Passion is good. I just get tired of seeing the right accused by the left of distortion and untruth, while the same charge is made going the other way too, as if one side engages the other more ethically than its opponent.I’m not sure I follow you. What’s wrong with passion?
Guess what other “movement” has won this terminology war? Even The Church has caved in recent official documents. I sadly see Roman Catholics employing disingenuous language probably unwittingly. It’s imperative to use the correct language exactly because of the power of words but more important the salvation of souls are on the line.Every crafty movement uses euphemisms to give themselves the appearance of righteousness. Every single one of them. This is how viruses spread. The virus sends a deceptive message, and the blood cell is unable to differentiate between the virus and a legitimate resource, such as a protein, and so it lets it through the membrane. It’s not something that’s going to go away. Basically, you need to be patient and pick apart the opposition’s terminology to explain why how it falls short of actual reality. For example, abortion is not pro-choice, because we do not have the choice to end human life; that would be infringing on other people’s basic human dignity. Etc.
This topic could be a thread of its own. I hope the day is soon realized when male circumcision is viewed as barbaric as female circumcision, and the practice is eradicated.Yes, but bear in mind, an entire race of men’s genitals were and are “mutilated” with circumcision. See, different cultures look at these things differently.
Yes, it’s a different topic, for sure. But I seriously doubt if a government presumed to assert authority over the practice, that people would stop. That highlights what I see as the first major issue of the Bible: people’s right and duty to submit to God.This topic could be a thread of its own. I hope the day is soon realized when male circumcision is viewed as barbaric as female circumcision, and the practice is eradicated.
Please read this extract from the book “My Broken Christ Walks Over The Waters”I am sorry but I am “pro-choice” “for legal abortion” whatever language you want to call it I am for it.
And Id like just like to leave you with a few quotes -You who promote abortion or abortions that seek to snatch from the Author and Lord of life His legitimate and sole rights… you who under the slogan that “a woman has the right to decide about her own body”, are concealing the “right” to kill, which will never be a right… To you I say; please think seriously about what you are doing and get on your knees, pleading for God’s forgiveness and turning your lives around radically, because what awaits you on the other side is so horrible that you cannot even imagine. I say this because the pain you will suffer during your entire lives does not even amount to a thousand part of the pain that you will inflict on your own children while pulling them out of your wombs; and because the pain of a child during the most terrible of abortions will not amount to even a millionth of the eternal suffering to which you are being condemned by your own blindness.
My mission on this journey through the earth is only one, to take as many souls as I can to Jesus. Therefore, as a woman that I am, I am dedicating a few lines to you without the least intention of confronting you with ideas or arguments and without the least intention of hurting any of you. To the contrary, I only want to plead with you to reconsider what you are doing and stop your mad race towards the abyss and that of all those other naïve women whom you “generously help to get out of a problem”.
I do not know how much a word of mine, so poor and sinful, can do to reach your hearts. Nor do I know which of you would be reached by these words of mine, but I do not worry about it because I know that the Lord will take care of that… What I do not want is that a sin of omission may befall me the day I find myself before the Throne of God to be judged. Do not go launching campaigns to destroy the most marvelous thing that the Creator has made with His hands. Contemplate yourselves for five straight minutes in front of a mirror, and think of how much love He must have felt when you were being formed in the wombs of your mothers. So much so that He gave you a soul and intelligence, even if you cannot see one or the other. He gave you strength, courage, health and, perhaps, beauty… Think of how He has formed your hands finger by finger, all perfectly done. And He did it in the hope that you would take in them a rosary, a cross, a flower, a book, a sewing or any other productive tool… But never a murderous knife!
Please wake up! Look towards the light and flee from the darkness! May the blood of the innocent ones, which runs like a river, not wake you up in the middle of the night to drown you in nightmares… Friend, come down from your own altar. Please look; look in front of you. Jesus is on the opposite shore, stretching out His hand for you to take a leap and grab hold of it tightly. Please do not fear, and forgive those who may have hurt you so much… All of us make mistakes, and not just once but thousands of times, yet what is big and wonderful, what is courageous, is to acknowledge them and turn back from the mistaken road in order to take the correct one. Clarity will never come from the hand of those who murder! Flee from them! For even if they convince you of the contrary with their alleged help, they are only going to destroy you.
Did you read the extract I provided you with?None of those wonderfully impassioned quotes answers mt basic questions, who is responsible for these unwanted children? While you condemn the mother as a horrible person why would you force a as you put it precious child to be raised by at best indifferent mother?
you might well consider yourself a, “devout catholic,” but you are not a catholic of any kind, just by basic definition. please don’t call yourself one.I am sorry but I am “pro-choice” “for legal abortion” whatever language you want to call it I am for it. If the fetus is too small to live outside of the body well you get my point. There are so many pro-lifers who wish to take away a woman’s right to choose which no matter how you slice it, this is a decision made by the woman who is pregnant. The problem with this is their advice seems to stop there, what do you do with all of these unwanted children? how many of you pro-lifers on this forum have adopted children? You don’t want a woman to make a decision that is right for her or her family but you also don’t want the responsibility that she has decided is more than she can handle. I know I know God will make away, yet how many of you has God moved to intervene? I consider myself a devout Catholic but this is one issue that I do not support the church in.
That logic is the first step on a dangerous and slippery slope. If it is preferable to kill a child than to let it grow up in poverty, then what right do many others have to life if they are poor, disilussioned, handicapped, disadvanted. Jesus said “what you have done for the least of these, you did for me”. Would you have killed Jesus if he came knocking on your door poor and destitute? If you are rich, it is your duty to help the poor, not to help them kill their children.None of those wonderfully impassioned quotes answers mt basic questions, who is responsible for these unwanted children? While you condemn the mother as a horrible person why would you force a as you put it precious child to be raised by at best indifferent mother?
Another part of the response to that question is faith. God gave the Israelites manna when they were in the wilderness. He sent an angel to free St Paul from prison. God will help if you are prepared to accept his help. If you receive charity, it is God acting through the giver and answering your prayers. To kill a child because you are afraid you will not be able to feed it is to say you don’t trust God’s mercy and don’t believe God has a plan for your child.your question is judgemental as well as presumptuous. it isn’t for you to say that we are or are not doing the right thing, nor do we answer to you for our charitable works. in fact, if you’ll recall, we are not supposed to draw attention to ourselves when we do what were supposed to. however, to answer your question, some of us contribute to charities that support these mothers and some if us do adopt children. that should be answer enough.
This is over the line. “Speak the truth in love”, bro!You call yourself a devout Catholic, personally I find it offensive for you to say that and than try to justify murder, I personally find it even more offensive for you to pretend as if you care by doing so, that’s like a Nazi saying “I consider myself a devout Catholic and I advocate the killing of Jews by the millions in the gass chambers because I care.”
I always wonder how they think like that too and it’s one of my main anti abortion arguments. If I were to go into a neonatal unit and suction a child’s head off I would be considered evil, BUT if I were a qualified doctor doing the same thing to the same age baby in an abortion clinic then I’d be fighting for ‘women’s rights’. What on earth?I think the best tack is to ask pro-choicers to explain why it should be permissible for a 5-month gestational age fetus to be aborted, but it is wrong to kill a premature baby who was born at 5 month gestational age. I ask my philosophy students this every semester, and I am yet to have a student give anything like a sufficient answer.
It is her decision, yes, but the question is: should it be her decision? People in this country do not have the option to steal without legal consequences, but they do have the option to abort without legal consequences. Pro-lifers want to change that.I am sorry but I am “pro-choice” “for legal abortion” whatever language you want to call it I am for it. If the fetus is too small to live outside of the body well you get my point. There are so many pro-lifers who wish to take away a woman’s right to choose which no matter how you slice it, this is a decision made by the woman who is pregnant.
If abortion were illegal, there would be fewer pregnancies, because people would realize the potential consequences of their actions. When abortion was illegal, there were fewer teenage pregnancies.The problem with this is their advice seems to stop there, what do you do with all of these unwanted children?
If the only way to make a girl can handle her responsibilities is by killing another person, she’s got a problem. Maybe she could ask for help?You don’t want a woman to make a decision that is right for her or her family but you also don’t want the responsibility that she has decided is more than she can handle.
No one is condemning the mother, least of all God. We are all sinners. I myself have done some awful things. But we need to respond to our sins with repentance – otherwise we allow he who condemns – the devil – to be the driving force in our lives.None of those wonderfully impassioned quotes answers mt basic questions, who is responsible for these unwanted children? While you condemn the mother as a horrible person why would you force a as you put it precious child to be raised by at best indifferent mother?
So true.This is over the line. “Speak the truth in love”, bro!
Unfortunately, this is wholly untrue. I am anti abortion, and have lived in a country with no abortion, but there were still many unplanned pregnancies there. Even if there were fewer teenage pregnancies back in the US in the ol’ days, that was more to do with societal norms. Teenagers did not have the same amount of freedom. They certainly did not live together and pregnancy outside marriage would bring extreme shame on a woman and her family. So there was more factors that made people think twice about pre marital sex.If abortion were illegal, there would be fewer pregnancies, because people would realize the potential consequences of their actions. When abortion was illegal, there were fewer teenage pregnancies.
I have to say I have never understood this pro-choice logic. First of all, if a woman doesn’t want children: do not get pregnant!!! Easy and simple, don’t have sex. No sex = no unwanted children, problem solved. What you have stated here and in your previous post is reflection of irresponsible behavior. I don’t see where the “right” comes in here. Right to behave irresponsibly and when you get the consequences of your irresponsible behavior, “ah let’s just kill the baby.” That is no right that is plain irresponsibility. The mother is the one who should be responsible for her children and her actions, the woman who knows cannot afford or take care of a child should not be having sex. Sex causes pregnancy helloooo,the problem here is that in our culture women have separated so much sex from pregnancy that they think they can go around having sex without consequences. Well welcome to the real world, of you have sex you can get pregnant so instead of behaving without thinking, use your brain, be responsible and don’t have sex if you are not ready or don’t want to be a mother.None of those wonderfully impassioned quotes answers mt basic questions, who is responsible for these unwanted children? While you condemn the mother as a horrible person why would you force a as you put it precious child to be raised by at best indifferent mother?
Could you elaborate please? Did I offend you?This is over the line. “Speak the truth in love”, bro!
Matthew 25:41-46:12 Then his disciples came over to him and asked, “Do you know that you insulted the Pharisees by what you said?”
I believe it would be a disservice to have said it any other way.41 Then the king will say to those on his left, “Get away from me! You are under God’s curse. Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry, but you did not give me anything to eat, and I was thirsty, but you did not give me anything to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not welcome me, and I was naked, but you did not give me any clothes to wear. I was sick and in jail, but you did not take care of me.”
44 Then the people will ask, “Lord, when did we fail to help you when you were hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in jail?”
45 The king will say to them, “Whenever you failed to help any of my people, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do it for me.”
46 Then Jesus said, “Those people will be punished forever. But the ones who pleased God will have eternal life.”
God BlessPlease think seriously about what you are doing and get on your knees, pleading for God’s forgiveness and turning your lives around radically, because what awaits you on the other side is so horrible that you cannot even imagine. … the pain you will suffer during your entire lives does not even amount to a thousand part of the pain that you will inflict on your own children while pulling them out of your wombs; and because the pain of a child during the most terrible of abortions will not amount to even a millionth of the eternal suffering to which you are being condemned by your own blindness.
You are right that the sinner condemns himself. However, no one else has the right to condemn him, and God forgoes that right. Once the sinner repents, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus – no matter what evils they have done.You say, none are condemning the mother least of all God, No offense, but I would re-think that if I were you Prodigal_Son, the mother who condemns her child never to see the light of day, will condemn herself never to see the light of heaven. I would plead with her to repent and plead for our fathers forgiveness for one of the most gravest crimes against his image, against one of Gods greatest miracles, greatest gifts.
I agree. My apologies. Abortion is just so cold and heartless and it makes my blood boil when I see people trying to defend it, especially when claiming they are doing good by doing so.Josh,
People are being lied to about abortion, and they are following the crowd. They have inconsistent beliefs about it. The moral responsibility any given person has for supporting legal abortion differs wildly from person to person. We should educate people about this, not yell at them.
No matter what the topic, we need to assume the best of people. It is very plausible that satay is just “following the party line” on abortion, and hasn’t had these thoughts challenged in a truthful and loving way.
If you read through my response to satay above, you’ll see that I’m not soft on the issue, and I’m not compromising the truth. But I’m also assuming that satay is sincere, until proven otherwise. You don’t soften someone’s heart by comparing them to Nazis.
You are right that the sinner condemns himself. However, no one else has the right to condemn him, and God forgoes that right. Once the sinner repents, there is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus – no matter what evils they have done.
If I can be of assistance helping sinners come to repentance, that is what I live for. All of my experience of doing this, however, tells me that a human person’s heart must be held delicately. If there is darkness in that heart, I must not use that darkness to bludgeon them. In time, the repentant soul learns the truth of his own evil and comes to hate it with a hate that words cannot even express.