N
NotTooSmart
Guest
Of which I am proudly one.
The problem here is that this statement is a really gross simplification. You are smearing all with the characteristics of a few.
Paganism link to Catholicism, Protestant stop preaching this LIE!
- Status
The problem here is that this statement is a really gross simplification. You are smearing all with the characteristics of a few.
M
MusicMan
Guest
At least I’m not holding members of the ELCA accountable for the statements of the SA.
N
Natassia
Guest
All I know is that in my mother’s country (Portugal) most people are Roman Catholic over there, and some of their Roman Catholic celebrations have a distinct pagan flavor. I suppose it all depends on the culture whether it be European, Latin American, North American, etc.
However, I have the biggest issue with the papacy and the over-emphasis of Mary. I’m not saying these things are pagan at all…but they elevate mere humans to a level I am not comfortable with. That’s not to say they are evil or something…but I most definitely don’t believe they are necessary for Christians to be saved and earn rewards in heaven.
And the rosary beads and Lent? These are extrabiblical items that may not have risen directly from paganism but they most assuredly are not Biblical. These are simply man-made traditions…and ultimately, isn’t that what paganism is? Paganism is purely a human invention–created methods of worship (whether that be human sacrifice, drinking of blood, etc.) for a god or gods that do not exist. The only difference between Catholicism’s rosary beads and the prayer beads of ancient pagan religions is that Catholics believe in one particular God and the pagans believe in different ones.
If something did not come directly from God (like Lent or rosary beads), then ultimately it came from fallible humans…which makes them unnecessary traditions. Catholics are insulted by Protestants’ use of the word pagan, and most likely the word is being misused; however, there’s no need to get into a tissy about it considering there are many Catholic traditions that are not Biblically-mandated and originated from men who may or may not have been guided by the Holy Spirit at the time.
However, I have the biggest issue with the papacy and the over-emphasis of Mary. I’m not saying these things are pagan at all…but they elevate mere humans to a level I am not comfortable with. That’s not to say they are evil or something…but I most definitely don’t believe they are necessary for Christians to be saved and earn rewards in heaven.
And the rosary beads and Lent? These are extrabiblical items that may not have risen directly from paganism but they most assuredly are not Biblical. These are simply man-made traditions…and ultimately, isn’t that what paganism is? Paganism is purely a human invention–created methods of worship (whether that be human sacrifice, drinking of blood, etc.) for a god or gods that do not exist. The only difference between Catholicism’s rosary beads and the prayer beads of ancient pagan religions is that Catholics believe in one particular God and the pagans believe in different ones.
If something did not come directly from God (like Lent or rosary beads), then ultimately it came from fallible humans…which makes them unnecessary traditions. Catholics are insulted by Protestants’ use of the word pagan, and most likely the word is being misused; however, there’s no need to get into a tissy about it considering there are many Catholic traditions that are not Biblically-mandated and originated from men who may or may not have been guided by the Holy Spirit at the time.
P
prochrist1
Guest
You say no paganism ?
what about for starters holy water: newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm
Holy water is now permanently retained at the entrance of Catholic churches, blessed at the first of each lunar month, and sprinkled over patrons as they enter. This practice was created to supplant the pagan celebration of the New Moon, according to canon 65 of the Council of Constantinople (691). According to the Catholic Encyclopedia
what about for starters holy water: newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm
Holy water is now permanently retained at the entrance of Catholic churches, blessed at the first of each lunar month, and sprinkled over patrons as they enter. This practice was created to supplant the pagan celebration of the New Moon, according to canon 65 of the Council of Constantinople (691). According to the Catholic Encyclopedia
M
MusicMan
Guest
History is replete with local traditions being adopted by secular and sacred authorities. It is no surprise that as the Church spread, it took many local traditions and wove them into its own.
Abrahamic History is also replete with a need for ritual purity, and Christian Baptism grew out of this purification. John the Baptist was purifying people in the Jordan, including our Lord. Holy water, used at Baptism, when sprinkled on or used by the Faithful remains a purifying agent that is part of millenia old tradition and serves to remind us of our Baptisms. I am not surprised that Pagan History also has water as a purifying agent and in the wisdom of the Church, she said, “Water? Well, we purify with it too! Come join the Church! We’re more alike than you think.”
Abrahamic History is also replete with a need for ritual purity, and Christian Baptism grew out of this purification. John the Baptist was purifying people in the Jordan, including our Lord. Holy water, used at Baptism, when sprinkled on or used by the Faithful remains a purifying agent that is part of millenia old tradition and serves to remind us of our Baptisms. I am not surprised that Pagan History also has water as a purifying agent and in the wisdom of the Church, she said, “Water? Well, we purify with it too! Come join the Church! We’re more alike than you think.”
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
Can you please get you facts right B4 you put out all you hog wash
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Ha ha you’re right! “Sprinkled over the patrons as they enter…” where did he get that from?
Z
Zundrah
Guest
Who said that catholics were pagan?
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
Well I have been a Cathloic for 74 years and I never seen anyone sprinked over the so call patrons as they enter,may I ask when yiu saw this,was in a cathloic church and how many times a month do you read a bible,read I think its Numbers 5:17 I think this is one verse if it is not Iam sorry
B
Bill_Pick
Guest
Holy water is now permanently retained at the entrance of Catholic churches, blessed at the first of each lunar month, and sprinkled over patrons as they enter. This practice was created to supplant the pagan celebration of the New Moon, according to canon 65 of the Council of Constantinople (691). According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the earliest modern uses of holy water appear in the ninth century. That, coupled with the New Testament’s silence regarding the practice and use of holy water, it can be concluded that the tradition of holy water was created for the sole purpose of putting a pagan ceremony out of commission, using a few scant biblical references to water for purification
This did not come from the Catholic Encyclopedia it was from Cram and this person needs to know he/she can be banned
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
What’s CRAM?
So, em, are you convinced that in my Lutheran Church we worship Easter bunnies and Easter eggs along with the resurrection? Surely you jest.
To the extent that, perhaps, the Church enticed pagans to convert by adopting some of their trappings is probably a good thing. There are no references to eggs and bunnies in the Lutheran Confessions.
I would be interested in how you think paganism has effected doctrine, and how you might defend against the charge, which I have heard in the past, that the Book of Mormon is pagan.
Jon
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Holy water is now permanently retained at the entrance of Catholic churches, blessed at the first of each lunar month, and sprinkled over patrons as they enter. This practice was created to supplant the pagan celebration of the New Moon, according to canon 65 of the Council of Constantinople (691). According to the Catholic EncyclopediaReally? If holy water is pagan then you better throw out your Bible my friend. I thought you Bible only type Christians only accept what you find in the Word of God? Looks like some of you need to read it for yourselves and read it a lot more carefully.
Numbers 5:[17] and the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.
BTW, how many of you married n-Cs are wearing a wedding ring? Guess where that came from?
C
Church_Militant
Guest
This is something brief and to the point that I put together about 5 years ago.
THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE
The Historic Facts:
Is it true that Constantine was a pagan and used his influence to corrupt the Catholic Church?
Raise Up A Child…
Constantine was raised with Christian beliefs by his mother St. Helena although he delayed his baptism until he was on his deathbed. It seems clear that he had enough faith to seek salvation in Christ, knowing that he was facing eternity and his soul was in the balance
Your Young Men Will See Visions…
After seeing a vision in which he was told that he would conquer under the sign of the Christian cross, he adopted it as his standard and his entire army carried it into battle against the pagan general Maxentius and he won control of the empire in 312 AD.
Freedom At Last…
The following year Constantine signed the Edict of Milan (sometimes known as the Edict of Tolerance) that officially ended the persecution of the Church. It’s hard to understand how anyone can believe that Constantine, (who died a Christian despite his delay) would have paganized the early Catholic Church.
Julian Doesn’t Keep The Faith.
Forty-eight years later, in 361 AD, the emperor Julian the Apostate launched a persecution of the Church in an attempt to bring back paganism. Why would that have been necessary if Constantine had already corrupted the Catholic Church?
History Tells All
Some careful research and study of the first 300 years of Christianity will reveal that Catholic doctrines such as the Eucharist, Apostolic authority, and the pope as the successor of Peter were believed from the very beginning of Christianity and certainly were not the result of any pagan influence under Constantine.
In Fact
Christianity has been called Catholic in Acts 9:31 (Greek: “ekklesia katholos”) and at least from 107AD when Ignatius, the Bishop of the Church in Antioch, used it in one of his letters to another church which indicates that by that time the original Christian Church was already well known as the Catholic Church in order to distinguish Christ’s Church from heretical groups. Keep in mind that that same church in Antioch was where we were all first called Christians as recorded in Acts 11:26. (The Faith of the Early Fathers, William A. Jurgens, Collegeville, Minn.; Liturgical Press, 1970. p.25, #65)
THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE
The Historic Facts:
Is it true that Constantine was a pagan and used his influence to corrupt the Catholic Church?
Raise Up A Child…
Constantine was raised with Christian beliefs by his mother St. Helena although he delayed his baptism until he was on his deathbed. It seems clear that he had enough faith to seek salvation in Christ, knowing that he was facing eternity and his soul was in the balance
Your Young Men Will See Visions…
After seeing a vision in which he was told that he would conquer under the sign of the Christian cross, he adopted it as his standard and his entire army carried it into battle against the pagan general Maxentius and he won control of the empire in 312 AD.
Freedom At Last…
The following year Constantine signed the Edict of Milan (sometimes known as the Edict of Tolerance) that officially ended the persecution of the Church. It’s hard to understand how anyone can believe that Constantine, (who died a Christian despite his delay) would have paganized the early Catholic Church.
Julian Doesn’t Keep The Faith.
Forty-eight years later, in 361 AD, the emperor Julian the Apostate launched a persecution of the Church in an attempt to bring back paganism. Why would that have been necessary if Constantine had already corrupted the Catholic Church?
History Tells All
Some careful research and study of the first 300 years of Christianity will reveal that Catholic doctrines such as the Eucharist, Apostolic authority, and the pope as the successor of Peter were believed from the very beginning of Christianity and certainly were not the result of any pagan influence under Constantine.
In Fact
Christianity has been called Catholic in Acts 9:31 (Greek: “ekklesia katholos”) and at least from 107AD when Ignatius, the Bishop of the Church in Antioch, used it in one of his letters to another church which indicates that by that time the original Christian Church was already well known as the Catholic Church in order to distinguish Christ’s Church from heretical groups. Keep in mind that that same church in Antioch was where we were all first called Christians as recorded in Acts 11:26. (The Faith of the Early Fathers, William A. Jurgens, Collegeville, Minn.; Liturgical Press, 1970. p.25, #65)
C
Church_Militant
Guest
This is something brief and to the point that I put together about 5 years ago.
THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE
The Historic Facts:
Is it true that Constantine was a pagan and used his influence to corrupt the Catholic Church?
Raise Up A Child…
Constantine was raised with Christian beliefs by his mother St. Helena although he delayed his baptism until he was on his deathbed. It seems clear that he had enough faith to seek salvation in Christ, knowing that he was facing eternity and his soul was in the balance
Your Young Men Will See Visions…
After seeing a vision in which he was told that he would conquer under the sign of the Christian cross, he adopted it as his standard and his entire army carried it into battle against the pagan general Maxentius and he won control of the empire in 312 AD.
Freedom At Last…
The following year Constantine signed the Edict of Milan (sometimes known as the Edict of Tolerance) that officially ended the persecution of the Church. It’s hard to understand how anyone can believe that Constantine, (who died a Christian despite his delay) would have paganized the early Catholic Church.
Julian Doesn’t Keep The Faith.
Forty-eight years later, in 361 AD, the emperor Julian the Apostate launched a persecution of the Church in an attempt to bring back paganism. Why would that have been necessary if Constantine had already corrupted the Catholic Church?
History Tells All
Some careful research and study of the first 300 years of Christianity will reveal that Catholic doctrines such as the Eucharist, Apostolic authority, and the pope as the successor of Peter were believed from the very beginning of Christianity and certainly were not the result of any pagan influence under Constantine.
In Fact
Christianity has been called Catholic in Acts 9:31 (Greek: “ekklesia katholos”) and at least from 107AD when Ignatius, the Bishop of the Church in Antioch, used it in one of his letters to another church which indicates that by that time the original Christian Church was already well known as the Catholic Church in order to distinguish Christ’s Church from heretical groups. Keep in mind that that same church in Antioch was where we were all first called Christians as recorded in Acts 11:26. (The Faith of the Early Fathers, William A. Jurgens, Collegeville, Minn.; Liturgical Press, 1970. p.25, #65)
THE PAGANIZATION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH UNDER CONSTANTINE
The Historic Facts:
Is it true that Constantine was a pagan and used his influence to corrupt the Catholic Church?
Raise Up A Child…
Constantine was raised with Christian beliefs by his mother St. Helena although he delayed his baptism until he was on his deathbed. It seems clear that he had enough faith to seek salvation in Christ, knowing that he was facing eternity and his soul was in the balance
Your Young Men Will See Visions…
After seeing a vision in which he was told that he would conquer under the sign of the Christian cross, he adopted it as his standard and his entire army carried it into battle against the pagan general Maxentius and he won control of the empire in 312 AD.
Freedom At Last…
The following year Constantine signed the Edict of Milan (sometimes known as the Edict of Tolerance) that officially ended the persecution of the Church. It’s hard to understand how anyone can believe that Constantine, (who died a Christian despite his delay) would have paganized the early Catholic Church.
Julian Doesn’t Keep The Faith.
Forty-eight years later, in 361 AD, the emperor Julian the Apostate launched a persecution of the Church in an attempt to bring back paganism. Why would that have been necessary if Constantine had already corrupted the Catholic Church?
History Tells All
Some careful research and study of the first 300 years of Christianity will reveal that Catholic doctrines such as the Eucharist, Apostolic authority, and the pope as the successor of Peter were believed from the very beginning of Christianity and certainly were not the result of any pagan influence under Constantine.
In Fact
Christianity has been called Catholic in Acts 9:31 (Greek: “ekklesia katholos”) and at least from 107AD when Ignatius, the Bishop of the Church in Antioch, used it in one of his letters to another church which indicates that by that time the original Christian Church was already well known as the Catholic Church in order to distinguish Christ’s Church from heretical groups. Keep in mind that that same church in Antioch was where we were all first called Christians as recorded in Acts 11:26. (The Faith of the Early Fathers, William A. Jurgens, Collegeville, Minn.; Liturgical Press, 1970. p.25, #65)
H
Hisalone
Guest
Scholars debate whether Constantine adopted his mother St. Helena’s Christianity in his youth, or whether he adopted it gradually over the course of his life.[196]. Constantine would retain the title of pontifex maximus until his death, a title emperors bore as heads of the pagan priesthood, as would his Christian successors on to Gratian (r. 375–83). According to Christian writers, Constantine was over 40 when he finally declared himself a Christian, writing to Christians to make clear that he believed he owed his successes to the protection of the Christian High God alone.[197] Throughout his rule, Constantine supported the Church financially, built basilicas, granted privileges to clergy (e.g. exemption from certain taxes), promoted Christians to high office, and returned property confiscated during the Diocletianic persecution.[198] His most famous building projects include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and Old Saint Peter’s Basilica.
Constantine did not patronize Christianity alone, however. After gaining victory in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, a triumphal arch—the Arch of Constantine—was built to celebrate; the arch is decorated with images of Victoria and sacrifices to gods like Apollo, Diana, or Hercules, but contains no Christian symbolism. In 321, Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the “venerable day of the sun”, referencing the esoteric eastern sun-worship which Aurelian had helped introduce, and his coinage still carried the symbols of the sun-cult until 324. Even after the pagan gods had disappeared from the coinage, Christian symbols appear only as Constantine’s personal attributes: the chi rho between his hands or on his labarum, but never on the coin itself.[199] Even when Constantine dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millennium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I
Constantine did not patronize Christianity alone, however. After gaining victory in the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, a triumphal arch—the Arch of Constantine—was built to celebrate; the arch is decorated with images of Victoria and sacrifices to gods like Apollo, Diana, or Hercules, but contains no Christian symbolism. In 321, Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the “venerable day of the sun”, referencing the esoteric eastern sun-worship which Aurelian had helped introduce, and his coinage still carried the symbols of the sun-cult until 324. Even after the pagan gods had disappeared from the coinage, Christian symbols appear only as Constantine’s personal attributes: the chi rho between his hands or on his labarum, but never on the coin itself.[199] Even when Constantine dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millennium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I
H
Hisalone
Guest
Gothicus had claimed the divine protection of Apollo-Sol Invictus. In mid-310, two years before the victory at the Milvian Bridge, Constantine reportedly experienced the publicly announced vision in which Apollo-Sol Invictus appeared to him with omens of success. Thereafter the reverses of his coinage were dominated for several years by his “companion, the unconquered Sol” — **the inscriptions read SOLI INVICTO COMITI. The depiction represents Apollo with a solar halo, Helios-like, and the globe in his hands. **In the 320s Constantine has a halo of his own. There are also coins depicting Apollo driving the chariot of the Sun on a shield Constantine is holding and another in 312 shows the Christian chi-rho on a helmet Constantine is wearing.
Constantine was also known for being ruthless with his political enemies, deposing the Eastern Roman Emperor Licinius, his brother-in-law, by strangulation in 325 even though **he had publicly promised not to execute him **upon Licinius’ surrender in 324. In 326, **Constantine executed first his eldest son Crispus and a few months later his own second wife Fausta. **(Crispus was the only known son of Constantine by his first wife Minervina). There are rumours of step-mother and step-son having had an affair which caused Constantine’s jealousy. The rumours were reported however by 5th century historian Zosimus and 12th century historian Joannes Zonaras. Their sources are not stated.
mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/Bio/ConstantineI.html
Constantine was also known for being ruthless with his political enemies, deposing the Eastern Roman Emperor Licinius, his brother-in-law, by strangulation in 325 even though **he had publicly promised not to execute him **upon Licinius’ surrender in 324. In 326, **Constantine executed first his eldest son Crispus and a few months later his own second wife Fausta. **(Crispus was the only known son of Constantine by his first wife Minervina). There are rumours of step-mother and step-son having had an affair which caused Constantine’s jealousy. The rumours were reported however by 5th century historian Zosimus and 12th century historian Joannes Zonaras. Their sources are not stated.
mlahanas.de/Greeks/Medieval/Bio/ConstantineI.html
H
Hisalone
Guest
The OP was started as a response to a post of mine on another thread.
To the OP me thinks you protest too much.
To the OP me thinks you protest too much.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Yeah, right. The FACT is that there was already a pope in Constantine’s time so he couldn’t have been any such thing.
As for his conversion, it was before there was any development of confession and so a great many converts chose to wait until near death to be baptized. He was one of them.
P
prochrist1
Guest
ofcourse i only follow the bible but also keep up with what my church belives because my church uses only the bible the minute my church brings out new scriptures or something that.doesnt line up with the word of god im out of thereReally? If holy water is pagan then you better throw out your Bible my friend. I thought you Bible only type Christians only accept what you find in the Word of God? Looks like some of you need to read it for yourselves and read it a lot more carefully.
Numbers 5:[17] and the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.
BTW, how many of you married n-Cs are wearing a wedding ring? Guess where that came from?
Lets see what else i dable with arts and technology, cooking, etc… Basically hobbies
That help me reflect being with god and living life to the fullest really
- Status