Padre Pio said Lucifer can impersonate Our Lady

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yehuda_Dion
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So do you believe 1) No saints ever had psychological problems? 2) No one can be truly good, and therefore become a saint, if they have psychological problems? 3) Saints may have had psychological problems but if so we should not speak of them? 4) Other Saints had psychological problems but not Padre Pio?

My comment was what I genuinely consider to be the most likely explanation. i am happy to be dissuaded from that view on the basis of evidence. But I do not think it is reasonable to give more orders about the things on which i may express a view. I realise that lack of belief is distressing for some Catholics, but I always try to avoid offence while still expressing my opinion. If my post was offensive, I apologise for this. Prehaps you could PM me with some guidance on how to better express my thoughts as a person who does not believe.
I believe 3). No offense intended at all, but reverence for deceased Saints is a prominent pillar of the Catholic faith. IMO true Catholics, and all non-Catholics who post in a Catholic forum, should observe this pillar. God himself instigated and he himself maintains reverence for the deceased Saints in the life of holy Catholics. You may not believe, or not yet anyway, but show the proper respect the Saints deserve. It’s only right to do so.
 
I believe 3). No offense intended at all, but reverence for deceased Saints is a prominent pillar of the Catholic faith. IMO true Catholics, and all non-Catholics who post in a Catholic forum, should observe this pillar. God himself instigated and he himself maintains reverence for the deceased Saints in the life of holy Catholics. You may not believe, or not yet anyway, but show the proper respect the Saints deserve. It’s only right to do so.
Yehuda,

When I read your post it sounds as if you think there is something irreverent to suggest that a Saint may have had some sort of psychological or mental health issue.

I see no irreverence at all and I love the Saints. They, like us, were very human and had the capacity to suffer not only physical maladies, but also psychological/mental health as well.

There is no shame in either. There are legitimate medical issues. It’s a real part of our broken world. And the Saints were not exempt from them.

And it wouldnt have prevent them (or us) from becoming Saints.
 
OP, it’s no wonder you were frightened. That website is stocked full of hell stories and serves no valid purpose in helping the average Catholic, who is most unlikely to experience such things. Sensationalism and reports of occult happenings is not the way to bring devotion and healing love to a soul. Better for you to read the scriptures where you will be lifted, rather than cast down, and avoid these unscrupulous tales of demonic activity.
 
I also have read what the OP posted. There is no reason to doubt it as far as I can see.

It is nothing to worry about - and it reminds us that we should not place our faith in private revelations unless they are approved by the Church as “worthy of belief.” We place our faith in the gospel, in the teaching authority of the Church, in the efficacy of the Church’s sacraments, etc. That way, we can’t go wrong.

Many saints - including St. Bernadette at Lourdes - “tested” the apparitions to make sure they were not a trick of the evil one. I do not think St. Pio had “psychological problems,” by the way.

Also, don’t be afraid of the evil one. Only be afraid of our own tendencies to sin. The evil one can do nothing to you that you don’t invite on yourself.

Remember what St. Teresa of Avila wrote:

“I am more afraid of those who are terrified of the devil than I am of the devil himself.”

Also, even better, this from her, also:

“I know by frequent experience that there is nothing which puts the devils to flight like holy water.”

“Let nothing disturb you.
Let nothing make you afraid.
All things are passing.
God alone never changes.
Patience gains all things.
If you have God you will want for nothing.
God alone suffices.”
 
‘Truth is the first casualty in war’… and the NT has many references to the on going spiritual warfare of just simply living our daily lives.

Deception = untruth = lie 👍
 
It seems to me that these experiences are likely to be the result of a psychological problem. Was Padre Pio ever given the opportunity for scientific psychiatric evaluation?
I suggest you read something of Padre Pio. If you think he is a fabrication of the Church - you have no idea of the history. There are lots of people with psychiatric problems that claim all sorts of things. Padre Pio, however, had remarkable and simply unexplainable things happen around him.

Since Padre Pio lived in modern times (Died in 1968), you might find it worth your while to learn about his life.
 
As has been stated here, it is always good to test the spirits. As mentioned above in an earlier post, St. Bernadette of Lourdes wasn’t sure of the origin of her apparition at first, and she tested it.

Here is an accounting of the second apparition:

Second apparition

On February 14th, the girls insisted on receiving permission to return to the grotto. Everyone thought that what happened to Bernadette was from the devil, and she was told to return to the grotto and pour holy water. This way, the devil will flee and all will be at peace.

When arriving at the Grotto, Bernadette asked the people to kneel and pray the holy rosary. The Blessed Mother appeared again. Bernadette’s face was transfigured. She sprinkled holy water and said: “ If you come from God, come near us.” The holy water touched the Blessed Mother’s feet and Mary came closer to Bernadette with a gentle smile . She took the holy rosary and made the sign of the cross. Both started to pray.​

It is certainly never wrong to test the spirits. Holy Mother Church never accepts any apparitions at face value. There is always an investigiation.
 
Sometimes it is very easy to get excited about various apparitions and private revelations and it is very, very, difficult to discern where all these things come from. Therefore, it is best to follow only the Church approved private revelations (for example, Fatima, Lourdes). It is also important to realize that these revelations are private and nobody is required to believe in them. The public revelation of God ended with the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles and various letters included in the Bible. All we need for our eternal salvation is in this public revelation, the guidance of the Church, and the seven sacraments. Therefore, do not needlessly worry about the visions of Padre Pio or what various apparitions say. Follow the Church, partake in the sacraments often (especially the Eucharist and Confession) and you will be fine.
Exactly. People should’nt be following the ‘‘latest apparition’’ which is mainly what happens these days. We should listen to the Church- Approved apparitions and the Church itself.
 
Exactly. People should’nt be following the ‘‘latest apparition’’ which is mainly what happens these days. We should listen to the Church- Approved apparitions and the Church itself.
People find facination where they will. BTW Saint Padre Pio confirmed Garabandal was indeed the Blessed Virgin Mother:shrug: However it is still under investigation by the CC. Fatima is approved, still the Pope is whom we all follow…No? Not to start on these issue’s …please. Just Sayin.

However…I tend to agree with Sirach2…👍

"OP, it’s no wonder you were frightened. That website is stocked full of hell stories and serves no valid purpose in helping the average Catholic, who is most unlikely to experience such things. Sensationalism and reports of occult happenings is not the way to bring devotion and healing love to a soul. Better for you to read the scriptures where you will be lifted, rather than cast down, and avoid these unscrupulous tales of demonic activity. "

Church. Eucharist, Prayer, Bible…sounds like whats in order.
 
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Padre Pio said Lucifer can impersonate Our Lady
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokomai forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
It seems to me that these experiences are likely to be the result of a psychological problem. Was Padre Pio ever given the opportunity for scientific psychiatric evaluation?
I suggest you read something of Padre Pio. If you think he is a fabrication of the Church - you have no idea of the history. There are lots of people with psychiatric problems that claim all sorts of things. Padre Pio, however, had remarkable and simply unexplainable things happen around him.
Since Padre Pio lived in modern times (Died in 1968), you might find it worth your while to learn about his life.
Yes I have read a bit about him. I think he is interesting as a very “Catholic” person who would, I imagine have little appeal to protestants (compared with,say, Mother Theresa). I think it a great pity that some of the miracles attributed to him were not the subject of scientific testing, since bi-location, stigmata etc would be easy to test under controlled conditions. I am not saying anyone ‘fabricated’ the events of his life, but I do think that the potential for fabrication should be eliminated before conclusions are drawn, and that conclusions should be based on evidence, properly tested.
 
Yes I have read a bit about him. I think he is interesting as a very “Catholic” person who would, I imagine have little appeal to protestants (compared with,say, Mother Theresa). I think it a great pity that some of the miracles attributed to him were not the subject of scientific testing, since bi-location, stigmata etc would be easy to test under controlled conditions. I am not saying anyone ‘fabricated’ the events of his life, but I do think that the potential for fabrication should be eliminated before conclusions are drawn, and that conclusions should be based on evidence, properly tested.
Stigmata - tested by an atheist doctor. Doctor claims that the wounds were caused through “Padre Pio’s hysteria” - a statement which itself is crazy.
Bi-location - demonstrated to the Vatican directly to reverse their gag order on Padre Pio. He was held in confinement in San Giovanni

I do think that claiming that science was not involved is a false claim.

Also, the Church has no interest in approving something without eliminating all possible natural causes. If you’re able to prove that Padre Pio’s gifts were fabricated, you’d go a long way toward destroying the Church.
 
I think we need to see Father Pio in the context of all the saints who have lived from
the time of the apostles. It is this stream of saints and extrodinary things they did
that paint the picture of godliness. Fr. Pio was only one among a number who had
the stigmata. He was one among several who was able to read sins on the souls
of those who came to him in confession. Any outstanding power of all these saints
reflect what Peter did when in the Acts it said they laid the sick along the way he
was coming so his shaddow would fall on them and make them well. Fr. Pio is not
just an isolated case but one among many thruout history. But the real proof is more
then miracles, it is their tireless dedication to Jesus in whom they found him in need.
It is their giving so much whenever asked that is the trademark of all these saints.
And I believe it was in the gospel where Jesus said that his followers would do these
things. If anyone has doubts, grab one of the lives of the saints. “your will know them
by their fruits.”

Just a thought.
 
of course
the devil or Satan can do such diabolical impersonations or deceptions. He is the father of lies.
Simply say a Hail Mary or ask the apparition to join in the Hail Mary . This has been done in the past . Correct me if I am wrong , Our Lady of Lourdes prayed with the seer St Bernadette.
Or bless the apparition with Holy Water!!!.

the devil never will join in prayers to Jesus and Holy Mary, He also flies from Holy water.

Our Lord allows these trials for our spiritual growth. The royal road to heaven is by the cross , say the saints , not by easy suger coated situations. To build any strength requires repeated actions of struggle and sacrifice. No pain no gain.

Our Lord and our Lady and the Saints are always there to help us.
God bless you in your spiritual life . Keep up the good work, and good search and struggle.
 
Well, as stated in Lourdes…For those who Believe no explaination is needed, for those who do not Believe, none can be provided!
 
It seems to me that these experiences are likely to be the result of a psychological problem. Was Padre Pio ever given the opportunity for scientific psychiatric evaluation?
So do you believe 1) No saints ever had psychological problems? 2) No one can be truly good, and therefore become a saint, if they have psychological problems? 3) Saints may have had psychological problems but if so we should not speak of them? 4) Other Saints had psychological problems but not Padre Pio?

My comment was what I genuinely consider to be the most likely explanation. i am happy to be dissuaded from that view on the basis of evidence. But I do not think it is reasonable to give more orders about the things on which i may express a view. I realise that lack of belief is distressing for some Catholics, but I always try to avoid offence while still expressing my opinion. If my post was offensive, I apologise for this. Prehaps you could PM me with some guidance on how to better express my thoughts as a person who does not believe.
It is not only offensive, but also utterly and completely irrelevant. This thread discusses the theological possibility that Lucifer can impersonate the Blessed Virgin Mary. This is not the place for personal speculation about the mental stability of a saint. If you wish to share such opinions, you are certainly welcome to click the “New Thread” button. It is considered impolite to hijack threads and sidetrack them with one’s own agenda. It contributes nothing to the intellectual discourse and - given what you have said of a saint revered by many Catholics - could only serve to inflame. :tsktsk:
 
It seems to me that these experiences are likely to be the result of a psychological problem. Was Padre Pio ever given the opportunity for scientific psychiatric evaluation?
Actually, it is a valid question. The Defender of the Faith asks the same question when he’s trying to prove that someone is not worthy of public veneration.

The answer to your question is, yes.

Padre Pio began to have mystical experiences from the time that he was in his late teeens to early 20s. After the apparition of the stigmata he was subject to many evaluations by physiologists, medical doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, spiritual directors, committees and teams of both believers and non believers all of them experts in some branch of science, philosophy and theology. This actually went on for years. During that time, the superior of the house ordered Padre Pio to avoid all contact with the laity. He was to celebrate mass only for the friars and hear confessions only of the friars.

Padre Pio dearly missed the people whom he served, but when asked by the interviewing psychiatrist why he was so calm, his answer was very simple, “Obedience.”

As the years passed, everyone who examined Padre Pio came away with the same impression. This was a rational and emotionally stable man. He was not psychotic, neurotic, nor masochistic. Like every human being, he had his eccentricities, but nothing that would suggest that he was psychologically unstable. On the contrary, he was found to be quite rational and reasonable in his explanations of his experiences. His behavior was that of an exemplary friar.

Physiologists and physicians who examined him found that there was no way possible that the wound could be self-imposed. There were no signs of chemicals and no signs of trauma to the surrounding tissue or bones. Had someone driven a nail through his hands or feet, there would be trauma to the surrounding areas and possibly nerve damage. There were the wounds, but no trauma and no nerve damage. He never lost mobility or sensation in his extremities, which was unusual…

This is now public information. There are many biographical works on Padre Pio that you can read. Each gives you a piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, the actual medical and psychiatric reports are in confidential files at the Capuchin Franciscan Generalate, where they belong. Like any other person, even after death, his medical evaluations and records are only shared with those who have a need to know or a legal right to review them.

However, many writers had the chance to interview the psychologists, psychiatrists, and other healthcare professionals who examined Padre Pio. Remember, this man died less than 50 years ago. The eye witnesses were alive and some who were very young at the time, are still alive today.

As I said, there are a number of well researched books on Padre Pio. You may want to pick one up. I got a great deal of insight into his personality from a book titled: Secrets of a Soul: Padre Pio’s Letters to His Spiritual Directors and another titled, Padre Pio Under Investigation: The Secret Vatican Files

As I said, no one writer has every detail. You have to go on a scavenger hunt to pick up the bits and pieces. Every writer has a perspective on which he wishes to focus.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
This scares me half to death. This morning I read an excerpt from the internet (christtotheworld.blogspot.com/2010/05/saint-padre-pio-vs-devil.html) that claims that the Cursed One can impersonate Our Lady. Here it is in full:

The Devil attacked Padre Pio with numerous types of temptations. Padre Augustine also confirmed that the Devil appeared to him under many different forms. "The Devil appeared as young girls that danced naked, as a crucifix, as a young friend of the monks, as the Spiritual Father or as the Provincial Father; as Pope Pius X, a Guardian Angel, as St. Francis and as Our Lady.” The Devil has also appeared in his horrible forms with an army of infernal spirits. There were other times when Padre Pio was approached by the Devil but without any apparition. He was troubled with deafening noises and covered with spittle, etc. Padre Pio succeeded in freeing himself from these attacks of the Devil by invoking the name of Jesus.

Do you believe he (the Padre) really saw Lucifer impersonating Our Lady, or was he hallucinating? Or do you think he was lying? I for one cannot think of a single good reason why God would allow this terrible blasphemy by Satan (impersonating the Blessed Mother) and so I was at first disinclined to believe the passage. After recovering from my initial shock I now believe it, though as before I still can’t think of a single reason why God had given permission for this terrible blasphemy. What are your thoughts?
It’s very possible and has happened, observe medjugorje. Either those “seers” are liars or being mislead by the father of lies. Either way, they’re disobedience to apostolic authority and they’re relativistic statements such as “Question: “Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?” “No. The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son.”” is a result of evil. So yes, the devil can do such a thing.
 
2 Corinthians 11:13-15:

“For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.”

My comment is that Padre Pio an other saints were still able to some how tell if it was the devil in a false appearance or not. I would imagine it could be hard to tell but I guess one must listen carefully to the content of the message of the person appearing. And see if it is in accord with God or not.
I agree with you! 👍
 
It’s very possible and has happened, observe medjugorje. Either those “seers” are liars or being mislead by the father of lies. Either way, they’re disobedience to apostolic authority and they’re relativistic statements such as “Question: “Is the Blessed Mother calling all people to be Catholic?” “No. The Blessed Mother says all religions are dear to her and her Son.”” is a result of evil. So yes, the devil can do such a thing.
I personally would think that words which comes out straight from our Blessed Mother’s mouth (I believe it was truly her in this case), especially in an approved vision such as Medjugorje, should be taken with more receptiveness than the teachings of the church, as Mary is properly called the Mother of the Church. She and her Son may very well love all religions but at the same time not excuse rejection of Catholicism from one who acquires knowledge of it.
 
I personally would think that words which comes out straight from our Blessed Mother’s mouth (I believe it was truly her in this case), especially in an approved vision such as Medjugorje, should be taken with more receptiveness than the teachings of the church, as Mary is properly called the Mother of the Church. She and her Son may very well love all religions but at the same time not excuse rejection of Catholicism from one who acquires knowledge of it.
Medjugorje is NOT approved (quite the opposite; it has received a non constat de supernaturalitate), and I think it is still verboten to speak of unapproved apparitions in this forum.

I will stand by the teachings of the Church. No exceptions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top