Paganism and Catholic Ritual/Traditons.....Similar?

[Subrosa]

:extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy:

LOL!

 

[Subrosa]

I noticed that and went back and corrected it. It should work now.

Nope, not woikin.

Sub

 

[BelFarfalla]

Nope, not woikin.

Sub

This should work

socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/03/protestant-inquisition-reformation.html

 

[Steel_Arrow]

The point is that christianity has used incense from it’s inception. This is plain from the liturgy I posted.

Sub

Here is some more information:

"Moreover, the use of holy water and incense was also no doubt suggested by the similar customs among pagans around them (Catholic Encyclopedia, III, 76).

“When exactly, incense was introduced into the religious services of the church it is not easy to say. During the first four centuries there was no evidence of its use.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, VII, 716)

“The religious use of incense was unknown in the primitive church”. (Catholic Dictionary, 437) :tiphat:

 

[Zooey]

Quantum, with all due respect, the three people you speak of had thier reasons for doing what they did.

Look at the reality of life in the 1500’s. The Pope was a dictator, the bishops enforced his rule, the Inquizition was burning people, among other truly horrible things.

Anyone who was affected by this held a bitter hatred of the Church. Calvin especially was affected by the burning death of John Wesley. (Wesley was burned as a heretic for writing a bible in English using some apocryphal books).

Please reflect on what I have said. Wesley, Luther and Calvin saw the Church in a different light.

Sub

No, now I can’t let this go on…Wesley died in his bed at the ripe old age of 88. He didn’t write a Bible in English, nor any other language. He lived & died an ordained Anglican priest!!
I dont know who you’re referring to, but it was NOT John Wesley!!!

John Hus, maybe?? Although why that should upset Calvin, is more than I know. I never noticed Calvin being upset by much of anything, except of course, people who had the unmitigated gall to disagree with him.

 

[Subrosa]

No, now I can’t let this go on…Wesley died in his bed at the ripe old age of 88. He didn’t write a Bible in English, nor any other language. He lived & died an ordained Anglican priest!!
I dont know who you’re referring to, but it was NOT John Wesley!!!

John Hus, maybe?? Although why that should upset Calvin, is more than I know. I never noticed Calvin being upset by much of anything, except of course, people who had the unmitigated gall to disagree with him.

Hey Zooey -

Please read on. I have been corrected on this issue. I admit my error.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut.

Sub

 

[Subrosa]

Here is some more information:

"Moreover, the use of holy water and incense was also no doubt suggested by the similar customs among pagans around them (Catholic Encyclopedia, III, 76).

“When exactly, incense was introduced into the religious services of the church it is not easy to say. During the first four centuries there was no evidence of its use.” (Catholic Encyclopedia, VII, 716)

“The religious use of incense was unknown in the primitive church”. (Catholic Dictionary, 437) :tiphat:

“Unknown”, as I read it means that no one knows if it was used or not.

However, the earliest known liturgies refer to it’s use.

I will admit that the liturgical passages refering to it’s use may have been added at a later time.

Sub

 

[Contarini]

“Unknown”, as I read it means that no one knows if it was used or not.

No, that’s not what it means, although it’s always hard to prove a negative and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So arguably all we can ever say is that we have no reason to think it was used.

Edwin

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

No, that’s not what it means, although it’s always hard to prove a negative and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So arguably all we can ever say is that we have no reason to think it was used.

Edwin

Incense was used widely in the Near East,both at home and in worship. It was used in Egyptian temples; censers have been found in Syria and Egypt; an incense stand in Assyria; an incense altar in S. Arabia, etc. It is quite possible that the Israelites borrowed the idea of incense altars from the Canaanites, one which was found at Megiddo. For the Israelite altar of incense see Ex. 30:1-10 So what if Israel borrowed it from the pagans, rather than the other way around? I think the intent is what counts. Israel used it in honor of God; they would not have believed that by using incense they were honoring pagan gods.

Incense may not have been used until the 5th century in the Church, but certainly those who read Scripture knew of its use in the Old Testament as well as in Revelation. If it was borrowed from the pagans, it certainly has come down to us with a totally different meaning. For we associate it, not with sacrifice and pagan gods, but with prayers ascending to the Father as described in Psalm 141:2 and Rev. 8:3-4.

 

[Subrosa]

No, that’s not what it means, although it’s always hard to prove a negative and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So arguably all we can ever say is that we have no reason to think it was used.

Edwin

The point I that it wasn’t written about, so we don’t know one way or the other.

Sub

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

No, there is no connection between “Ishtar” and “Easter”. That is what they call “folk etymology”.

Even more precisely, it’s “The Two Babylons”'s etymology - & and is about as well-founded as saying that because​

• Bosco = “bush” in Italian
  therefore, George Bush must be
• a religious founder
• in the Catholic Church
• in the 19th century
• who is alive in 2007
• as President of the USA

• & must therefore have discovered time travel, or the elixir of immortality, or both.

=======

From philologos.org/__eb-ttb/sect32.htm

• Then look at Easter. What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, as pronounced by the people Nineveh, was evidently identical with that now in common use in this country. That name, as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is** Ishtar**.
  …
• If Baal was thus worshipped in Britain, it will not be difficult to believe that his consort Astarte was also adored by our ancestors, and that from Astarte, whose name in Nineveh was Ishtar, the religious solemnities of April, as now practised, are called by the name of Easter–that month, among our Pagan ancestors, having been called Easter-monath.

=======

As a whole this is badly wrong. Astarte was of very similar character to Ishtar, but is not entirely the same goddess.

Besides, why does the evil Babylonio-Assyrian Vatican always write of Pascha, never of Easter ? Or did the first RCs speak English ? Maybe England is really in Italy…

 

[blacktiger057]

It’s actually really sad. I read in a religion magazine once that 85% of conversion techniques among Christians included fear and violence. Today, violence isn’t legal anymore, but fear(like the fear of hell and rapture) is still used today.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The view is not supported by historical fact. Protestantism did not exist in Spain at the time of the Inquisition. Though, had there been such, they would have held to tribunal. Those that could be saved would be given every opportunity to rejoin the kata holos church.

The Protestant Inquisition was primarily directed against Catholics and “witches.” So the assertion made is incorrect, as the primary aim of Protestant Inquisitions was the elimination of the Catholic Church and those deemed “witches.”

William Monter, in “Frontiers of Heresy”, gives the date of the first burning of a Protestant by the SI as 1539.​

The book is admirably free of anti- or pro-Inquisition bias, and is about 10 years old. It is also a good read.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

It’s actually really sad. I read in a religion magazine once that 85% of conversion techniques among Christians included fear and violence. Today, violence isn’t legal anymore, but fear(like the fear of hell and rapture) is still used today.

fear = a bad motive for conversion​

 

[blacktiger057]

fear = a bad motive for conversion​

Yep. ANd that is why 40% of Chrisitian Americans don’t know the names of the first four gospels.