Overpopulation: Fact or Myth?

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I am of the opinion that overpopulation is a myth. Previous posters have more than adequately described the issues of distribution of wealth and resources, etc. so I won’t go there. I propose that the problem isn’t the quantity of people on earth but rather the quality. When people can put God first, their neighbour second and themselves last, we will solve the worlds issues…
World Population:
1 Billion- Year 1804
2 Billion- Year 1927
3 Billion- Year 1959
4 Billion- Year 1974
5 Billion- Year 1987
6 Billion- Year 1999
7 Billion- Year 2011
(Source-U.N.)

Species Extinctions Since 1800(rounded off):
1830=300 extinctions
1860=500 extinctions
1890=750 "
1920=2,250 "
1950=6,750 "
1980=18,500 "
2010=53,000 "

What part of this are you calling a “myth”? These are real numbers…as for if you want to play, “bury your head in the sand”, it will all go away…good luck. It would be nice if someone could look at it and draw a logical conclusion that Birth Control between married couples makes sense.
 
World Population:
1 Billion- Year 1804
2 Billion- Year 1927
3 Billion- Year 1959
4 Billion- Year 1974
5 Billion- Year 1987
6 Billion- Year 1999
7 Billion- Year 2011
(Source-U.N.)

Species Extinctions Since 1800(rounded off):
1830=300 extinctions
1860=500 extinctions
1890=750 "
1920=2,250 "
1950=6,750 "
1980=18,500 "
2010=53,000 "

What part of this are you calling a “myth”? These are real numbers…as for if you want to play, “bury your head in the sand”, it will all go away…good luck. It would be nice if someone could look at it and draw a logical conclusion that Birth Control between married couples makes sense.
Extinction has more to do with pollution and encroachment into animal habitats than it has to do with the number of people on earth. There are plenty of things that the human race can do to greatly reduce the amount of pollution and waste that we produce, we choose not to however. Artificial birth control also produces chemical waste, latex condoms take forever and a day to decompose… If you really want to make a lasting change, have more than the average amount do children and teach them to be good stewards of the earth and their fellow man. In a sense, outbreed the idiots… It seems to me that you are more concerns about animals than about your fellow humans. It concerns me a great deal more that babies are starving to death when North Americans throw out a good deal of food that is perfectly fine for consumption.
 
Extinction has more to do with pollution and encroachment into animal habitats than it has to do with the number of people on earth. There are plenty of things that the human race can do to greatly reduce the amount of pollution and waste that we produce, we choose not to however. Artificial birth control also produces chemical waste, latex condoms take forever and a day to decompose… If you really want to make a lasting change, have more than the average amount do children and teach them to be good stewards of the earth and their fellow man. In a sense, outbreed the idiots… It seems to me that you are more concerns about animals than about your fellow humans. It concerns me a great deal more that babies are starving to death when North Americans throw out a good deal of food that is perfectly fine for consumption.
Ok, but you do agree the time will come when population will need to stop growing?
 
Ok, but you do agree the time will come when population will need to stop growing?
I think that we should be fruitful and multiply (in a manner that respects other life on earth) until the Good Lord decides to return.
 
I think that we should be fruitful and multiply (in a manner that respects other life on earth) until the Good Lord decides to return.
That outlook provides all the flexibility needed, regardless of one’s view on population, so who could disagree! 👍
 
Extinction has more to do with pollution and encroachment into animal habitats than it has to do with the number of people on earth. There are plenty of things that the human race can do to greatly reduce the amount of pollution and waste that we produce, we choose not to however. Artificial birth control also produces chemical waste, latex condoms take forever and a day to decompose… If you really want to make a lasting change, have more than the average amount do children and teach them to be good stewards of the earth and their fellow man. In a sense, outbreed the idiots… It seems to me that you are more concerns about animals than about your fellow humans. It concerns me a great deal more that babies are starving to death when North Americans throw out a good deal of food that is perfectly fine for consumption.
Well, Sir, I AM just as concerned about the human element of overpopulation. You want me to quote stats and sources? What is so hard about realizing that 1 Billion people would be easier to feed than 7 Billion. AND, Are you really asking me to believe that the reason the Catholic Church opposes ABC is because the earth will be polluted by used condoms. Please, be logical. And yes, I agree, teach people to be responsible. As far as outbreeding the idiots, I think that was Hilter’s idea, “to outbreed all the “idiots.”” Don’t think that worked too well. I’m thankful you are concerned about the food that Americans
throw out…God bless you.
 
There is growing agreement among specialists is aging that THERE IS NOT a natural limit to aging. In fact, many things live longer than humans, and humans live longer than many things. Many living things age at varying rates, and there are systems within the bodies of various living things that combat aging. The increasing thought process today is that aging should be thought of as a disease.
Aging is not a disease; it is simply the design of the body. A body completely free of disease will still die, and it will die by a certain age, determined by the genetic coding of the body.

Specialists can talk all they want; there are specialists that take the contrarian point on every issue. Their credibility is determined by the results of the theories. So far, what they are putting forth is simply just talk, with zero examples to prove their point.

With regard to other things living longer than humans, that is true. It is also true that their biological makeup is different. You can’t expect two creatures with genetic differences to simply act similarly because they exercise or take medicine. You have to change their genes. In fact, I recommend that you study these animals to become informed on the matter. There are interesting tradeoffs in various animals.
 
Aging is not a disease; it is simply the design of the body. A body completely free of disease will still die, and it will die by a certain age, determined by the genetic coding of the body.

Specialists can talk all they want; there are specialists that take the contrarian point on every issue. Their credibility is determined by the results of the theories. So far, what they are putting forth is simply just talk, with zero examples to prove their point.

With regard to other things living longer than humans, that is true. It is also true that their biological makeup is different. You can’t expect two creatures with genetic differences to simply act similarly because they exercise or take medicine. You have to change their genes. In fact, I recommend that you study these animals to become informed on the matter. There are interesting tradeoffs in various animals.
A hundred years ago we might have had a similar conversation only that certain age would be 100.
 
Aging is not a disease; it is simply the design of the body. A body completely free of disease will still die, and it will die by a certain age, determined by the genetic coding of the body.
That’s a little oversimplified, as no"body" dies “free of disease”. While age is not a disease per se, it manifests as any of a number of disease states that the body when younger could resist.

If the disease states that accompany ageing are overcome, the body will live on, as there will be nothing to end the life. There will still be a final limit, probably when too few neurons are left in the brain to energize the nerves and body (as neurons, unlike other body-cells, are not renewed).

ICXC NIKA
 
A hundred years ago we might have had a similar conversation only that certain age would be 100.
Interestingly enough, I have longevity on certain sides of my family. A certain set of siblings, born in the 1830s/1840s, lived between 87-107 years of age, with the vast majority living over 100 (the one that died at 87 had cancer). There are many examples of people in U.S. history that lived to a ripe old age.

The average/median age changes over time. However, there exists not a single verifiable instance of a human being living greater than the maximum expected age. I actually believe such a case might occur, but I also believe that there will be a genetic reason for it, not due to better medicine, health, or exercise.
 
That’s a little oversimplified, as no"body" dies “free of disease”.
I’m speaking in hypotheticals, of course. If it were possible, the fact remains that the cells in major systems of the human body will cease to function at some point in time.
While age is not a disease per se, it manifests as any of a number of disease states that the body when younger could resist.
The inability of various body systems to operate will cause disease to overtake the body, either by external forces (immune system failure), or internal forces (liver failure, heart failure, etc.).
 
Here’s my two cents on this issue, so I suppose you can take it for what it’s worth if you like.

I think population size is a matter that should be given careful consideration by everyone, and shouldn’t simply be blithely ignored. I neither believe that we’re at a point of rapid population growth that will tend toward our own destruction through overpopulation, nor do I believe that we’re at a point of rapid population decline that will tend toward our own destruction.

That said, neither rapid growth, nor rapid decline are desirable ends, and I don’t think we as a specie have carefully considered this issue such that we’ve taken proper measures to manage ourselves in this regard.

On the one hand, it is irresponsible to reproduce without due consideration of resource constraints. Responsible family planning is not about not trusting in God’s providence. Suggesting as much is like suggesting that we shouldn’t bother with medicine because God will provide. That is simply not the Catholic approach.

On the other hand, it is also irresponsible to curtail reproduction artificially. This doesn’t lend the proper respect to our reproductive power that it deserves.

Irresponsible reproduction damages our environment, while artificial birth control damages ourselves.

A great range of issues here have been considered, but rather than working toward a common understanding that might lead to a unified vision of how to proceed, entrenched argumentation has taken place.

Both overpopulation and underpopulation should be concerns for good Catholics. God did command humanity to increase and multiply, and we have done so. Does this mean infinite expansion? Christ tells us that in the end, there will be no marriage. If this is the case, does this mean that in Heaven we will no longer continue to reproduce? If this is so, then might we also consider that infinite reproduction was not what was intended by God’s command to be fruitful and multiply? Priests do not procreate, nor do celibate brothers and sisters, and this is good.

God also gave us dominion over the earth. What does that mean? What does that look like? It means that the earth is our domain, it is our house, and we must rule it. The earth does not only consist of humans. We are the heads of this household, earth. As the head of the Church, Christ gave Himself up for us, sacrificed Himself for us. He loved us. Likewise are husbands commanded to love their wives. Masters, leaders, rulers are called to be the servants of those they rule.

I am not placing plants and animals above humans, nor even on equal standing with humans. Our value is beyond theirs. Nevertheless, it is our obligation, our OBLIGATION, not only to care for one another, but also to care for those creatures that have been put in our charge. As a specie, we have failed, and are failing, on both fronts.

The Catholic approach is “both/and.” We cannot separate this issue into “humans or animals/environment”. We must consider both, and care for both. Therefore, we must consider what effects our population growth is having and will continue to have on those creatures whom God commanded us to have dominion over. Likewise, we must also be obedient to God’s command to be fruitful.

We must carefully consider what extension of our lifespans through improved medicine will have on our population size, both in relation to how that will affect peoples’ economic situations and standards of living, as well as how it will affect the other species on our planet.

We must consider better methods of resource management, and population localization. For example, is it better to build horizontally (ie, the "urban sprawl’) or to build vertically (both upward and downward)? How will each of these methods affect our economic situations, and the other species on our planet?

We must consider our consumption practices. Do we live sustainably, both individually and as a society? How do our consumption practices affect each other, and the other species on our planet? Should we consume less? Redistribute resources for more equal consumption? Find alternative sources of energy?

Even if we changed all of our practices so as to maximize personal economy, and environmental protection, should we consider ourselves free to multiply indefinitely? What impact would that have not only on our consumable resources, but also our material resources for construction?

I think it behooves us to ask the question, “what is a responsible population size?” This shouldn’t be asked selfishly, so as to maximize one’s own personal comforts. Rather it should be asked selflessly, so as to understand what size is too great for the earth to hormoniously sustain, as well as to understand what size is too small for us to properly care for each other and for the earth.

Ignoring this question is not responsible. I will reiterate that I am not someone who thinks overpopulation is a problem, nor do I think underpopulation is a problem right now either. I am not a person who holds animals in an inordinate esteem relative to humanity. I simply recognize that higher species that ourselves serve us (angels), as well as the ultimate being Himself, and therefore we also should care for those beings who are lesser than ourselves, except where that care represents a neglect of care for our fellow man. I am also against forced population control, in case you were wondering. And ABC is also out of the question, as I am a faithful adherant to the Magesterium.
 
Aging is not a disease; it is simply the design of the body. A body completely free of disease will still die, and it will die by a certain age, determined by the genetic coding of the body.

Specialists can talk all they want; there are specialists that take the contrarian point on every issue. Their credibility is determined by the results of the theories. So far, what they are putting forth is simply just talk, with zero examples to prove their point.

With regard to other things living longer than humans, that is true. It is also true that their biological makeup is different. You can’t expect two creatures with genetic differences to simply act similarly because they exercise or take medicine. You have to change their genes. In fact, I recommend that you study these animals to become informed on the matter. There are interesting tradeoffs in various animals.
Asserting that aging is not a disease does not make it so. Increasingly, many aspects of aging appear to be a form of disease, and increasingly researchers are treating it as such.

The statement "Specialists can talk all they want; there are specialists that take the contrarian point on every issue. Their credibility is determined by the results of the theories. So far, what they are putting forth is simply just talk, with zero examples to prove their point. " is in fact demonstrably false since researchers have in fact had numerous successful experiments that have increased lifespan in several species, or with human cells on their own - there are human tissue samples (for example, from cancers) that have been growing for decades and from all appearances will continue to do so indefinitely.

The biological make-up of (at least the) vast majority of creatures on Earth is, at the most fundamental levels, the same. One of the key questions regarding life on Earth right now is if there is ONLY one form of life on Earth or if there may in fact be multiple forms (which would be evidence either for a form of panspermia or for the evolution of life more than one time.) There is ongoing research in this field. Some researchers have postulated that mitochondria might actually be a separate life form. There is not evidence supporting this postulate at this time - but neither is there evidence against it.

Yes, there are significant inter-special differences - but many of the things being discussed are not species dependent. Rats are fundamentally very similar to humans, but their life span is typically 2-3 years, with long-lived rates perhaps at 5-8 years. That’s a significant difference given the relatively limited difference in the biology.

Most apes are relatively close in terms of biology, chimps likely the closest. Yet their lifespans are currently maxing around 60 years for chimps, and 40-50 years for other apes. Again, fairly significant differences given the close biology.
 
I’m speaking in hypotheticals, of course. If it were possible, the fact remains that the cells in major systems of the human body will cease to function at some point in time.
There isn’t clear evidence to back up that assertion. Cell degeneration is appearing more and more to be due to wear and tear on the body, including wear and tear due to significant metabolism. It has been shown that controlling this can and does impact cellular longevity. Tissue samples have been maintained for decades, with no clear signs of aging.

These FACTS are why researchers are no longer looking at this issue in the way you describe.
The inability of various body systems to operate will cause disease to overtake the body, either by external forces (immune system failure), or internal forces (liver failure, heart failure, etc.).
Except that this inability of the body to perform seems to be a disease itself. Some have argued that this is a cellular engineering problem, and thus eventually solvable. There’s no clear reason to dispute that, and given the results of early research, there is some reason to believe it.
 
Extinction has more to do with pollution and encroachment into animal habitats than it has to do with the number of people on earth.
Pollution and encroachment into animal habitats is a direct impact of the number of people on earth. While the problem can be managed, its a problem that is exhibited in all forms of exponential growth. Eventually, management of the issue is insufficient.
 
So far, what they are putting forth is simply just talk, with zero examples to prove their point. " is in fact demonstrably false
Since it is demonstrably false, who is the individual that has verifiably lived to greater than 130 years?
since researchers have in fact had numerous successful experiments that have increased lifespan in several species, or with human cells on their own - there are human tissue samples (for example, from cancers) that have been growing for decades and from all appearances will continue to do so indefinitely.
Tissue samples are not a human body, and more than a hubcap is a car. There are samples that will effectively live forever; that doesn’t mean that the human body will, because the human body contains various types.
Yes, there are significant inter-special differences - but many of the things being discussed are not species dependent. Rats are fundamentally very similar to humans, but their life span is typically 2-3 years, with long-lived rates perhaps at 5-8 years. That’s a significant difference given the relatively limited difference in the biology.
There are reasons for that…do you know what those reasons are? If not, I suggest you find out what those trade-offs are, because they are very relevant to the issue at hand.
 
The human soma should probably be compared to larger animals rather than smaller ones.

A smaller organism is required by the square-cube law to run a faster metabolism (therefore more entropy) to maintain body heat. Therefore most mouse and rat-sized beings do not live very long, elephants are much longer lived, and some observations suggest that whales may be centennial.

The human soma is also distinctively unable to synthesize vitamin C, and critters that do often live seven times longer as adults than their developmental stage. If that were the case in human life, lifetimes in the 120s would indeed be the norm (15 years developmental + 7* 15 years adult = 120).

There are numerous factors beyond the similarity of DNA.

ICXC NIKA
 
Since it is demonstrably false, who is the individual that has verifiably lived to greater than 130 years?

Tissue samples are not a human body, and more than a hubcap is a car. There are samples that will effectively live forever; that doesn’t mean that the human body will, because the human body contains various types.

There are reasons for that…do you know what those reasons are? If not, I suggest you find out what those trade-offs are, because they are very relevant to the issue at hand.
Can you clarify whether you seek to prosecute your argument solely as a scientific debate, or at some base level, does your argument arise from on a theological belief / argument about potential human lifespans? If the latter is a factor, could you explain what it is?

Do you believe that it may become **possible **to slow the degeneration that we all suffer, such that say, 2% of individuals may live to say, 140 years?
 
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