Overwhelming evidence for Design?

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Perhaps miracles do happen after all!
Have you had such an encounter in order to inspire your own belief?
The immense probability of many events doesn’t preclude **all **freedom to choose what to believe.
But repeated experience, coupled with a lack of negating experiences, does prompt belief, and also the accompanying awareness that not to believe in certain phenomena constitutes willful blindness or self-deception. Perhaps that is how believers feel about atheists, and vice versa…
If there were no room for doubt we would realise we were being protected by a benevolent power.
Why would that be such a bad thing, or something to our detriment? Isn’t knowledge of truth considered to be valuable by believers? Or does belief trump knowledge?
 
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                             Perhaps miracles do happen after all!
There is plenty of evidence. 😉
Have you had such an encounter in order to inspire your own belief?

I’ve had over twenty very narrow escapes from death - mainly in Africa - I can’t believe they were all due to luck.
The immense probability of many
events doesn’t preclude **all **freedom to choose what to believe.
But repeated experience, coupled with a lack of negating experiences, does prompt belief, and also the accompanying awareness that not to believe in certain phenomena constitutes willful blindness or self-deception. Perhaps that is how believers feel about atheists, and vice versa…

It seems more likely that a fair number (strange expression!) of believers and non-believers deceive themselves but the majority are sincere.
If there were no
room for doubt we would realise we were being protected by a benevolent power.
Why would that be such a bad thing, or something to our detriment? Isn’t knowledge of truth considered to be valuable by believers?

Not the whole truth!
Or does belief trump knowledge?
All knowledge is based on beliefs. 🙂
 
I fear your “trump card” questions cut both ways.

What produces consciousness? Some entity that is already conscious, like a soul? That is avoiding the question, unless you can answer:

How does it produce consciousness? How, even, does it interact with the physical aspects of human beings in order to influence our behaviour?

Are persons merely a confluence of nonphysical ectoplasm?
I propose that consciousness is a natural phenomenon that can be manifested by any entity capable of freely violating the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (e.g: the Maxwellian Demon from classical physics).

The misunderstood entity known as the human soul is actually such an entity. I call it beon because it is different in origin and nature than the God-created soul of religious tradition.

Moreover, beon is entirely “physical” in that it must interact with other components of the physical universe, which makes it physical, by definition.
 
Omnipotence does not imply inconsistency.

Needless suffering is all pain and anguish that could be prevented by human beings.
I’m not sure what question you are answering in the first quote. If you can say that God acts ‘wherever and whenever possible’ then you are implying that there are times and places when He cannot. Can you give me an example where or when it is impossible for Him to act?

And ‘needless’ to me indicates that without need. Without purpose. So needless suffering is suffering that has no purpose. I actually thought of the tsunami as did Sair. Your reply to that is that we need disasters or ‘needless suffering’ to show that we are not being protected by a deity.

We’re going around in a circle. God will prevent needless suffering but…He allows needless suffering to prevent us realising that we are being protected by a benevolent deity.

And what about other needless suffering that we can’t do anything about? The pain that an animal will go through in being eaten by a predator serves no purpose. Why is the natural world set up as it is?
 
Tony,
I shall try fussing with this series of confused statements, not expecting an interesting reply, but in honor of your ongoing best-effort contributions to metaphysical thought.
  1. A metaphysical theory is an interpretation of reality.
2.Your theory is an interpretation of reality.
  1. Therefore your theory is a metaphysical theory.
I agree. However, it is an unusual kind of metaphysical theory, in that it is derived from belief in a creator, plus full acceptance of the principles and hard evidence from physics.

Moreover, it incorporates the latest insights from neurology, psychology, and microbiology. While speculative, my theories are constrained by scientific evidence and solid theoretical principles.
  1. The Big Bang is a physical theory.
Not anymore. It began with the notion that some little cosmic micropea smaller than a proton had always existed, then suddenly exploded without cause.

The “without cause” statement is outside of all other physical theories, which deal with causes and effects, opposing forces, etc. Cosmologists ignored this little glitch.

Recently, after learning that the math did not support the micropea hypothesis, cosmies quietly morphed the micropea into something they call a “physical singularity.” Unfortunately, there is no such thing.

This is entirely a mathematical concept, a contrivance designed to support cosmological beliefs, that has nothing to do with physical reality.
  1. There is no evidence that reality is solely physical.
Nor is there evidence that reality contains anything that is non-physical.

However, kindly note that the only evidence we can obtain about the universe is entirely physical. That is the only evidence that I work with.

Lest you get dreadfully confused, let me point out that I include a sophisticated Creator-concept, plus a functional notion of what you would label a “soul,” within a clear and simple physical framework.
  1. Therefore there is no evidence that metaphysical theories are physical theories.
And so what? Everyone knows that most metaphysical theories are a mixture of religion, spirituality, and made up nonsense. I’ve yet to read a serious metaphysical theory (other than my own) which incorporates physics.

Kind of strange, since metaphysics is about what happened before physics, and would have been properly named antephysics.
  1. Therefore there is no evidence that cosmological theories - which are necessarily physical theories - are necessarily metaphysical.
And so what? BTW, the “Therefore” at the beginning of the above statement is irrelevant, and does not logically follow from the preceding stuff.
  1. The only physical theory which is necessarily metaphysical is physicalism.
I guess from this incorrect statement that you’ve not read my book.
  1. No one has ever explained how reasoning can be valid if it is caused by blind physical events.
I have, right here on CAF. My book does, with finer detail and better background.
  1. Physicalism is self-destructive - and therefore false - because it explains consciousness and reasoning in terms of blind physical events.
I kind of agree with this, while noting that it does not follow from any of your prior statements.

I disagree with your claim that physicalism explains consciousness. It tries, unsuccessfully.

Since I’m not a “physicalist,” I find it rather easy and simple to explain consciousness in the context of physics— but not quite the physics that we were taught in school. I integrate dark energy into my ideas, explaining it in the process, as an essential component of a coherent metaphysical scheme.
 
Not anymore. It began with the notion that some little cosmic micropea smaller than a proton had always existed, then suddenly** exploded without cause**.
That is not my understanding of BigBang cosmology. No science book I have ever read has described what you are saying here.
 
My book does, with finer detail and better background…
Have you ever made a post, Grey, that doesn’t mention the fact that you have written some book. Available, I’m sure from all reputable bookstores…
 
And what about other needless suffering that we can’t do anything about? The pain that an animal will go through in being eaten by a predator serves no purpose. Why is the natural world set up as it is?
This would seem to me to be a critical question. It may lead to an understanding of the creative mystery of God.

Several observations:
  1. Animal suffering in the predator-prey relationship could be an object lesson to humans in the sense that in a limited (perhaps even fallen) world, love will necessarily involve the suffering of some to provide for the needs of others. If you truly love another, that love, in attempting to provide for the well-being of other will involve suffering and perhaps even death. A love that is unwilling to endure suffering on behalf of the other is no real love. A pseudo-love based upon avoidance of all suffering would sooner tolerate putting other and self out of existence than to endure even a slight inconvenience let alone a measure of hard won pain. This weak love will rationalize the rights of “choice” of any innocuous “good” for some over the very life others on the basis of “least amount of suffering.”
  2. As an extension of the above object lesson, and to show that the use of power to avoid the demands of love is contrary to the very essence of existence, the all-powerful, all-loving God came down to Earth, took the role of prey, allowed Himself to be hunted and killed by predatory world-minded human authorities and then gave Himself, as prey, for food to allow all humanity to be energized by the divine energy, the blood that flowed through the veins of His sacrificed body. Love gives, Love endures, Love sacrifices all on behalf of other.
Why is the natural world set up as it is?

God in all His wisdom has written into the very fabric of nature the sacrifice of Himself on behalf of humanity that demonstrates the cost of love in a manner that we ought not forget. The reason suffering is real is because Love has a very real cost in terms of self-giving on behalf of other that cannot be avoided by rationalizing it away by bland references to rights.
We feel the suffering of others in the depths of our bones because Love is at the heart of our own being, in all creation and, foremost, in the very essence of our Creator. If Love wasn’t central to reality, suffering as felt anguish would not exist. :signofcross:
 
Geesh…you guys are so over my head I wouldn’t even know how to respond. I guess my only response would be, how do you explain the question of does a falling tree in the forest make a noise if no one is around to hear it? I never quite got that one… 🤷
Look at it from a different perspective. That often helps. For example, reword the question.

If a tree falls on the head of a philosopher too dumb to move out of the way, does anyone really care?
 
Atheist philosopher Thomas Nagel has released a book praising people like Meyer, Berlinski and Behe for not being afraid of publicizing their views despite the wrath of the evolution establishment.

evolutionnews.org/2012/08/noted_atheist_p063451.html
Excellent reference, thank you! I especially appreciated the quote:

I believe the defenders of intelligent design deserve our gratitude for challenging a scientific world view that owes some of the passion displayed by its adherents precisely to the fact that it is thought to liberate us from religion. That world view is ripe for displacement…
 
That is not my understanding of BigBang cosmology. No science book I have ever read has described what you are saying here.
Perhaps you should investigate the history of the BB theory. I was part of it, being involved in astronomy during the conversation between Gamow and Hoyle, and participated in “end-of-day and over-a-few-beers” kind of arguments with several astronomers.

The “cosmic micropea” is my personal term for the tiny little lump of mass-energy smaller than a proton that exploded into the Big Bang. If you have only read recent textbooks or obtained your cosmology from Dr. Caca on the documentary channels, you’ve missed an important piece of cosmological history.

Out of curiosity, exactly how did the pre-singularity textbooks describe the initial conditions and cause of the Big Bang? (I was out of school at the time and never read the textbooks.)
 
Have you ever made a post, Grey, that doesn’t mention the fact that you have written some book. Available, I’m sure from all reputable bookstores…
I’ve run up nearly 2000 posts, most of them lengthy. Only since I got the darned book published have I referenced it. Before that, I merely threatened to write it.

Despite having written a previous international best seller (under a different name) I could not find an agent or publisher willing to take on the controversial range of subjects I address. Therefore I self-published, and gave myself permission to write material that no respectable publishing house would allow. It is listed and objectively reviewed on amazon.com, along with a description. I do not know how to get a book into reputable, or even disreputable bookstores, so you’ll not find it there.

I wrote it for atheists who have a residual mind and a touch of curiosity. If you fall into that category and read the book, then pass it along to other atheist friends who are interested in unique ideas, I can quit trying to work up a readership and get on to a much more interesting project— that of engaging the questions that a new theory of creation and human consciousness is certain to provoke.
 
Look at it from a different perspective. That often helps. For example, reword the question.

If a tree falls on the head of a philosopher too dumb to move out of the way, does anyone really care?
Hmmm…now THAT makes me wonder!! 😃
 
Perhaps you should investigate the history of the BB theory. I was part of it, being involved in astronomy during the conversation between Gamow and Hoyle, and participated in “end-of-day and over-a-few-beers” kind of arguments with several astronomers.

The “cosmic micropea” is my personal term for the tiny little lump of mass-energy smaller than a proton that exploded into the Big Bang.
A part of it? Maybe you could be more specific about your connections with Gamov and Hoyle. And point me to anything that references Your legume based theory of the big bang.
 
A part of it? Maybe you could be more specific about your connections with Gamov and Hoyle. And point me to anything that references Your legume based theory of the big bang.
You have answered my question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that. This suggests that corresponding with you will not be worthwhile.

Since I do not believe in the Big Bang, I cannot point you to my theory about it. Of course, my book offers an alternative which does a better job of fitting the facts. I could point you in that direction, but it is not a trivial book, and it is creation-affirmative, so I doubt that you will be capable of understanding enough of it.

Unless you write something which leads me to think that an answer to your question would lead to a constructive conversation, rather than more tiresome atheistic/religious positional defense, I must regard your request as a risk to my personal privacy, and a complete waste of time.
 
  1. A metaphysical theory is an interpretation of reality.
2.Your theory is an interpretation of reality.
  1. Therefore your theory is a metaphysical theory.
This is faulty logic.
  1. An even number is an integer.
  2. Seven is an integer.
  3. Therefore seven is an even number.
A quick Venn diagram will show you your error.

rossum
 
You have answered my question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that. This suggests that corresponding with you will not be worthwhile
You must be confusing a question that you asked someone else with one that you thought that you’d asked me.

If the only pointer to the pea theory of existence is your book, I’ll pass for now. But maybe you can be more specific about your connection with Gamow and Hoyle?

And I’m quite willing to answer any question. Especially if it’s for me.
 
This is faulty logic.
  1. An even number is an integer.
  2. Seven is an integer.
  3. Therefore seven is an even number.
    A quick Venn diagram will show you your error.
rossum
A quick thought will show you your error.

If your theory is not an interpretation of reality it is worthless…
 
Omnipotence does not imply inconsistency.
False deduction. I am implying that there are times and places when God chooses not to act - for reasons I have given.
Needless suffering is all pain and anguish that could be prevented by human beings.And ‘needless’ to me indicates that without need. Without purpose. So needless suffering is suffering that has no purpose. I actually thought of the tsunami as did Sair. Your reply to that is that we need disasters or ‘needless suffering’ to show that we are not being protected by a deity.
We’re going around in a circle. God will prevent needless suffering but…He allows needless suffering to prevent us realising that we are being protected by a benevolent deity.
.He allows **apparently **needless suffering. We have no idea of what animals **feel **especially when they are not in our presence.The immense value of life outweighs unsubstantiated speculation.
And what about other needless suffering that we can’t do anything about? The pain that an animal will go through in being eaten by a predator serves no purpose.
It is impossible for us to know to what extent God mitigates or even eliminates the pain of animals. We have no idea of what they feel.
Why is the natural world set up as it is?
For the benefit of living beings.
 
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