priest

[pianistclare]

Hi, pianistclare. I’m the OP (not a Dominican haha). This is exactly what’s going on! I just don’t know what to say or if anything should be said at all. We have only two cantons and one is on the verge of giving up because of how we’ve been tossed aside like garbage. People here are accusing me of being disobedient. I know that I am in some ways - it’s a slight imperfection, I AM a sinner after all. It’s depressing.

Some poor little parish with no music is awaiting your arrival.
Take heart. Play for the love of the Lord, and sing your hearts out.
There is a place for you,… it may not have great acoustics, or wonderful hymnals, but someone will understand your desire to serve through music and welcome you to music ministry. (gee, I could tell you stories )
St. Cecilia and St. Gregory the Great…pray for us!

 

[Murmurs]

As an occasional organist, in a church with a musically involved (too-involved?) priest, I can entirely sympathise.

This is a small crumb of comfort, but your kind of predicament is one common to church musicians of ever age and every denomination. Consider the following passage written 170 years ago in an Anglican magazine targeted at musical clergymen or and would-be church musicians. (I just want to tell myself that my undergrad dissertation wasn’t wasted by recalling a quotation now!):

“Next to the sanction of the incumbent [clergyman], the most essential acquisition to start with, is a precentor [music director] - one who by his firm yet courteous deportment may exercise some control over the organist; a functionary not unfailingly selected for his restrained or nice sense of ecclesiastical propriety.” - The Parish Choir I,vi, Oct. 1845). (original underlining)

Which is to say, the clergy love getting involved in the music in their parish (and who can blame them? All the churches have some fantastic music after all) - sometimes from having their own select views of “propriety” in the musical department which might not quite match anyone else’s.

This doesn’t help you much, and your situation is worse - or at least more embarrassing - than your priest simply having a line-item veto over the music list. It may or may not be appropriate to mention how you feel about this to him, depending on your relationship (and how others feel!).

But I also agree with pianistclare - there will be a parish close by to you I’m sure who would bend over backwards to welcome you!

May St Cecilia pray for you as you work out the best way to use your talents in service.

 

[felsguy]

Then I’m sorry to play the politician, but you may have a bargaining chip. I hate to suggest holding anyone hostage, especially your parish and your pastor, but you may have a position from which you can lay down terms. Of course, this does mean you have to follow through and resign if Father calls your bluff. And if he does call your bluff and you resign and they can’t get anyone to replace you, then that’s that; they will have to live with the effects of their decision. They can still have spoken Masses (completely licit), a capella singing, or, God willing, Gregorian Chant (which is ordinarily unaccompanied).

As you said, you shouldn’t have to be a puppet for anyone, and no one has a moral obligation to play at Mass on pain of sin. Perhaps this will force some sanity into your situation.

As unpleasant and cynical as this is, I have lived long enough in the Church to know that just as with anything else on this planet, politics is alive and well there too, including parishes, councils and services. You may have to play the part.

"Laaadies aaand gentlemennn! In this corner wearing the black trunks, we have…THE PASTORRR! And in this corner, wearing the green trunks, we have …THE 17 YEAR OOOLD! :slapfight:

I know who I’m betting the ranch on.

 

[Gorgias]

I’ve seldom met a parish that really considered the musicians as more than lounge singers.

To be fair, there are also plenty of musicians in parish ministry who consider themselves liturgical performers…

 

[pianistclare]

To be fair, there are also plenty of musicians in parish ministry who consider themselves liturgical performers…

No, that’s misconception perpetrated here. Which is very unfair for people to assume.
Most share their God given talents very humbly.

 

[Exiled_Child]

Some poor little parish with no music is awaiting your arrival.
Take heart. Play for the love of the Lord, and sing your hearts out.
There is a place for you,… it may not have great acoustics, or wonderful hymnals, but someone will understand your desire to serve through music and welcome you to music ministry. (gee, I could tell you stories )
St. Cecilia and St. Gregory the Great…pray for us!

That’s a very beautiful bit of encouragement, and it’s no doubt true. I really like the way people help keep kindred spirits morale up here.

 

[BrockH]

Wow…I never intended to sound arrogant or to be rude or presumptuous! It looks like we have a war going on this thread.

 

[BrockH]

That’s a very beautiful bit of encouragement, and it’s no doubt true. I really like the way people help keep kindred spirits morale up here.

Thank you all for the responses. God bless.

 

[Gorgias]

No, that’s misconception perpetrated here. Which is very unfair for people to assume.

Umm… so your perceptions are correct, but others’ are simply misconceptions…? Well, that’s convenient…

Most share their God given talents very humbly.

Many do. Also, many get ticked off when a priest tells them what his expectations for liturgy are.

 

[Gorgias]

Wow…I never intended to sound arrogant or to be rude or presumptuous! It looks like we have a war going on this thread.

To be fair, you said that the priest “took over by force”. Since he’s your employer, and he’s responsible for the liturgy at his parish, that seems a bit out of place.

Still, you seem to have legitimate gripes. On the other hand, if the worst it gets is that he “refuses to sing” what you play, is that all that bad?

 

[BrockH]

Umm… so your perceptions are correct, but others’ are simply misconceptions…? Well, that’s convenient…

Many do. Also, many get ticked off when a priest tells them what his expectations for liturgy are.

If you’re referring to me, let me tell you something. You don’t know me or anything about how the parish here operates. We were never once told how we can improve or what is incorrect. I AM a humble person, by the way.

 

[maryjk]

No, that’s misconception perpetrated here. Which is very unfair for people to assume.
Most share their God given talents very humbly.

Yes, most do. That is correct.

But there are certainly some that seem to think it is a performance. And if Father tries to tone them down a bit, they get very upset.

To the OP. It isn’t a fight. It is simply a discussion.

 

[ProVobis]

The cantor and I are the ones who look stupid if the music doesn’t go right. He sings extremely loud and overpowers the cantor and the congregation.

I have to ask, is he singing into a microphone as well? Just that would be overpowering to me.

 

[Trident_H]

If you’re referring to me, let me tell you something. You don’t know me or anything about how the parish here operates. We were never once told how we can improve or what is incorrect. I AM a humble person, by the way.

Sorry Brock if you were serious, I really am, but, I don’t know you and there was no winky and all, but I have to think you were joking here. If you were I just wanted you to know that you made my day. That is so funny!

But if you were serious–well, um, I am so sorry. I didn’t mean to laugh at you!

 

[pianistclare]

He was talking to me.
I’m a professional musician with an advanced degree that has worked in many parishes with many priests and 3 Archbishops now.

I know what I’m talking about. Unlike many of the complainers in the pew who believe that since they own a radio they know what good music is.

Life for a Music Director is a lot of hard work, a lot of continuing ed, a lot of rehearsal time, and a lot of grief from those who want us to sing the same some every week, because it’s their favorite pre Vatican II piece, regardless of whether it’s appropriate for the readings of the day. Oh, and we should do it for free if we were truly thankful people. Feeding your kids is over-rated.

it’s not a matter of “convenience” and I find that remark incredibly insulting.

Walk a mile in their shoes, and then get back with us.

 

[pnewton]

I take it the OP is a volunteer.
Nothing he can do about it other than to quit.

This will be my solution, in this situation, if I am in it, or when I am in it. I am admittedly lacking in musical talent. I cannot sight read. Each new piece takes a while to work where I can sing it. I cannot get enough people to attend a weekly practice, and if I could, I would face the same problem of having to learn a piece early well enough to teach it to people with no ability to read music .

If and when someone better comes along, I will happily step aside. If and when a priest asks more of me than I can actually do, I will step aside, even if no one is there to fill the spot. However, in this case, I will no do so without discussion, explaining the logic of not wanting to do something I am not capable of doing.

 

[ProVobis]

… regardless of whether it’s appropriate for the readings of the day.

I can appreciate your position to some degree, I once aspired to be a church organist until I found there was less and less demand for them, but aren’t there antiphons which the church suggests as most appropriate? Why waste time arguing about whether anything else would please everyone in the congregation at the same time? It’s not going to happen no matter what you music you play.

 

[philipl]

Thank you for your response. Playing for Sunday’s and Holy Days is the position I have and it does pay a very small amount. I do understand that Father is in charge, but I am not willing to be a puppet on a string for anyone but God. I would love to resign, but there is no one else to do it. We have two pianists- myself and a Methodist lady who plays on Saturday evenings.

If you stop doing it, and there is no one to take over then he might start to understand.

 

[EasterJoy]

OP, what does your pastor say when you complain to him?

What does he say when you *tell *him that you would like the same respect that other music leaders get, which is at least some (name removed by moderator)ut into what music you’re going to play? What does he say when you tell him that it is difficult for you, the other musicians, and the singers, not to mention the congregation, when he does his own thing with no warning at all? What does he say when you suggest that your parish needs a liturgy committee, which is how other parishes plan liturgies that go smoothly and confidently for everyone?

Were I you, I’d go to a pastor at another parish, preferably one that is familiar with this priest, and ask for an entirely confidential stab of advice about how to have this conversation. Write down your questions before you go. Ask him where the land mines are, ask him what priests want and expect of both themselves and the parish music providers under these circumstances, and ask him how to go about making this a successful conversation. Then do what he says, unless he says, “There is nothing you can do. Either suck it up or quit.” That fails the virtue of hope. Your pastor deserves to have feedback about how his behavior affects others, even if it is years before his stubbornness thaws enough to make use of the accumulation of feedback he eventually gets. Resolve to be a positive part of the change that needs to happen, even if you won’t be around to see it. Resolve to give it in a way that is charitable as St. Paul describes in Corinthians: patient, kind, never rude, not self-seeking, not prone to anger, and so on.

You also need to consider whether or not to issue the ultimatum: Either I am included in selecting the music and we do the music as we agree ahead of time, or I quit. You are not being treated with the minimum of deference for your training that a music leader is normally given, even by a priest who is a professional musician himself. You would not be failing in humility by insisting that you get enough respect to fulfill your public role competently. As someone has already suggested, you are unlikely to lack a parish near you who would be pleased to take you on within the year.

If I had the conversation I am suggesting you have with your pastor and he totally refused to budge, I’d quit if he did not fire me. I’d also write a letter to the vicar of clergy, explaining why. The office that assigns priests deserves to know about problems of this kind, and deserves to know when a problem is isolated and when it is chronic. It is very hard for them to do their job competently when they are kept in the dark.

 

[EasterJoy]

If you stop doing it, and there is no one to take over then he might start to understand.

I gather you are saying the OP ought to just walk out without telling anyone why, or at least without telling the priest why. (Otherwise, why would he only “start” to understand when you quit? )

To quit without having a direct conversation about the problem is passive-aggressive. When there is a problem with someone, deal with it kindly, diplomatically, and discretely, but do it directly. Be open with those who have a right to know, but do not sin in how you tell the truth, either by hiding it to avoid conflict that will affect you or by putting it on display to the unnecessary detriment of someone else’s reputation.

For instance, while I would write a note or make a visit to the vicar of clergy if I were to quit over something like this, I would otherwise try to tell as few people as possible. In my note, I’d be careful to detail all the things the priest does right, and not just this isolated issue that lead to my departure. The idea is to give the information to those who have a right to have it, not to lower the esteem given to a pastor that has proven too difficult for me to work with personally. In that way, if I am the problem and a replacement is found who is happy with this priest, as little damage as possible will have been done to either him or to the parish.

What should NOT be done is for everyone in the parish to know why you’re unhappy and why you’re quitting, but to never tell the problem to the priest to his face. That is an offense against charity and against the truth. Even if you find that he bad-mouths you behind your back, don’t do it to him.