Padre Pio and Vatican II

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Did Padre Pio accept Vatican II and the post-concilliar Magisterium? Because many Traditionalists who oppose the Vatican II “errors” look up to Padre Pio as a role model. I’ve heard some even say that he refused to celebrate the New Mass and didn’t accept Vatican II and the post-concilliar Magisterium because he wanted to remain faithful to Catholic Tradition. Of course he spent most of his years in ministry in the pre-concilliar Church.
 
Padre Pio died just a few years after Vatican II ended. He was a Franciscan and so obedient to the Pope and the Church. I highly doubt that he publically said anything against Vatican II (or anything privately for that matter). It is true that he (and many other older priests) were not required to learn or say the “new Mass”, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone thought poorly of it, simply that they were being thoughtful of those older priests.
 
Catholic4Jesus said:
Did Padre Pio accept Vatican II and the post-concilliar Magisterium? Because many Traditionalists who oppose the Vatican II “errors” look up to Padre Pio as a role model. I’ve heard some even say that he refused to celebrate the New Mass and didn’t accept Vatican II and the post-concilliar Magisterium because he wanted to remain faithful to Catholic Tradition. Of course he spent most of his years in ministry in the pre-concilliar Church.
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If anything, Padre Pio was obedient.

To use the word “refuse” in terms of saying Mass is akin to slandering his name - and I don’t suggest you are as you write what you have heard others say.

It is my understanding that he received specific permission to say the EF as opposed to the OF (and since Benedict 16 referred to it in those terms, I will use them).

As to your other questions, please see the first sentance. People can and do say all sorts of things about him; it is easy to do as he is no longer here to refute them; but as humble and obedient as he was in his life, I am not sure he would have refuted them publicly while he was alive.

It should be kept in mind that those who want to reject Vatican 2 and the Magisterium also reject the Gospels and the words of Christ; it is no secret that the Church has always held that in matters of faith and morals the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error.

The documents of Vatican 2, contrary to some of the charges that are made about them, are not so vague or poorly written that they cannot be understood, although we have witnessed laity, theologians, priests and even bishops declaring so.
 
Catholic4Jesus said:
Did Padre Pio accept Vatican II and the post-concilliar Magisterium? Because many Traditionalists who oppose the Vatican II “errors” look up to Padre Pio as a role model. I’ve heard some even say that he refused to celebrate the New Mass and didn’t accept Vatican II and the post-concilliar Magisterium because he wanted to remain faithful to Catholic Tradition. Of course he spent most of his years in ministry in the pre-concilliar Church.
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Regarding the Mass, it’s a moot point, since the first typical edition of the Mass of Paul VI was not promulgated until April 3 1969 (vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19690403_missale-romanum_en.html) and St Pio died on Sept 23, 1968.
 
IesumPerMariam said:
Regarding the Mass, it’s a moot point, since the first typical edition of the Mass of Paul VI was not promulgated until April 3 1969 (vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19690403_missale-romanum_en.html) and St Pio died on Sept 23, 1968.
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The term “new Mass” does not necessarily refer to the missal of Paul VI. There were reforms and experiments before the Paul VI and his missal. The Mass in vernacular was already permitted in various countries: France (1946), Belgium (1948), Croatia (1929), Czechoslovakia (1920), Slovenia (1933) Germany (1943). There were also experiments facing the people since at least 1935. Facing the people did not exist before that, I think, except in churches where there was no other way for the priest to face the East. Padre Pio’s final Mass was celebrated facing the people. According to a book I read years ago (I forgot the title, but it appeared well researched), Padre Pio was ordered to do so by a superior who wished to promote the coming missal. Padre Pio was always obedient to legitimate authority, so we can’t know what he thought about the experiment.
 
Genesis315 said:
St. Pio wrote a letter to Pope Paul VI in 1968 which I think is helpful for this question:

ewtn.com/library/MARY/PIOPOPE.HTM
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The letter is breathtaking.

Availing myself of Your Holiness’ meeting with the Capitular Fathers, I unite myself in spirit with my Brothers, and in a spirit of faith, love and obedience to the greatness of Him whom you represent on earth, offer my respectful homage to Your August Person, humbly kneeling at Your feet. …

Reading that moved me deeply. I wish I could write like that. Thank you for posting it.

-Tim-
 
Found on the EWTN website about Padre Pio:
Owing to the era in which he lived the Mass which Padre Pio offered was according to the Missal as it existed before the Second Vatican Council (the so-called Tridentine Mass, named after the Council of Trent). When the new Rites began to appear in the mid 1960s (finalized in 1969 after his death) Padre Pio continued to celebrate the old. It has been alleged by some that this was due to his dissatisfaction with the liturgical changes. However, this was not the case. Already over 80 years of age and going blind the only practical way for Padre Pio to offer the Mass was to pray the one he had been celebrating for 50 years. This same privilege was granted by law to all elderly priests.
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Padre Pio
 
Genesis315 said:
St. Pio wrote a letter to Pope Paul VI in 1968 which I think is helpful for this question:

ewtn.com/library/MARY/PIOPOPE.HTM
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Wow that is amazing. If only some could read this. He speaks specifically of his sufferings in regards to the Pope and his sufferings because of what’s happened in the Church and how he thanks him for the infallible teachings taht he has provided us for.
 
Dolezal said:
The term “new Mass” does not necessarily refer to the missal of Paul VI. There were reforms and experiments before the Paul VI and his missal. The Mass in vernacular was already permitted in various countries: France (1946), Belgium (1948), Croatia (1929), Czechoslovakia (1920), Slovenia (1933) Germany (1943). There were also experiments facing the people since at least 1935. Facing the people did not exist before that, I think, except in churches where there was no other way for the priest to face the East. Padre Pio’s final Mass was celebrated facing the people. According to a book I read years ago (I forgot the title, but it appeared well researched), Padre Pio was ordered to do so by a superior who wished to promote the coming missal. Padre Pio was always obedient to legitimate authority, so we can’t know what he thought about the experiment.
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Praying ad Orientem is totally unconnected to the form of the Mass. The Missal of Paul VI indicates in the rubrics:

“Sacerdos, ad populum conversus…” “Sacerdos… ad populum versus, clara voce dicit” “Et sacerdos, ad altare versus, secreto dicit” “…sacerdos, versus ad populum, iunctis manibus, dicit” “Sacerdos, versus ad populum…”

All which suggest that it is possible, even assumed, that this Form of the Holy Mass is celebrated ad Orientem as well.

And of course the TLM could also be licitly celebrated versus populum, as it always has been done at the Papal Altar in St Peter’s Basilica on account of the Confessio with St Peter’s tomb making it impossible to do otherwise.
 
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