Dont know why you posted this?Because it directly relates to this topic. If you had read it you’d have seen that for yourself.
The original topic was sweetgrass but it touches on larger issues as have been discussed.Celibacy is not the topic of this thread: Take it here! Or open a new thread…
Your the one that wanted a bible study
Wedding rings are pagan as the day is long. Just Christianized
Thank you
You’re wrong The Catholic Church does indeed denounce these things.
Your fight is not with me its with your fellow Catholics read posts #49,51,52,53 of this thread.
If the basis for one’s doctrines is unbiblical, as I have cited that yours are the see this thread.
The claim is yours, you dont know my doctrines but have assumed. Why would you make such assumptions? The proof of your claim falls squarely on you, and you have failed to provide it.
“Bunk” is not a personal attack or ad hominem. It is a term used to describe fallacious thinking and allegations not supported by the facts. It may reflect on your knowledge of the topic in question, but aside from implying that you are wrong in what you say is not offensive.
Because it directly relates to this topic. If you had read it you’d have seen that for yourself.
Thats bunk
Your statements alleged that when John Paul II went into the Mosque and showed his humble respect for the Islamic scriptures (something all of us could do with more of) that that was some sort of moral failing. I simply carried your logic to it’s end and showed that his presence there cannot be considered the scandal that you’d like to make it be and that his kiss on the Quran was nothing more than respect for another religion and was not the “mistake … plain and simple.” that you’d like to indict it as. There is bits of truth in all different faiths, (including the American non-Catholic ones) and our respect and love for them and those who practice them is never wrong and can (with God’s grace and the work of the Holy Spirit) lead them to saving faith in Christ far quicker than all the polemics and such that most people are into. (This thread itself a fine example).
There are differences between Catholic beliefs and those of the post reformation Christian churches, but not calling false statements and misinformation the bunk that it is is nothing more than false charity that fails to speak the truth in love.
Post on the other threads that I have linked if you wish to get into other issues, but otherwise, like the Mod said, stay on the topic of was the use of sweetgrass incense in a Catholic funeral Mass for a Native American a pagan practice and scandal, or acceptable for Catholics and Christians to participate in with a good conscience.
My, my you want to stay on topic after all you straying?
I have already shown that sweetgrass is nothing but an incense and that as such is has no merit one way or another. Frankly, I think it’s laudable for that parish to do that. Glory Be To God!
Pax vobiscum,
Sola Christo, I was curious as to your response to ChurchMilitant.
Because I dont believe as you, you disparage me? This topic is about alleged pagan inluences in the mass. I have broaden it to include pagan objects or articles. What you have done for all to see is not address either of these issues but to attack me.
CM had asked me if I wore a wedding ring and if I had did I know the pagan origins of it I said I did not on both counts and he linked (or so I thought ) to a discussion on wedding rings, so I thanked him for it. He mistakenly linked to a a celibacy topic.
Sorry about that SC. You’re right of course. I somehow botched that link.
Here’s the article that I meant to give you.
Answer the question then:
If you entered a pagan temple of old, and rescued a virgin maided who was an offering to their pagan God, would you refuse to convert her to Christianity because she was once an “offering” to a pagan God?
Souls are precious in Gods sight. Not so sure sweetgrass is.
You mean like me, my faith, my trust, my worship? All of these have been offered to pagan gods and are now offered to our Holy God. I guess you must not like it when pagans are converted, then.
And that’s one of the basic issues in Christianity. Are all creatures good because they are created by God? Is God involved in redeeming the entire creation? Or does everything exist only to produce a certain number of “souls” who are to be snatched away to another level of existence?
Perhaps if SolaChristo had a more Augustinian view of evil it would be much more easy for SolaChristo to grasp how an item could be “transformed.” In a nutshell, Augustine proposed that evil does not exist in the conrete (like the Manicheans stated), but rather, evil is a distortion of the good. All of creation is good but has become “twisted” and Christ enables us to “untwist” them, whether it be people, sex, money, rings, sweetgrass, whatever. I certainly buy into this idea. One cannot reduce creation to “evil” as evil has no creative power. The funny thing is that the devil did not blatantly lie to Adam and Eve in the garden, he simply distorted/misrepresented the truth. He gave a truthful answer in that he showed “some” of the truth. So too do other religions contain “some” truth and/or “distorted truth” but we are called to guide them in fixing that distortion. Pro-Abortion people are often times seeking to protect and liberate women. Contained within that 'cause are elements of “truth.” We are called to bring them “Truth” where women are truly protected and liberated by ending systemic causes for abortion and seeking to end the institution itself as it hurts women and acts as a barrier to true liberation that is offered by Christ and His Church.
What about the gifts from the Magi for the birth of Jesus? They offered Him gifts they offered to pagans.
I’m sorry… did you miss something in your Bible study?
Matthew 19:10-12
"10 His disciples say unto him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry.11 Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it. "
1st Corinthians 7:6-9
“6 But I speak this by indulgence, not by commandment. 7 For I would that all men were even as myself: but every one hath his proper gift from God; one after this manner, and another after that. 8 But I say to the unmarried, and to the widows: It is good for them if they so continue, even as I. 9 But if they do not contain themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to be burnt.” (Emphasis mine)No one said that they should…You launch a devastating attack on a straw man here. The Catholic Church denounces all such things. But what matter is it as to what incense is burnt at a given Mass? None whatsoever, except to respect the culture of the deceased.
Do you plan to give your fiance an engagement ring SC? Do you plan to exchange wedding rings and wear them? The Catholic Church hasn’t done any such thing and you would do well to get your facts straight before alleging such. If you want me to deal with this allegation open a thread on it and cite specifics so that we can respond to it. Speaking also of unbiblical, so are the doctrines of the Bible alone and faith alone as well as eternal security…but we won’t go there on this thread.
Who do you think you’re talking to? That’s uncalled for!
I have never implied that I feel like a “victim” and take too much “guff”, but the fact is that guys like you are the very ones who make absymally ignorant assertions about what we believe and teach and then flatly refuse to listen to us when we answer your remarks.
Worse still, ALL the information that we wind up giving you is easliy available on the CA ma(name removed by moderator)age library and other good Catholic sites and sources so that if you were really interested you could get these answers without having to actually post to a forum like this. Like this article on Is Catholicism Pagan? which I have no doubt that you have not bothered to read.Does the presence of a believer in a non-Christian place constitute sin? If so ya better stay outta Wal-Mart! Might better not leave your house or apartment! But what if a satan worshipper lived there before you?
Kissing that Quran was nothing more than a expression of respect for another religion’s scriptures. Does that mean that His Holiness and the Catholic Church embrace those beliefs? Absolutely not! No more than you shopping at Walmart means that you approve of all their policies and practices, or your use of A.T.& T. indicates that you approve of their support for gay and lesbian organizations for their employees and their support of Planned Parenthood. Unless of course you really DO?
Pax tecum,
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