N
Nine_Two
Guest
That’s atheism in action. Even the ancient Pagans tended to be against abortion.
- Status
C
cyberwolf001
Guest
Why human and why Stonehenge? You know Stonehenge was never a site for such sacrifices right?
N
Nine_Two
Guest
Druids practiced human sacrifice. Stonehenge in modern times is seen by a great number of neo-pagans as a site of utmost importance. The greatest sacrifices always tended to be done at the sites of greatest importance.
It is true there is no evidence of human sacrifice at that spot, which would seem to indicate it likely wasn’t as important to the religion as practitioners make it out to be, which further calls into question the claim of worshiping much as they did.
Of course that’s the additional problem with claiming the “Pagan” title, and claiming to worship like them. They were quite diverse, since “Pagan” was the title given to these religions by their opponents pretty much every native religion of Europe, and many of Africa were described as “pagan”. I would be surprised if it is possible to follow them all faithfully.
C
cyberwolf001
Guest
From what I’ve gathered the Gods don’t seem to mind if the offerings are not human and are done differently than they use to be. Although more data on how the ancients worshiped is coming to light all the time.
That said Paganism doesn’t believe a ritual has to be forever unchanging and unalterable but rather can indeed be changed.
A
Apollos
Guest
love it
C
cyberwolf001
Guest
Thanks added that as signature after I had a few people that kept replying inside the quotes. Was a real headache trying to pull out there responses from mine.
I mean literally it would be two of my sentences then three of theirs. So much so I’ve finally made that my policy.
A
Araninski
Guest
Hey guys I am back.
Thank you for your insights, but I guess nobody got the real intention of the post. One of the issues was the using of names of pagan gods, when we can avoid them, a lot of you have good points. However my intention lied on the Hebrew Calendar, to understand the Word of God and the prophesies from various prophets, we must use this calendar, like the Three Magi did.
God bless.
Thank you for your insights, but I guess nobody got the real intention of the post. One of the issues was the using of names of pagan gods, when we can avoid them, a lot of you have good points. However my intention lied on the Hebrew Calendar, to understand the Word of God and the prophesies from various prophets, we must use this calendar, like the Three Magi did.
God bless.
N
Nine_Two
Guest
The Magi used the Persian calendar, being Zoroastrians.
The calendar being used makes no difference, and changes nothing. If you want to avoid pagan names you must avoid the NT, since it makes reference to Hades and Uranus.
B
Bob_Crowley
Guest
Got any photographs of family in your home? You’d better take them out and destroy them because they are graven images.
Do you have a natural father? Even if you do, you’d better not call him “father”.
Worship on Sunday? Nowhere in the New Testament does it say that the day of worship should be Sunday, but Saturday. It’s merely a church tradition going back to the earliest days, because Christ rose on Sunday.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
When we start mixing up Old Testament prohibitions with the New Covenant, we end up with a very strange set of rules.
Who cares what calendar we use? The sun is going to come up tomorrow whether we call it Monday in August 2010, or Shenee in Av 5770.
Stop majoring in trivia.
C
Corki
Guest
Changing to the Hebrew calendar would make it much harder to follow the Church calendar. I don’t thing we “must” use a calendar that would detract from our duty to worship. The Hebrew calendar is not Christian; the Gregorian calendar is. It seems pretty simple to me.
A
Araninski
Guest
How did the these Magi new that the star in the sky meant something important?, about the coming Messiah, the King of Jews?, how did they even knew there was a king?
Because Daniel was their leader, he thought them everything, and they kept all of it, until the coming of Jesus. Read Daniel 2:1-19.
Daniel 9:24-26:“Seventy weeks of years, or 490 years are decreed upon your people and upon your holy city Jerusalem, to finish and put an end to transgression, to seal up and make full the measure of sin, to purge away and make expiation and reconciliation for sin, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint a holy of holies. Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until the coming of the anointed one, a prince, shall be seven weeks of years, and sixty-two weeks of years; it shall be built again with city square and moat, but in troublous times. And after the 62 weeks of years, shall the anointed one be cut off (killed) and shall have nothing and no one belonging to and defending Him…”
Weeks of years means, 1 Week of Years (7 Hebrew Years), this would mean 62 weeks of years = 463 Hebrew years, 62 Weeks of Years (434 Hebrew Years). This could only mean the Three Wise men used the Hebrew Calendar (NOT the one used today, the one used today has error of calculations, but the one used on those times, search it on Wikipedia.) And why did Daniel gave them this for them to give them the presents Daniel sent.
How the Three Wise men were near Jerusalem when all of this happened? Because they had already set their journey to Jerusalem with anticipation because they knew the star was going to appear.
A
Araninski
Guest
Exodus 20:4
“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.”
Images of my family or art are not idols, they are not representing any god, or thing in heavens above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. However this passage according to you is useless.
Matthew 23:9
“And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”
My father is not my natural father, his my father on the flesh that’s it. My real father is God, but that doesn’t stop you calling the Pope (which means father) naming him the “Holy Father”, but I guess that passage was written for nothing. Another useless passage.
The day of worship doesn’t matter as we should worship God everyday of our lives.
Galatians 4:9-11
“But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”
But just for you to know Sunday was used as a day of worship for the Sun God, this is why Constantine changed it ,the day of the Lord, to Sunday, because he kept adoring the sun god, he supported it.
“Constantine did not patronize Christianity alone, however. After gaining victory in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, a triumphal arch—the Arch of Constantine—was built to celebrate; the arch is decorated with images of Victoria and sacrifices to gods like Apollo, Diana, or Hercules, but contains no Christian symbolism. In 321, Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the “venerable day of the sun”, referencing the esoteric eastern sun-worship which Aurelian had helped introduce, and his coinage still carried the symbols of the sun-cult until 324.” -From Wikipedia.
Romans 3:31
“Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.”
Its not about mixing, its about understanding, what Jesus did. And what was He to fulfill. You can’t mix something which is the same. Mix water with water to make water? Same outcome.
Yes you are right, but the Hebrew Calendar, the first Christians (who by the way were Jews) used this calendar, to be in the time of God.
Acts 2:1
"And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. "
Pentecost is from the Hebrew Calendar, Gentile Christians used inserted it, in the Gregorian Calendar.
Acts 12:3
"And when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to seize Peter also. And those were the days of unleavened bread.
Acts 27:9
“And when much time was spent, and the voyage was now dangerous, because the Fast was now already gone by, Paul admonished them”
All of these Holy Days were observed by them, meaning they used the Hebrew Calendar. We can use the Hebrew Calendar to understand prophecies and the Word of God, like the Three Wise men did.
A
Araninski
Guest
Calendar doesn’t detract you from the duty of worship, you should do it everyday, no need of a calendar for it. The Feast of the Lord are for worship too, we as Christians should also celebrate them. And Hebrew IS Christian. Judaism and Christianity are NOT different religions. Christianity is just the fulfillment of Judaism. We also worship the Hebrew God Yahweh. We also base our beliefs on the Old Testament, all of Paul’s Letters are based on the OT, do you really think the first Christians studied the NT?
1 Timothy 4
"Command and teach these things. Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity.Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to preaching and to teaching. Do not neglect your gift, which was given you through a prophetic message when the body of elders laid their hands on you. "
This Scriptures were not NT.
Acts 17:11
“Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.”
There are far more examples.With the OT the First Christians, preached and thought.
Judaism and Christianity are not different, is an error to say otherwise we worship the God of Abraham.
Galatians 3:29
“If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
God bless.
N
Nine_Two
Guest
Magi is the name for the ruling caste of the Persians, analogous to the Levi in that they were a caste of priests.
My point about the calendar, however, was that all the calendars in that region are very similar, with similar monthly names.
Regarding a “year”, a “year” is the length of time it takes to get through all four seasons. This does not vary based on calendar.
A
AngloCatholic1
Guest
Araninski,
I think we’ve ALL just discovered WHY there has been no Christian renaming of the days of the week. We CAN’T AGREE on a set of names, or any rule of logic to determine them. In any case, it’s not our call. So if you’re REALLY that uptight about using names that are of pagan origin, why not simply turn to the Church for an answer? **As has been stated, the Catholic Church officially uses:
Lord’s Day
Second Day
Third Day
Fourth Day
Fifth Day
Sixth Day
Sabbath
There’s NOTHING pagan about these names.** Furthermore, they are the official names used by the “universal” (rather than any one particular) Christian Church, so they cannot offend ANY Christian beliefs. Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Evangelicals, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Seventh Day Adventists…heck, YOU name the denomination, and I say they should have NO PROBLEM with it. Lastly, it’s not specifically Hebrew, but CHRISTIAN. So WHY NOT USE IT? Just because it’s “Catholic”?
I think we’ve ALL just discovered WHY there has been no Christian renaming of the days of the week. We CAN’T AGREE on a set of names, or any rule of logic to determine them. In any case, it’s not our call. So if you’re REALLY that uptight about using names that are of pagan origin, why not simply turn to the Church for an answer? **As has been stated, the Catholic Church officially uses:
Lord’s Day
Second Day
Third Day
Fourth Day
Fifth Day
Sixth Day
Sabbath
There’s NOTHING pagan about these names.** Furthermore, they are the official names used by the “universal” (rather than any one particular) Christian Church, so they cannot offend ANY Christian beliefs. Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Evangelicals, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Seventh Day Adventists…heck, YOU name the denomination, and I say they should have NO PROBLEM with it. Lastly, it’s not specifically Hebrew, but CHRISTIAN. So WHY NOT USE IT? Just because it’s “Catholic”?
G
GKC
Guest
Yep. In coincidental fact, I just recently used Feria V in a post.
GKC
GKC
Araninski,
I think we’ve ALL just discovered WHY there has been no Christian renaming of the days of the week. We CAN’T AGREE on a set of names, or any rule of logic to determine them. In any case, it’s not our call. So if you’re REALLY that uptight about using names that are of pagan origin, why not simply turn to the Church for an answer? **As has been stated, the Catholic Church officially uses:
Lord’s Day
Second Day
Third Day
Fourth Day
Fifth Day
Sixth Day
Sabbath
There’s NOTHING pagan about these names.** Furthermore, they are the official names used by the “universal” (rather than any one particular) Christian Church, so they cannot offend ANY Christian beliefs. Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Evangelicals, Methodists, Calvinists, Baptists, Anabaptists, Seventh Day Adventists…heck, YOU name the denomination, and I say they should have NO PROBLEM with it. Lastly, it’s not specifically Hebrew, but CHRISTIAN. So WHY NOT USE IT? Just because it’s “Catholic”?
P
Pahoran
Guest
Araninski,
was Paul breaking that commandment in Acts 17:34?
Isn’t Dionysius the name of a pagan god?
Was it okay for Paul to mention it just because it was also the name of a man?
Regards,
Pahoran
was Paul breaking that commandment in Acts 17:34?
Isn’t Dionysius the name of a pagan god?
Was it okay for Paul to mention it just because it was also the name of a man?
Regards,
Pahoran
A
AngloCatholic1
Guest
Araninski,
You might do well to remember the book of Acts, particularly Acts 11 and 12. The book of Acts is filled with this debate, that being whether or not pagans can be saved without adhering to Hebrew laws, customs and – I dare add – calendars. The Lord first gives Peter this vision in Acts 11, when the unclean animals are let down from heaven in a sheet accompanied with the instruction to “Arise, Peter; slay and eat”. When Peter protests, the Lord replies “What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common”. This happened three times, and then Peter was approached by three pagans to hear the Word (verse 11). It then became apparent to the Apostles that God, who had been rejected and crucified by his chosen people, was now inviting pagans into His Kingdom. He was making “clean” that which was formerly “unclean”. As we all know, the Apostles later debated whether or not the pagans (or Hellenes) would have to be circumcised and follow the dietary restrictions set forth in the OT laws. It was clearly determined that they would NOT have to do these things. The Apostles declared “As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.” (Acts 21:25, KJV) There is NO MENTION HERE OF AVOIDING PAGAN CALENDARS. So relax, brother; uttering the name “Wednesday” is NOT the same as worshipping the false god “Woden”!
Furthermore you should also study the opening of Acts 12 very carefully, particularly in the King James Version. **Here the Word CLEARLY indicates that the Lord has “cleansed” the (formerly pagan) festival of Easter! **These passages record Peter’s miraculous release out of prison. Here are the first seven verses. Pay close attention to the passages in bold:
*1Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. **(Then were the days of unleavened bread.) *4And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. 5Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him. 6And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison. 7And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.
First off, there are some who think that the KJV rendering of the Greek “Pascha” as “Easter”, and not “Passover” is a mistake. It’s NOT a mistake. Here’s why. Note that in verse 3 it is stated that Herod had Peter arrested during “the days of unleavened bread”. If you read **Exodus 12:13-18 **you will see that the Passover occurs on the fourteenth day of the first month, and that the “days of unleavened bread” continue for six more days until the twentieth day. This is confirmed in Deut. 16:1-8, where it is clearly stated that the Passover is the meal eaten on the evening of the fourteenth day of the month. The “days of unleavened bread” FOLLOW the Passover. You can also see this in Ezra 6, where I invite you to compare verse 19 (the Passover feast) with verse 22 (the days of unleavened bread).
With his is mind, we KNOW that Peter was arrested AFTER the Passover, during “the days of unleavened bread” (Acts 12:3). Then, in verse 4, it is revealed that Herod intended to bring Peter forth to the people after EASTER. The rendering of the Greek “pascha” here as EASTER has to be CORRECT, for two reasons: Firstly, the Passover has long since passed, as we are now talking about events during “the days of unleavened bread”. Secondly, it is WELL KNOW by all scholars that Herod was a pagan. Herod was NOT observing the Passover (he was too late to do this anyway!), but Easter. He didn’t want this internal “Jewish problem” interfering with his enjoyment of the pagan festival.
Now note verse 6, especially the words “when Herod would have brought him forth”. That can only refer to the day AFTER Easter, as was clearly stated in verse 4. “The same night”, i.e. the night before the day after Easter (otherwise the passage makes no sense)], is EASTER! That might also explain why the soldiers who were guarding Peter were so sleepy (drunk?). THAT DAY, EASTER, IS THE DAY THE LORD DELIVERED PETER OUT OF PRISON!
And the Lord did so, UPON EASTER, only after “prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him”. So, not only should you not be afraid of the term “Easter” (which God has now CLEANSED), but you really ought to be praying for the Pontiff as well! Amen, brother? Amen!
You might do well to remember the book of Acts, particularly Acts 11 and 12. The book of Acts is filled with this debate, that being whether or not pagans can be saved without adhering to Hebrew laws, customs and – I dare add – calendars. The Lord first gives Peter this vision in Acts 11, when the unclean animals are let down from heaven in a sheet accompanied with the instruction to “Arise, Peter; slay and eat”. When Peter protests, the Lord replies “What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common”. This happened three times, and then Peter was approached by three pagans to hear the Word (verse 11). It then became apparent to the Apostles that God, who had been rejected and crucified by his chosen people, was now inviting pagans into His Kingdom. He was making “clean” that which was formerly “unclean”. As we all know, the Apostles later debated whether or not the pagans (or Hellenes) would have to be circumcised and follow the dietary restrictions set forth in the OT laws. It was clearly determined that they would NOT have to do these things. The Apostles declared “As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.” (Acts 21:25, KJV) There is NO MENTION HERE OF AVOIDING PAGAN CALENDARS. So relax, brother; uttering the name “Wednesday” is NOT the same as worshipping the false god “Woden”!
Furthermore you should also study the opening of Acts 12 very carefully, particularly in the King James Version. **Here the Word CLEARLY indicates that the Lord has “cleansed” the (formerly pagan) festival of Easter! **These passages record Peter’s miraculous release out of prison. Here are the first seven verses. Pay close attention to the passages in bold:
*1Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. 2And he killed James the brother of John with the sword. 3And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. **(Then were the days of unleavened bread.) *4And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. 5Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him. 6And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison. 7And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.
First off, there are some who think that the KJV rendering of the Greek “Pascha” as “Easter”, and not “Passover” is a mistake. It’s NOT a mistake. Here’s why. Note that in verse 3 it is stated that Herod had Peter arrested during “the days of unleavened bread”. If you read **Exodus 12:13-18 **you will see that the Passover occurs on the fourteenth day of the first month, and that the “days of unleavened bread” continue for six more days until the twentieth day. This is confirmed in Deut. 16:1-8, where it is clearly stated that the Passover is the meal eaten on the evening of the fourteenth day of the month. The “days of unleavened bread” FOLLOW the Passover. You can also see this in Ezra 6, where I invite you to compare verse 19 (the Passover feast) with verse 22 (the days of unleavened bread).
With his is mind, we KNOW that Peter was arrested AFTER the Passover, during “the days of unleavened bread” (Acts 12:3). Then, in verse 4, it is revealed that Herod intended to bring Peter forth to the people after EASTER. The rendering of the Greek “pascha” here as EASTER has to be CORRECT, for two reasons: Firstly, the Passover has long since passed, as we are now talking about events during “the days of unleavened bread”. Secondly, it is WELL KNOW by all scholars that Herod was a pagan. Herod was NOT observing the Passover (he was too late to do this anyway!), but Easter. He didn’t want this internal “Jewish problem” interfering with his enjoyment of the pagan festival.
Now note verse 6, especially the words “when Herod would have brought him forth”. That can only refer to the day AFTER Easter, as was clearly stated in verse 4. “The same night”, i.e. the night before the day after Easter (otherwise the passage makes no sense)], is EASTER! That might also explain why the soldiers who were guarding Peter were so sleepy (drunk?). THAT DAY, EASTER, IS THE DAY THE LORD DELIVERED PETER OUT OF PRISON!
And the Lord did so, UPON EASTER, only after “prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him”. So, not only should you not be afraid of the term “Easter” (which God has now CLEANSED), but you really ought to be praying for the Pontiff as well! Amen, brother? Amen!
- Status