Padre Pio on The Universe

[matt1985]

The Universe

Padre Pio was told by Mons. Fanton: “They say that on other planets there are more
creatures of God.”
Padre Pio’s answer: “And you wanted that the Omnipotence of God was limited to
the little planet Heart? And you wanted that there weren’t other creatures loving the
Lord?”
Still Mons. Fanton said: “Padre, I have been thinking that the Earth is nothing,
compared to all the other stars and planets.” Padre Pio replied: “Yes, we born on the
Earth are nothing. The Lord has certainly not restricted his glory to this little planet.
On other planets there might be beings that have not sinned like we did.”

caccioppoli.com/Padre%20Pio%20time%20line,%20words,%20facts.pdf

This is a facinating quote from one of the most popular figures in modern Catholic theology. I never heard another Catholic or religious person float this proposal. Is it possible that the Garden of Eden exists on another planet in the Universe? Did this Eden go un-destroyed by sin? I find this theory to be fascinating and likely given the recent discovery of the fact that billions of earth-like planets exists in our galaxy. I think the number was around 60B planets or star systems.

And if you can’t find intelligent life on 60 billion potential planets in our galaxy that could harbor life, you can travel to the biggest galaxy IC1101, where over 100 trillion stars exist!

I find it interesting and encouraging that he believed this theory.

-Matt

 

[fred_conty]

IMO, it would be difficult for me to imagine other rational beings on other planets for this reason.

Suppose someday we have the ability to space travel, and we go to one of these planets, and then have mixed marriages, that is, from our planet and theirs. Original sin is passed down by us to our children. That means that those of other planets free from original sin, that their children would now have original sin and concupisense. That could be a problem.

Just a thought.​

“May the lives of those we touch sing praise to God above.” (hymn)

 

[Nimzovik]

What an interesting concept. Or worse! What if the alien species is doomed to hell upon death? Would there not be restrictions?

However I would think that such is an easy matter for God to deal with; not of sufficient reason to preclude God from creating other species. The title for God is ‘The Creator’ - yes? I am quite sure that even more creating is occurring.

Hmmmmmmmmm… Perhaps this link (Jerusalem UFO) is relevant:

youtube.com/watch?v=27x5n2ZVgvE

 

[Memaw]

What an interesting concept. Or worse! What if the alien species is doomed to hell upon death? Would there not be restrictions?

However I would think that such is an easy matter for God to deal with; not of sufficient reason to preclude God from creating other species. The title for God is ‘The Creator’ - yes? I am quite sure that even more creating is occurring.

Hmmmmmmmmm… Perhaps this link (Jerusalem UFO) is relevant:

youtube.com/watch?v=27x5n2ZVgvE

I have read a lot of Padre Pio’s writings and have never ever come across anything like this, Please show us some real “proof” that he ever said such a thing. Many times our Saints and Holy people have been accused of saying and doing strange things. My Mom used to say, “Take everything you hear with a grain of salt.” God Bless, Memaw

 

[Prodigal_Son]

IMO, it would be difficult for me to imagine other rational beings on other planets for this reason.

Suppose someday we have the ability to space travel, and we go to one of these planets, and then have mixed marriages, that is, from our planet and theirs. Original sin is passed down by us to our children. That means that those of other planets free from original sin, that their children would now have original sin and concupisense. That could be a problem.

Two assumptions here: (1) That we could reproduce with aliens. Seems very unlikely. (2) That original sin is passed down biologically. Also questionable.

 

[Nimzovik]

I have read a lot of Padre Pio’s writings and have never ever come across anything like this, Please show us some real “proof” that he ever said such a thing. Many times our Saints and Holy people have been accused of saying and doing strange things. My Mom used to say, “Take everything you hear with a grain of salt.” God Bless, Memaw

Indeed. I would like to know the source as well.

 

[Layp3rs0n]

I have often wondered: If other races live elsewhere in the Universe, and they have fallen from Grace, has the Second person of the Trinity had to suffer and die on their planets as well? Would the Second Coming occur on all inhabited planets simultaneously? Then at the Resurrection will we see numerous Incarnations of the Word of God in all the various forms He would have taken? Such a concept seems blasphemous to me. But maybe I’m wrong.

 

[dailey]

I have read a lot of Padre Pio’s writings and have never ever come across anything like this, Please show us some real “proof” that he ever said such a thing. Many times our Saints and Holy people have been accused of saying and doing strange things. My Mom used to say, “Take everything you hear with a grain of salt.” God Bless, Memaw

Me too. Padre Pio is one of my favorite saints and I admit when I read this I was a bit disappointed. I don’t believe in aliens and have always thought that satan was behind it to keep us busy, therefore, neglecting our true responsibilities.

 

[empther]

From prodigal_son’s post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred conty
IMO, it would be difficult for me to imagine other rational beings on other planets for this reason.

Suppose someday we have the ability to space travel, and we go to one of these planets, and then have mixed marriages, that is, from our planet and theirs. Original sin is passed down by us to our children. That means that those of other planets free from original sin, that their children would now have original sin and concupisense. That could be a problem.

Two assumptions here: (1) That we could reproduce with aliens. Seems very unlikely. (2) That original sin is passed down biologically. Also questionable.

( 1 ) We could not reproduce with aliens.
Our DNA has four sugars: adenine, thionine, guanine, and uracil. ( Forgive me if I mispelled anything. It’s been a long time. ) There’s nothing magic about these four. In fact, there are thousands of others that would work as well. Aliens would likely have different sugars. It is pure chance that we have our four sugars.
Also,
DNA information is translated by transfer RNA bodies that use a triplet code to represent each amino acid. There is nothing magic about this code. In fact, any one of billions of codes would do as well. It is pure chance that we have our code.
Also,
there is nothing magic about the sequence in which our DNA’s genes are arranged on our chromosomes. There are a trillion trillion trillion other arrangements that would work as well. Ours is pure chance. The odds of an alien’s DNA gene sequence being identical to allow cross-breeding is virtually impossible.
Also,
we have 46 chromosomes but there’s nothing magic about that number. I think gorillas have 49. Other animals have other numbers etc. Aliens may have ten, or a thousand, so cross-breeding would be impossible.
Also,
all biochemistry is mediated by proteins. We have about a hundred thousand of them, but there are potentially a trillion trillion trillion of them. There’s nothing magic about our one hundred thousand proteins. Countless others would do as well. It’s possible we might not have a single protein in common with Mr. Spock. Cross-breeding is impossible.

Boy, I hate knowing everything!

( 2 ) God may choose to have many civilizations in the universe each with its own salvation plan and Redeemer if one is needed.
We would have no obligation, allegiance, duties, or any other relationship to another civilization’s salvation plan and Redeemer.
We have Christ and that’s all we have to worry about.

 

[fred_conty]

Two assumptions here: (1) That we could reproduce with aliens. Seems very unlikely. (2) That original sin is passed down biologically. Also questionable.

If the aliens were people like us, then they could. There are billions of galaxies. Who knows how many other planets exist like ours.

Original sin is not passed down biologically, this is true, but …

CCC Paragraph # 419
“We therefore hold, with the Council of Trent, that original sin is transmitted with human nature, “by propagation, not by imitation” and that it is. . . ‘proper to each’”

CCC Paragraph # 417
…transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called “original sin”

CCC Paragraph # 416
By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all human beings.

Just some more thoughts.​

“O come and sit at my table where saints and sinners are friends.” (hymn)

 

[tafan]

The Universe

caccioppoli.com/Padre%20Pio%20time%20line,%20words,%20facts.pdf

This is a facinating quote from one of the most popular figures in modern Catholic theology. I never heard another Catholic or religious person float this proposal. Is it possible that the Garden of Eden exists on another planet in the Universe? Did this Eden go un-destroyed by sin? I find this theory to be fascinating and likely given the recent discovery of the fact that billions of earth-like planets exists in our galaxy. I think the number was around 60B planets or star systems.

And if you can’t find intelligent life on 60 billion potential planets in our galaxy that could harbor life, you can travel to the biggest galaxy IC1101, where over 100 trillion stars exist!

I find it interesting and encouraging that he believed this theory.

-Matt

It seems the argument for other intelligent life is always based upon the immense size of the universe. I find this argument quite unconvincing. Both from a philosophical/theological argument, and from a scientific/mathematical perspective.

Considering the former perspective: the size of the universe, considering that God is infinite, is quite immaterial as to what His created and where. God could have lots of reasons for making the universe as vast as it is, but perhaps the most logical is the vastness of the universe is the result of the physical laws of the universe, ie given the physical laws God created, the universe was going to end up being really big. Now, that does not mean He would have to create intelligent life with immortal souls more than once, nor does it mean He would not have. Its just not really relevant.

From a scientific viewpoint. The vastness of the universe is known via science. But science has yet to present us with any other evidence of intelligent life elsewhere. Hence, it becomes a argument based on statistics. But it is not statistically correct to say that given enough tries at something, a given result is bound to occur. You can put trillions of monkeys in front of typewriters, but you will never get one of them to write Shakespeare’s Hamlet. So we really need more evidence besides the vastness of the universe.

 

[Peebo]

It is entirely irrelevant to us if God created life throughout the universe…it has nothing to do with our salvation… at the last judgment when we are reconciled with God through our Blessed Savior… then we will see and understand the majesty of Gods creation…the bible tells us that we cannot even imagine what God has prepared for us.

 

[Memaw]

From prodigal_son’s post:

( 1 ) We could not reproduce with aliens.
Our DNA has four sugars: adenine, thionine, guanine, and uracil. ( Forgive me if I mispelled anything. It’s been a long time. ) There’s nothing magic about these four. In fact, there are thousands of others that would work as well. Aliens would likely have different sugars. It is pure chance that we have our four sugars.
Also,
DNA information is translated by transfer RNA bodies that use a triplet code to represent each amino acid. There is nothing magic about this code. In fact, any one of billions of codes would do as well. It is pure chance that we have our code.
Also,
there is nothing magic about the sequence in which our DNA’s genes are arranged on our chromosomes. There are a trillion trillion trillion other arrangements that would work as well. Ours is pure chance. The odds of an alien’s DNA gene sequence being identical to allow cross-breeding is virtually impossible.
Also,
we have 46 chromosomes but there’s nothing magic about that number. I think gorillas have 49. Other animals have other numbers etc. Aliens may have ten, or a thousand, so cross-breeding would be impossible.
Also,
all biochemistry is mediated by proteins. We have about a hundred thousand of them, but there are potentially a trillion trillion trillion of them. There’s nothing magic about our one hundred thousand proteins. Countless others would do as well. It’s possible we might not have a single protein in common with Mr. Spock. Cross-breeding is impossible.

Boy, I hate knowing everything!

( 2 ) God may choose to have many civilizations in the universe each with its own salvation plan and Redeemer if one is needed.
We would have no obligation, allegiance, duties, or any other relationship to another civilization’s salvation plan and Redeemer.
We have Christ and that’s all we have to worry about.

Maybe you do but it does give us something to chew on for awhile, ha. Thanks God Bless, Memaw

 

[openmind77]

It seems the argument for other intelligent life is always based upon the immense size of the universe. I find this argument quite unconvincing. Both from a philosophical/theological argument, and from a scientific/mathematical perspective.

Considering the former perspective: the size of the universe, considering that God is infinite, is quite immaterial as to what His created and where. God could have lots of reasons for making the universe as vast as it is, but perhaps the most logical is the vastness of the universe is the result of the physical laws of the universe, ie given the physical laws God created, the universe was going to end up being really big. Now, that does not mean He would have to create intelligent life with immortal souls more than once, nor does it mean He would not have. Its just not really relevant.

From a scientific viewpoint. The vastness of the universe is known via science. But science has yet to present us with any other evidence of intelligent life elsewhere. Hence, it becomes a argument based on statistics. But it is not statistically correct to say that given enough tries at something, a given result is bound to occur. You can put trillions of monkeys in front of typewriters, but you will never get one of them to write Shakespeare’s Hamlet. So we really need more evidence besides the vastness of the universe.

I am not sure when this story was published, but it seems to say that there is a good chance that aliens exist: catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=410

 

[Nimzovik]

Interesting link. It would seem the ball is now in the opposition’s court now…

 

[matt1985]

I don’t have a way to prove the link is correct, but it does sound like his style of writing. I heard a few of the other quotes. There may be no way to verify what Padre Pio said about the Universe.

But that being said, we probably won’t find a way to travel to enough stars in order to find intelligent beings. Our galaxy is 100K light years in diameter, and traveling 4 light years at the speed of the voyager probe, 11 miles per second would take about 40k years. God seemed to space the planets very far away from each other. It is also difficult to say that even if you could travel at the speed of light what the probability of you finding a civilization would even be.

There are many terrestrial bodies in our solar system that have no civilizations. We haven’t even found a microbe on the moon or mars. But ultimately I see no conflict with the existence of an alien civilization with the bible.

 

[openmind77]

… But ultimately I see no conflict with the existence of an alien civilization with the bible.

The conflict if any between the existence of an alien civilization and the bible, is in the story of creation and that of Adam and Eve. Even if we don’t take it literally as many people do, the story appears incomplete. Does the story apply to aliens? Did the aliens have there own Eden? Did they fall or not? And then the question of Jesus and his mission - does his suffering redeem the aliens or do they not need redemption at all? Do they have their own Christ who redeems them?

Of course the big issue would be when the aliens finally land on earth - what will their reaction be when someone explains to them that Jesus is their Savior?

 

[empther]

Did the aliens have there own Eden? Did they fall or not? And then the question of Jesus and his mission - does his suffering redeem the aliens or do they not need redemption at all? Do they have their own Christ who redeems them?

Of course the big issue would be when the aliens finally land on earth - what will their reaction be when someone explains to them that Jesus is their Savior?

God makes the rules. He can do what he wants.

I have posted the following on this forum and the catholic.org forum,
but…
one more time.

If God chooses to do so,
each civilization could have its own Redeemer. The Vulcan Redeemer would be the Son of God, but he would have a Vulcan body and soul.

God makes the rules. There is no reason that the Son of God couldn’t take up to himself a Earth man and a Vulcan man.

God makes the rules.

So, would we have to have allegiance to the Vulcan Redeemer, and would Vulcans have to have allediance to Christ? No.
Each civilization has its own salvation plan. We only have to follow the commandments of Jesus, and the Vulcans only have to follow their Redeemer if this is how God chose to do things.

I have proposed this scenario on the catholic.org forum years ago. On that forum people take no nonsense. Anything that smells of heresy or deviation from Church teachings is instantly slammed.
Nobody has ever contested my idea. Apparently nobody can find anything wrong with it.

---

However, I have also said that God could also choose to keep civilizations forever separate from each other, both in this life and the next.
Why would he do that? I don’t know, but if that’s what he chooses that’s what will be done.

 

[tafan]

The conflict if any between the existence of an alien civilization and the bible, is in the story of creation and that of Adam and Eve. Even if we don’t take it literally as many people do, the story appears incomplete. Does the story apply to aliens? Did the aliens have there own Eden? Did they fall or not? And then the question of Jesus and his mission - does his suffering redeem the aliens or do they not need redemption at all? Do they have their own Christ who redeems them?

Of course the big issue would be when the aliens finally land on earth - what will their reaction be when someone explains to them that Jesus is their Savior?

Hard to see how aliens, if they are fallen, would have their own Christ to redeem them. We know the following: God is three persons (not 4 or 5 or 6 or 7), Jesus Christ has two natures (not 4,5, or 6, or umpteen).

That does not say that an alien race has to be fallen, perhaps we are the only fallen intelligent race (besides some of the angels). But if we are positing aliens exist only due to the vastness of the universe, ie statistics, it seems strange that we would be the only fallen race.

But of course, God could have other means of redeeming other fallen races.

So certainly they could exist. But I think we need some evidence before we waste too much time speculating on them.

(note: perhaps race should be species throughout this post).

 

[tafan]

I am not sure when this story was published, but it seems to say that there is a good chance that aliens exist: catholic.net/index.php?option=dedestaca&id=410

You are reading too much into this article, the priest’s argument is that it is a “possibility”, which I do not dispute. And, like all scientists on this subject, his only evidence is the vastness of the universe, nothing else. As I said before, that does not convince me at all.

So I might be surprised when I die and find there are other intelligent life.