Pachamama Catechisis at a Vatican Christmas concert?

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I think a lot of people used to think like this. But when we read questionable news reports quite often, we wonder if something strange is happening there …
Plus when there is video from an actual event, that is affiliated with the Vatican, that was broadcast and scripted and planned to be broadcast, it’s not like we’re peering through a keyhole.
 
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Did I say their recommendations were offensive? Would they shut people down if they were speaking about other issues in the church?
 
LumineDiei said:
What happens when people knee jerk over a questionable news story (likely from an equally questionable news source) and start commenting all over the internet, stirring up confusion and gossip before the facts come out? That cannot be undone.
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I guess we’re crazy to take a video at face value. A video that was broadcast to millions, no less.
If it was a public presentation, I think it’s fair game for Catholics to ask questions.
 
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This is always the question to ask when someone alleges that the Pope said something controversial, theologically incorrect, heretical, etc.
 
Jen95 said:
I guess we’re crazy to take a video at face value.
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Sometimes, yes. Selective editing, selective “enhancement”, etc. are all fairly common. Not saying that is what happened here, but definitely not saying it couldn’t have happened.
 
I am also just calling them out for poor musical taste…
“and so this is Christmas, and what have we done?!”

 
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Pachamama/Hicha Guaia/Gaia is all the same entity.

She was/is considered a goddess responsible for everything physical in Mother Earth. Her role in the demonic varies wildly. When Catholic missionaries took over the South American region, she was shoehorned into attributes given to the Virgin Mary to make conversion much easier as there was a huge educational gap between the learned missionaries and the heathen tribesmen.

Wicca and other sorts of witchcraft, have an enormous following dedicated to her. She also plays a bit part in the forthcoming antics of the Antichrist. A little more research I found that some people consider her a sister of both Belial and Astaroth. Somewhere along the line, she realized they wanted to destroy Earth so she separated from them and took up to defending the Earth.

Trickiest part about this whole situation is Pachamama/Hicha Guaia/Gaia’s real name. Referencing some demon compendiums I don’t see the name. But given to centuries if not eons of the name being transformed, it’s difficult to know the true background. The Incas believed her symbol to be that of a menacing serpent or dragon. Inca children were ritualistically sacrificed to her. Pachamama is still highly revered as a fertility cult goddess in South America.

Why is Pachamama/Hicha Guaia/Gaia a thing at the Vatican in the first place remains a mystery.
 
Marco Tosatti is the journalist who wrote or published Arch.Vigano’s letters or the first one at least.
Plus “ Viganò against the Vatican “.
I knew he sounded familiar…
 
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TheLittleLady said:
What are the posters here feelings about these lines:

All praise be yours, my Lord, through Sister Earth, our Mother,
Who feeds us in her sovereignty and produces
Various fruits with colored flowers and herbs.

Canticle of Brother Sun and Sister Moon of St. Francis of Assisi
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I think it is a false equivalency to compare this prayer of St. Francis to explicit pagan practices at the Vatican. Francis is worshipping the Lord through Nature. He is not worshipping nature itself.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
Apparently the term “Mother Earth” is problematic.
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Depends how you are using it! Praying TO Mother Earth is the problem. Worshipping Mother Earth is the problem. Especially at the Vatican, where the truth of Christ is supposed to be proclaimed.
 
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The difference is that St Francis always put God front and center. He also did not draw any parallels between earth or nature goddesses and Mother Mary. St Francis’ approach is fine.

Unfortunately Pachamama was not presented in the manner of St Francis and has repeatedly been put on the same level as the Virgin Mary. Not fine. Reminds me more of the goddess Tonantzin or similar. But like I said, I’m done getting wound up about it.
 
I think you might not see an English transcript of a pop charity concert from the Vatican. Can you give us a benign explanation of the Earth Mother moment?
 
LumineDiei said:
The point of my post was for each of us to think about our place and whether it is our job ( it’s not) to criticize the Holy Father and sow more seeds of dissension by posting every little juicy tidbit we read or hear about him?
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Pachamama is an Abomination… It has sowed dissension … Who was behind it?

IF by any stretch is was solidly known that pope Francis supports dissension,
then it’s one’s duty to call attention to it.
 
LumineDiei said:
Then please tell us how one is to respectfully, lawfully, and most of all, charitably, call public attention to it an issue in a way that is appropriate for the laity without resorting to gossip, slander, name-calling, or disrespect to the Holy Father, Pope Francis.
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Read through the first article linked in this thread. It is “just the facts, ma’am”. No name-calling, gossip, slander, or disrespect. Just a factual report of what happened. Read it and you will see. Quote us anything that you think is slander, disrespect, or gossip.
 
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It’s not always a direct one to one sort of pagan connection. The subtleties imbued through these prayers, or even prayer circles on Vatican property all connect. I hear Pope Francis mention this Mother Earth nonsense a whole lot more than I’ve ever even heard him mention of the souls in Purgatory. Attacks against the Church are going to be subtle. Satan got in the Vatican supposedly as a wisp of smoke through a crack. Mother Earth stuff like this is a similar entrance.

A huge part of this nobody likes to address is the heathen vs the educated debate. Large portions of these indigenous tribes in South America do not have the educational capacity to fully rationalize the Bible, let alone a Catechism or otherwise. Trying to overturn centuries of their own religious system in the face of Catholicism hasn’t worked; so the next attempt is to BRIDGE the too. In this bridging is the problem.
 
You call a spade a spade. That’s it. The Pachamamma has been revealed to be a pagan god(aka a demon), used in South American rituals of pagan worship. The Holy Father has even confirmed that they are Pachamammas because he called them that himself. It is quite clear that he knew of their use during the synod because those events don’t just happen, and the Holy Father happens to show up. Just for the benefit of the doubt though, let’s say he had absolutely no idea of their use during the synod(where they were quite obviously worshipped), he certainly knew about them after the synod from the large outcry of faithful Catholics against this pagan deity. So the fact that this demonic idol is still being presented at Vatican functions is very alarming and saddening.
Like someone els has stated, if the people who should be calling out the pope, like Cardinals and Bishops, are largely remaining silent then it is up to the rest of the church to do it. That being your local priests and laymen. It’s not slander or gossiping whenever something wrong has clearly been done and you speak out against it. Even the Holy Father is still human and still makes mistakes.
 
LumineDiei said:
Then please tell us how one is to respectfully, lawfully, and most of all, charitably, call public attention to it an issue in a way that is appropriate for the laity without resorting to gossip, slander, name-calling, or disrespect to the Holy Father, Pope Francis.
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For the sake of charity, let’s assume that for whyever reasons - this pope is unaware of what now amounts to a sequence of serious concerns for all Catholics and even Non-Catholics - which e.g., preceded, includes and has come after - “Pachamama”…

There’s been no hiding of these serious situations - some of which involves other individuals - including Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Nuns… There’s Divisions… And, Silence and Coverup is the very last thing which anyone should suggest that Catholics MUST BE…

I always strive to leave open the door for a possible/probable innocent pope
  • but as for the Vatican? And some of the personnel?
 
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